Injury Info on Sarge

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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby Kraftster on Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:55 am

Rossi's article in the Trib today is a complete joke. This guy is ridiculous. No one in the hockey world has a timeline and he quotes some random Doctor and puts a timeline specific to Gonchar in his title?? He seriously needs to be reigned in.

I'm pretty shocked to see the downplaying of this injury that is bordering on insulting the impact that Gonchar, the defenseman who finished FOURTH in Norris voting last season, has on this team. I'm all for staying optimistic and looking to the guys that can help fill the void, but, the Penguins simply will not be as good a team without Gonchar.

Henry Hank: I'm surprised that you even care to get Gonchar back during the playoffs based on your review. Honestly, I always consider your insight to be backed up and very well thought out, but, I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of how little the loss of Gonchar will mean. There's no guarantee that the other guys in the line up can come together to replace all of the things that Gonchar brings to the team. Sure, the PP is potent enough to probably remain top 10 without Gonchar, but, its still speculation at this point to think that it will click the same without Gonchar. Even if Malkin ends up playing that point well, that means that he's not wherever else he would be on the powerplay. What about the combination of his defensive game and his first pass ability. Sure most of Gonchar's points come on the powerplay, but, that's true of basically every high scoring defenseman. How many plays would Gonchar get the third assist on a play that started because of a difficult pass to start things moving out of the zone? Its everything that Gonchar brings in one player that will be missed. Even assume that Goligoski has passing skills equal to Gonchar, he won't be as strong in his own zone; if Scuderi or Eaton are better defensively, they won't be able to break things out of the zone on the same level; etc.
I do agree that the Pens are a playoff team without him, but, things get a whole lot more difficult. There'll be a lot less room for error in a conference that has about eleven or twelve teams good enough to make the playoffs.

Eisman: I don't even know what to say. Again, based on this review, maybe we'd be better without him? No one on this team is a comparable replacement -- powerplay qb or otherwise. Conservative? I don't agree, but, even if he is, 50 points for seven straight seasons, I think I can handle that.

I guess we'll see, but, I definitely tend to agree with Kenny when he says that Gonch is the straw that stirs the drink.
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby gregor on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:07 am

good ju ju to the potter.

Image
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby penny lane on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:19 am

After the way the penguins responded last year to long absences by the 2 players who, (sid/flower) most would have thought it would kill the pens chances of success, we are trying to have hope that other players are ready for a prominent role on the team.
Lord knows I've said my mea culpa to Sergei since 4/07, he was best defenseman in the league not named Lidstrom last year.

All I know is that when presented with challenges~ Sid and Evgeni have met all. Flower too, will have to raise his game to help the defense.
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:28 am

penny lane wrote:After the way the penguins responded last year to long absences by the 2 players who, (sid/flower) most would have thought it would kill the pens chances of success, we are trying to have hope that other players are ready for a prominent role on the team.


Of course when sid and MAF were hurt, Malkin was mans against boys, and Ty Conklin played way, way, waaaaaaaay better than anyone could have possibly expected. Can the penguins count on someone in the defensive corps to step up and fill those shoes? I don't know.
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:39 am

The Pens have Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Sykora, Satan, Letang, Goligoski, Sydor, and eventually Whitney aside from Gonchar. They have such a ridiculous amount of offensive talent. They will have a strong PP without him. It may take them some time to adjust without him, but nobody can convince me that with all the other talent they have, they absolutely need Gonchar on the PP to be successful. Gonchar's a very good PP quarterback, but he's a luxury on this team. He's not essential. They're a better overall team when they have him, which is why they need him back for the playoffs. But I'll stick by what I said. The PP will get by without him. They'll miss what he brings on D more than anything. He's improved, but if that's what you miss the most about him, you're not all that bad off.
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby bhaw on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:53 am

Krafster... I didn't interpret anyone as saying we are BETTER without Gonchar. I think most everyone believes that especially this year, we can replace what we lose in some of is aspects.

PP: See HH's posts as that is what he is mostly referring to. They really just need one dman to step up as the off side point man (where Whitney usually was). Malkin appears to be the guy who will be taking over the PP QB spot at the moment. And if he cycles the puck low, Sid can cover for him. I don't get overly worried about PP efficiency when someone tells me Gonchar is replaced by Malkin or Crosby.

Defense: We are lucky to have so much depth this year that we can get guys who are at least capable in his spot. None of them will be as good as Gonchar, but it's not like we are going from Gonchar to Noah Welch. We have guys who can play.

And I agree that the one spot that will hurt the most is the breakout. Gorwing pains with Letang and Goligoski will be inevitable in making the right decisions to get the puck out of the defensive end. I expect it to be a little ugly to start. They just don't have the experience Gonchar has to make the right decisions as often. Luckily the younger guys should have the aid of guys like Gill, Sydor, and Orpik to help them out. And having Malkin, Crosby, Satan, etc on the receiving end of the passes doesn't hurt.

Again... I don't think anyone is saying "good riddance, this team can finally flourish." The Pens are just fortunate to have NHL ready guys ready to fill in the empty spots. Losing Gonchar doesn't kill our season.
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby Sieve70 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:29 pm

Speaking to the injury...

If they're talking surgery for a dislocated shoulder, it's more than likely an injury to the rotator cuff.

Depending on the severity of the injury - is it "just" torn or is it detached - the options are:

"Just" torn:
1. Rehab - may or may not work - figure about 6 weeks if it works
2. Surgery - as a vet of this option, it's about 2-3 months of rehab before before contact. I got through in 2 months, but my sports activities, while including hockey, doesn't involve taking the kind of pounding an NHL defenseman does...

Detached:
Surgery - this is the "up to 6 months" prognosis... let's just hope it's not detached...
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby shmenguin on Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:19 pm

i still see us having a top 5 power play without sarge. though all you people wanting malkin off the point...good luck.

our short handed goals against will go up, but i'd be foaming at the mouth to see the power play with sid and geno at the point (sykora as sniper, miro as down low puck controller and staal in front).
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby bhaw on Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:54 pm

shmenguin wrote:i still see us having a top 5 power play without sarge. though all you people wanting malkin off the point...good luck.

our short handed goals against will go up, but i'd be foaming at the mouth to see the power play with sid and geno at the point (sykora as sniper, miro as down low puck controller and staal in front).


I agree that now Malkin isn't going anywhere except to Gonchar's spot where he will have better shot opportunities.

I think the 5 forwards may be an option when we need goals, but otherwise I see Letang taking that other point position (or Sydor if he's in the starting line up). I definitely expect to see 5 forwards out there at times, just not all the time.
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Re: Injury Info on Sarge

Postby shmenguin on Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:32 pm

bhaw wrote:
shmenguin wrote:i still see us having a top 5 power play without sarge. though all you people wanting malkin off the point...good luck.

our short handed goals against will go up, but i'd be foaming at the mouth to see the power play with sid and geno at the point (sykora as sniper, miro as down low puck controller and staal in front).


I agree that now Malkin isn't going anywhere except to Gonchar's spot where he will have better shot opportunities.

I think the 5 forwards may be an option when we need goals, but otherwise I see Letang taking that other point position (or Sydor if he's in the starting line up). I definitely expect to see 5 forwards out there at times, just not all the time.


sydor is serviceable and good on unit 2, but i'd rather see 2 forwards on the point over him. i think you need recovery speed at that spot in case you flub the puck.

letang could be a shoe-in for left point, but i don't know if they want to put that on his shoulders yet.

lot's of teams have had 5 forward units with worse players. why not us?
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