Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:56 am

newarenanow wrote:This sucks.

At least now we can see what this team will look like if LGP posters were the GM and traded Gonchar two years ago and Whitney last year.


We don't have Afi and Kotalik though. :cry:
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Kraftster on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:01 pm

I have to thank KG and MCM for bringing some reason to this thread toward the end here. There's nothing wrong with admitting that this is an enormous loss. Let's get beyond the powerplay, because, as has been stated, there's still a ton of talent on the PP unit, and, although I think the impact of Gonchar on the PP is being slightly undervalued by a majority of people, this is hardly the spot where the loss of Gonchar will be felt the most. It is the combination of everything Gonchar brings in one body that will be missed. You can try to piece together the things that Gonchar brings to the table, but, if you replace his defensive play with Scuderi or Gill, you lose that strong first pass, if you try to replace his outlet pass with Sydor (although far from equal), you lose his defensive play. Losing Whitney and Gonchar will hurt the most when it comes to getting out of the zone. Orpik has an underrated first pass, and obviously Letang and Goligoski should be fine in this department as well, but, everyone else is suspect in this regard. That is where the Pens will miss Gonchar the most, in an area that involves 3/4 of his icetime each night, not the 1/4 on the powerplay. Look at the Flyers last year in the playoffs without Coburn and Timonen. They simply could not start their offense with such a weak back end. I do think the Pens under Therrien play a better systematic game than the Flyers under Stevens, so, I think that this will help to soften the blow, but, I think that people are dismissing this injury by focusing on the wrong area of Gonchar's game.

Yes, we all know the Pens overcame adversity last year, and, while I suppose that gives a little bit of reason to believe that they can do it again, these injuries (Whitney AND Gonchar) are of a different variety. They came at a different time, and they impact a weaker area of the team than the loss of Crosby. Arguably the loss of Fleury was to the weakest area of the team (depth wise), but, you can't count on Herculean efforts every season like the one Conklin delivered last year. I'm NOT saying the world is ending. I'm NOT saying that the Pens won't make the playoffs. I'm simply being reasonable and looking at this enormous loss rationally. Optimism is fine, but, so is being realistic, and it shouldn't be pegged as whining or pouting.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby KG on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:15 pm

Shero states his intentions:

“As a group, our defensemen are going to have to step up – and that creates an opportunity for some players,” Shero said. “Kris has played at this level. Alex had a good year last year in the AHL. We’re going to give them opportunities, but we don’t want to put undue pressure on them. We’ll continue to evaluate our team as we go along.”

penguins.nhl.com

Start with what we have, then make changes if need be...
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Hawkeynut on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:21 pm

At least now they can hide behind the fact that their 2 best defenceman were on the shelf as to the reason why the team will have a Stanley Cup hangover.

That being said.

I don't believe this team will have said hangover and I believe they are more than capable of dealing with this blow to their D. Of all their positions the Pens were almost too deep on D. Now if this double injury happened to their wingers... then I would be skeptical of their success.

Any team with the calibre of players of Sydney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin on it alone has a better chance to win than 50% of all the teams out there.

We will just see what Go-Go and Letang are made of.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:56 pm

Yes, we all know the Pens overcame adversity last year, and, while I suppose that gives a little bit of reason to believe that they can do it again, these injuries (Whitney AND Gonchar) are of a different variety.


Yes, they're going to be more easy to overcome. Losing Crosby and Fleury was enormous. The Pens did not have capable depth on paper to replace them. Erik Christensen was second line center when Crosby went down. They basically had nothing after Malone-Malkin-Sykora. Conklin was great for a dozen games and then became Conklin. That was a far more dire situation than losing a couple defensemen, even if they might be your top two D. They've still got seven NHL D. They've still got guys with immense skill who can play on the PP. They've still got veterans who are capable on D. I don't think anyone's saying they're not going to miss Gonchar, but it's not like it's a we miss him so much we're going to miss the playoffs thing. I don't know why Whitney's even getting mentioned here. People almost universally wanted him scratched through the RS into the first few rounds of the playoffs. Even in the Finals people wanted him scratched.

I think I'm repeating myself a lot so I'm going to end it on this because I'm not budging and I doubt the other side is. The PP and PK won't skip a beat with Letang and Goligoski to take over and Eaton turning to kill penalties. They'll miss his D on even strength, but I think Gonchar's being a bit overrated here, maybe just as much as his poor play was exaggerated before. Nobody talks about Gonchar's D if he's not a 60 point scorer and he never even gets mentioned as anything close to a Norris candidate. I'm not saying he's bad, but the guy isn't one of the best defensive guys out there. Definitely one of the best two-way guys. But my contention is that they're going to miss him most on ES, and if that's the area they'll have the hardest time filling, they'll be fine. They'll still be a playoff team, they'll still be one of the top teams in the East, and they'll have him back when the games really matter.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby swflyers8 on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:31 pm

Bummer about Gonchar, I'm really broken up about it. :)
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:32 pm

KG wrote:Shero states his intentions:

“As a group, our defensemen are going to have to step up – and that creates an opportunity for some players,” Shero said. “Kris has played at this level. Alex had a good year last year in the AHL. We’re going to give them opportunities, but we don’t want to put undue pressure on them. We’ll continue to evaluate our team as we go along.”

penguins.nhl.com

Start with what we have, then make changes if need be...


What? You mean Shero isn't crying about missing out on Schneider? Shocking...

I agree completely. Evaluate early, see how they perform, but obviously there were not planning on throwing them into the limelight so soon, so they're not just gonna pretend that, though this isn't what they prefer would happen, this current situation is just fine for our young D as well.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:00 pm

Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby newarenanow on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:05 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?


I would. Gonch will be 35, missing almost a whole season, and would clear a lot of space, while the younger guys got tons of experience this year.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby KG on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:07 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?



If they want to get a big time winger, they are going to have to cut some salary eventually somewhere...Especially with Staal's raise coming soon...

To answer your question. If Whitney takes the next step (which is a big IF imo) then I would see what the market value is for Gonchar this summer...
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Gaucho on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:20 pm

swflyers8 wrote:Bummer about Gonchar, I'm really broken up about it. :)


?
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:24 pm

Thank God I got Letang on 2 of my fantasy teams, he has to put up numbers in this situation.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby newarenanow on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:27 pm

KG wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?



If they want to get a big time winger, they are going to have to cut some salary eventually somewhere...Especially with Staal's raise coming soon...

To answer your question. If Whitney takes the next step (which is a big IF imo) then I would see what the market value is for Gonchar this summer...


They need to trade Malkin.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:37 pm

Malkin to LA for Jack Johnson
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby newarenanow on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:39 pm

Kovy27 wrote:Malkin to LA for Jack Johnson


We need to at least get two players in return.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby penny lane on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:40 pm

Gaucho wrote:
swflyers8 wrote:Bummer about Gonchar, I'm really broken up about it. :)


?


You know Sergei is no kimo timonen~ :roll: 8-)
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby shmenguin on Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:04 pm

penny lane wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
swflyers8 wrote:Bummer about Gonchar, I'm really broken up about it. :)


?


You know Sergei is no kimo timonen~ :roll: 8-)


then according to the Vs. staff, he's no Bobby Orr either.

and i hope flyers fans will notice that after we lose a game, we won't use gonchar as the lone reason for losing.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Ron` on Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:52 pm

Gonch gone, Whitney gone, that's alot of PP productivity. GoGo better be ready. Neither one is season ending and that's a positive. The talent at forward and in goal should still be more than solid. Don't jump yet.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Pitts on Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:55 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:Malkin to LA for Jack Johnson


We need to at least get two players in return.

Add in Dustin Brown and we good.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Ron` on Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:00 pm

Pitts wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:Malkin to LA for Jack Johnson


We need to at least get two players in return.

Add in Dustin Brown and we good.
LA isn't going to part with JJ, but that's my opinion.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:07 pm

Ron` wrote:but that's my opinion.


Thats what you think.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:05 pm

shmenguin wrote:
penny lane wrote:
You know Sergei is no kimo timonen~ :roll: 8-)


then according to the Vs. staff, he's no Bobby Orr either.

and i hope flyers fans will notice that after we lose a game, we won't use gonchar as the lone reason for losing.


I was telling my roommate (Flyers fan, unfortunately) about Gonchar being out 4-6 months. And he just said now you know how we felt in the playoffs last year. I didn't have to reply much to that comment since we kicked their butt in the playoffs. But I did say, "Now you can watch and learn how a team wins even when their two best dmen are injured." And I walked out.

BTW, my roommate is a good kid, his only downfall is he's a Philthy Flyers fan.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby bhaw on Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:47 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?



Haha... damn you HH! That was my question in another Gonchar thread that no one answered.

In order for this to happen, it would have to be Goligoski who really impresses everyone. Whitney would have to come back and be the Whitney of 2 years ago when he was improving. At that point, you can think about it, and it would make sense if you can turn Gonchar into a big time offensive improvement. It wouldn't be a shedding salary to sign someone move, it would be getting back a huge return because he would be worth either an elite winger or multiple high picks. The good thing is that Shero would be holding all the cards in this situation.

I don't think anyone doubts Gonchar is a big loss. I think the majorit contention is that it knocks this team down a couple spots in the standings, but it does not keep us out of the playoffs. There's a lot of back and forth in this thread, but it's really all saying the same thing... the Pens are worse off. I think the only points of disagreement are what can be replaced and what can't be replaced by the current roster.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Rocco on Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:14 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?


I'd have tried to move him this summer.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:16 pm

Rocco wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Here's a hypothetical. Let's say Letang and Goligoski fill in admirably. Then Whitney comes back in December/January and is looking like a top pairing defenseman. Would you consider moving Gonchar this summer with one year left on his deal in order to go after a big winger?


I'd have tried to move him this summer.


Is that a yes?
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