Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Draftnik on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:56 pm

LeBrun is one of the most respected hockey writers in NA. He made his bones at the Canadian Press, so he isn't the normal know nothing ESPN hockey type. He and his source are probably solid on this.

As long as the Gonch can get 4 to 6 weeks before the playoffs start things should be OK. The Pens are all about winning the Cup. They will make the playoffs with or without Serge and seeding isn't that big of a deal. They also won't trade for a replacement since Whitney will be back in a few months.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby bhaw on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:06 pm

Gill is also adept at taking high slap shots to opposing teams' top d-men. :wink:

Just saw this. What a bummer, but I think the team can survive. Our defense will just be very prone to mistakes for a while. I'm not looking forward to the over-reaction and demands for trades, but it's a great opportunity to get this team ready for LAG (Life After Gonchar).
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby purelebo84 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:14 pm

This sucks, but to hell with it all.

We've seen this before, and we've responded. Time to do it again.

Letang and Gogo have to step it up.


Letang will, and we'll have to see about Gogo.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby netwolf on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:15 pm

Best case scenario is that Letang is ready to take a big step forward, Goligoski has minimal rookie growing pains, and Whitney comes back and returns to the Whit of 2 years ago. Heck, I would think that even if the Pens got 2 of those 3 things, they'd be in pretty good shape on the back end.

Then, as long as Gonchar's rehab goes according to plan, it will be like Shero traded for an all-star caliber defenseman at the trade deadline without giving up anything in return. Here's hoping.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby doublewinder on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:20 pm

Folks...this is HORRIBLE news for the Pens.
Last year the Pens were struck with injuries (Crosby, MAF, Roberts) and now we lost our two best defenseman BEFORE the year started.

You can argue we have depth on defense, ok...but NOBDOY is an norris caliber player like Gonchar..nobody has the skills of him and Whitney.
Gonchar is a major reason why the Pens PP has been so awesome...he is remarkable at QBing it...this is a tremendous blow to our biggest strength.
The other d we have are no better than a number 3...and serve as good complinments to Gonchar...without Gonchar AND Whitney...we have nothing special.

This is a major loss...and it remains to be seen what shape Gonchar and Whitney are in if they return.

The bright side is we kept Orpik...without him we would be in more trouble...AND nobody in our division (or even confrence) made major improvements.

However...to lose your two best defenseman....before the season...after losing your two best wingers to free agency...is a major loss.
It will make it quite hard for the Pens to finish higher than number 3...if not even winning the division.
It's too bad because they built so much on last year.

Losing Gonchar alone would be a big blow to the PP...our biggest strength...but along with Ryan Whitney..and Malone...and Hossa...before the season begins??
Not a good day for Pens fans.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Rocco on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:21 pm

netwolf wrote:Hal Gill did lead the Pens defense in even strength points with 23 (he had 24 points total).

http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKe ... ame=points

What that page doesn't show is how many he rung up here vs. how many he rung up in Toronto prior to the trade. His NHL.com Profile shows he scored 4 of his 24 points here, so that means almost all of those ESPs came in Toronto.

I think Gill's passing (and Scuderi's) is average at best, but will admit Gill is decent at getting a low wrister towards the net. 90-95% of the time Scuderi's only play in the offensive zone is to dump it back down the wall.


Scuderi's passing isn't average- it's non-existent. He's reasonable enough in his own end, but a complete disaster with the puck. He really needs to be with someone who can pass and handle the puck.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby netwolf on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:27 pm

Rocco wrote:Scuderi's passing isn't average- it's non-existent. He's reasonable enough in his own end, but a complete disaster with the puck. He really needs to be with someone who can pass and handle the puck.

I was trying to be nice. And to point out that the much-maligned Darryl Sydor still has some game left.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby bhaw on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:29 pm

doublewinder wrote:Folks...this is HORRIBLE news for the Pens.


I have a hard time being negative before seeing the current team step onto the ice. This negativity is what makes reading this board so annoying sometimes. The team has yet to do anything and it's the end of the world. It's like criticizing the coaches about lines or how they set up the PP before it's even happened yet.

The team won't be as good as they would with Gonchar... that's obvious. But let's see how they put it together. If Malkin is allowed to QB the powerplay, I'm not as concerned as if Letang was all of a sudden given that responsiblity.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby doublewinder on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:30 pm

You know what really sucks.....WE COULD HAVE HAD MATT SCHNEIDER two days ago!!!!!!!
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby bhaw on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:32 pm

doublewinder wrote:You know what really sucks.....WE COULD HAVE HAD MATT SCHNEIDER two days ago!!!!!!!


What? Are you advocating we SHOULD have picked up Schneider? We should have given up assets for him? This is why you keep 8 NHL dmen (not counting Goligoski). You don't carry those players if you are uncomfortable with the notion of any combination of them playing together.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby doublewinder on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:35 pm

You could have gotten Schneider for nuttin.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby bhaw on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:37 pm

doublewinder wrote:You could have gotten Schneider for nuttin.


Atlanta traded players for him. How could the Pens have gotten him for free?
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby netwolf on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:41 pm

Gonchar is a huge loss, but the team lost Crosby AND Fleury for an extended period last year and they found a way to overcome that. I'm not going to minimize the loss, but I'm not going to say it's the end of the season either. The extremism on this board at times amazes me.

The Pens did not need to trade for Mathieu Schneider either. The Pens might get cap relief from Gonchar's salary from him being on IR (I'm admittedly not that well-versed in how that works), but at some point Gonchar will come back and his cap number will go back on the books. You can't just drop salary at that point to make everyone fit. That's a big enough reason not to do it right there, and I haven't even brought up how bad of an idea it would be to give up assets for a guy who, while still a good, productive player, is on the downside of his career.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby tjand72 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:43 pm

netwolf wrote:Gonchar is a huge loss, but the team lost Crosby AND Fleury for an extended period last year and they found a way to overcome that. I'm not going to minimize the loss, but I'm not going to say it's the end of the season either. The extremism on this board at times amazes me.

The Pens did not need to trade for Mathieu Schneider either. The Pens might get cap relief from Gonchar's salary from him being on IR (I'm admittedly not that well-versed in how that works), but at some point Gonchar will come back and his cap number will go back on the books. You can't just drop salary at that point to make everyone fit. That's a big enough reason not to do it right there, and I haven't even brought up how bad of an idea it would be to give up assets for a guy who, while still a good, productive player, is on the downside of his career.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:44 pm

bhaw wrote:
doublewinder wrote:You could have gotten Schneider for nuttin.


Atlanta traded players for him. How could the Pens have gotten him for free?

\Waivers
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:21 am

I dont think many people here will still be pining for schneider when our offense burns him everytime we play atlanta.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby booboo on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:01 am

doublewinder wrote:Folks...this is HORRIBLE news for the Pens.
Last year the Pens were struck with injuries (Crosby, MAF, Roberts) and now we lost our two best defenseman BEFORE the year started.

You can argue we have depth on defense, ok...but NOBDOY is an norris caliber player like Gonchar..nobody has the skills of him and Whitney.
Gonchar is a major reason why the Pens PP has been so awesome...he is remarkable at QBing it...this is a tremendous blow to our biggest strength.
The other d we have are no better than a number 3...and serve as good complinments to Gonchar...without Gonchar AND Whitney...we have nothing special.

This is a major loss...and it remains to be seen what shape Gonchar and Whitney are in if they return.

The bright side is we kept Orpik...without him we would be in more trouble...AND nobody in our division (or even confrence) made major improvements.

However...to lose your two best defenseman....before the season...after losing your two best wingers to free agency...is a major loss.
It will make it quite hard for the Pens to finish higher than number 3...if not even winning the division.
It's too bad because they built so much on last year.

Losing Gonchar alone would be a big blow to the PP...our biggest strength...but along with Ryan Whitney..and Malone...and Hossa...before the season begins??
Not a good day for Pens fans.


Oh, shut up already.
We have a long bench of guys hungry to prove their value.
In fact, the team will likely benefit from this mess just like they had
last season. Win or loose, they will learn an we will be better off
than many would imagine. Whit and Gonch will have to actually
fight for the spots upon their return, I predict.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:02 am

Or when they see that the PP is still a force because, you know, they might have a couple other offensively talented players to pick up the slack. Personally, I think it's a bit insulting to Crosby and Malkin to say that they need Gonchar to be effective on the PP. They're two of the top offensive players in the league, arguably the top two. They've got other offensively talented forwards. They've still got two highly skilled defensemen in Letang and Goligoski, plus a veteran in Sydor. The PP won't miss a beat without Gonchar. Nothing against him, but there's simply too much talent here. Going out and picking up a $5 million defenseman without even letting these guys show what they have would be stupid. That would have been like going and getting Ray Emery last year before even letting Conklin play.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby The Snapshot on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:13 am

Henry Hank wrote:They've still got two highly skilled defensemen in Letang and Goligoski, plus a veteran in Sydor. The PP won't miss a beat without Gonchar.


I'm not advocating any moves until we see what the first 10-15 games shows, but I think it is a slight to Gonchar to say this. I think the 3 you mention will get it done, but when Gonchar went out for a stretch a while back Whitney clearly was not ready to carry the PP at that time.

There is no way to be sure that Letang, Goligoski or a near-death Sydor (who has clearly lost two steps).

I look at it as losing Gonchar will limit our second unit drastically and the first unit substantially, because at some point Eaton, Gill, Scuderi or Orpik will be out there on the 2nd. We'll only need one D man on the first if Malkin can play there, but then that impacts the rotation down low. Either way, Gonchar being gone has a domino effect and it isn't a good one.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby booboo on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:13 am

Henry Hank wrote:Or when they see that the PP is still a force because, you know, they might have a couple other offensively talented players to pick up the slack. Personally, I think it's a bit insulting to Crosby and Malkin to say that they need Gonchar to be effective on the PP. They're two of the top offensive players in the league, arguably the top two. They've got other offensively talented forwards. They've still got two highly skilled defensemen in Letang and Goligoski, plus a veteran in Sydor. The PP won't miss a beat without Gonchar. Nothing against him, but there's simply too much talent here. Going out and picking up a $5 million defenseman without even letting these guys show what they have would be stupid. That would have been like going and getting Ray Emery last year before even letting Conklin play.


Exactly.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:15 am

Malkin has already shown he can man things from that right point, this is different from throwing Whitney in there, and even then it was a small sample size to judge him on. Besides, the pens have a lot more reliable weapons right now.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby booboo on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:15 am

The Snapshot wrote:Either way, Gonchar being gone has a domino effect and it isn't a good one.


True, but we have depth on D like never before. Just relax, it will be fun to watch.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:20 am

It's not like Gonchar missed much time last year. He missed a few games. That's an insignificant sample size to try and use it as proof that he's essential to the PP. He's been hurt for weeks now and they've been practicing without him. They're using a unit that now utilizes Malkin as the trigger man on the point. That's a completely different situation than going without Gonchar for a few games mid-season. The PP I've seen in the preseason has been great without him. There's too much talent here. If they're going to miss him, they're going to miss his D.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby André on Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:11 am

These are no lies, Niles.
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Re: Gonchar out 4-6 months!!!

Postby André on Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:17 am

bhaw wrote:
doublewinder wrote:You know what really sucks.....WE COULD HAVE HAD MATT SCHNEIDER two days ago!!!!!!!


What? Are you advocating we SHOULD have picked up Schneider? We should have given up assets for him? This is why you keep 8 NHL dmen (not counting Goligoski). You don't carry those players if you are uncomfortable with the notion of any combination of them playing together.


I think he means had this announcement come two days earlier we could've had Schneider for nothing. Altough I don't know how that would've worked out when Whitney and/or Gonchar returns.
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