Alarmed at the alarms.

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Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:57 pm

Wow.
All these people sounding off alarms after two games. Change this line...change that line...move this guy...leave that guy...I wonder if these are the same people that freak out about MT changing a line. :roll:

The only thing at this point that you can even slighty sound a warning about is the PP. I know it is a fresh season with the PP but if not for a goal that just beat the buzzer they would have been 0-14.
So technically they are now 1-14 on the PP.

This is no big deal normally given the season just started but the way they played on these PP's is jaw dropping. This was like nightmare coming back called the SC finals with the 5 on 3 chances!

Where are all the shots on net? How about where are all the shots PERIOD? Pass, pass, pass, back and forth, point men lined up on the wrong side until they get the puck then they try and switch sides with the puck, it just goes on and on.

If this is solely Yeo's PP then he might want to freshen up his resume.

The sad thing in the first two games was that the Pens were a greater force at even strength than on a 5 on 4. :cry:

You want to sound an alarm about something...ring away on that, otherwide let the lines at this point alone and give them some time to work it out.

The PP...you could have 5 hall of famers out there right now and they just aren't getting quality shots!!!!!! cough cough...any shot!

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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Kicksave on Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:59 pm

You call out the people who are over-reacting, but you're suggesting Yeo freshen up his resume.

His resume includes the PP teams he's coached to be in the top 5-6 the last 3 years. He shouldn't have any problems finding a new job.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Jimmy Straka on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:02 pm

this happens after every loss...
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Tico Rick on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:07 pm

Jimmy Straka wrote:this happens after every loss...


Yep. And I think a lot of us are comparing what we've seen in these first two games to what we saw in the finals. This team, right now, is not as good as the team that was in the finals last year. But this team is better than the team that we started the year with last year. Every year is a growth process, as new players come in, people take on new roles, etc. Maybe Satan or Staal will have a hat trick in the next game and we'll all be ready to buy our playoff tickets. Give Satan, Fedo, etc. a chance to adapt to new linemates. And let's not forget that we have been missing three pretty important players in Sykora, Gonchar and Whitney.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:08 pm

The fact that they aren't shooting enough tells me it's not Yeo's problem but the players. I'm sure, of course, that Yeo has taken more than his share of criticism the last few days. I can't imagine any PP strategy being to pass and pass and pass until you get the perfect chance... and then still pass. Whenever changes need to be made, the first thing is always just to simplify things and shoot more. The Pens have a lot of finesse players that like to make pretty plays. That should be nothing new to Pens fans. They'll figure it out. Gonchar's been the focal point on the blue line of the PP for three years. It's obviously going to be an adjustment when you're going to inexperienced players and forwards on the point. I refuse to believe that with this much talent here that the PP will be a problem for any significant length.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:10 pm

Weren't you one of the ones calling for Pesonen to be put on Crosby's line before 1 game even occurred?

Thats to Scott not to HH.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:14 pm

Kicksave wrote:You call out the people who are over-reacting, but you're suggesting Yeo freshen up his resume.

His resume includes the PP teams he's coached to be in the top 5-6 the last 3 years. He shouldn't have any problems finding a new job.


I only suggest that if this trend of NOT SHOOTING continues then yes, he needs to freshen up his resume.

I call the people out who want to play musical lines already, but one thing that is FACTUAL is the PP is not getting shots! I can take an 0-14 or the 1-14 start to the year. The lack of shots is very bad.

As far as you pointing out that this PP in the last 3 years was in the top 5-6 I ask you this..
Given the talent, how couldn't it be?
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:20 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Weren't you one of the ones calling for Pesonen to be put on Crosby's line before 1 game even occurred?

Thats to Scott not to HH.


Yes and if you recall I said that early in Pre-season before any lines were set. I didn't watch the first two games and say call the Helmet up now did I?

Moreover what did me wanting JP to get a look playing with Crosby have anything to do with this?
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby bhaw on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:20 pm

Scott wrote:As far as you pointing out that this PP in the last 3 years was in the top 5-6 I ask you this..
Given the talent, how couldn't it be?


This argument sucks and people keep using it. If the PP is bad, it's Yeo's fault, but if they do well, it's because there is so much talent they can't finish any lower. Obviously they can be bad with the talent (1-14). This argument leads me to believe you think we don't need a PP coach because the players we have can coast to a top 5 PP ranking.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:23 pm

Scott wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Weren't you one of the ones calling for Pesonen to be put on Crosby's line before 1 game even occurred?

Thats to Scott not to HH.


Yes and if you recall I said that early in Pre-season before any lines were set. I didn't watch the first two games and say call the Helmet up now did I?

Moreover what did me wanting JP to get a look playing with Crosby have anything to do with this?


Do I need to go find that quote where you request 20 or so games with Crosby?

It has everything to do with it since its the exact same thing. You didn't like the top line after less than half the preseason.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm

bhaw wrote:
Scott wrote:As far as you pointing out that this PP in the last 3 years was in the top 5-6 I ask you this..
Given the talent, how couldn't it be?


This argument sucks and people keep using it. If the PP is bad, it's Yeo's fault, but if they do well, it's because there is so much talent they can't finish any lower. Obviously they can be bad with the talent (1-14). This argument leads me to believe you think we don't need a PP coach because the players we have can coast to a top 5 PP ranking.


I suggest the opposite. This teams needs a very good PP coach because of one simple reason. This team will lead the league or be in the top 2 of getting PP chances.

Is YEO the guy? If the players don't shoot then the answer is no. You can point the blame to the players all you want but if the MESSAGE isn't getting delivered or the proper people are not in place to carry the message out of shoot=chance to score then he is not getting his job done.

As another has suggested, lets say Yeo is the reason the Pens have finished in the top 5-6 on the PP. Lets also say that is all the better this team could be under YEO is 5th or 6th in the league.

Is that good enough for you? Given the talent, is that acceptable?
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:38 pm

If players don't shoot, there is no answer for the powerplay.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby bhaw on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:39 pm

Yes, because it's consistently in the top 5 and they keep winning. I honestly don't care if they were #30 as long as they win the games. The Pens can't and won't be #1 in everything. Those are unrealistic expectations of any team.

The players obviously shoot, otherwise they'd never get in the top 5 to begin with. When players are uncomfortable with each other, they overpass. The PP will be fine if you give it more than a couple games.

Yes, the PP sucked hard core this weekend, but it's not an emergency nor any reason to suggest Yeo needs to get his resume ready. There's nothing wrong with saying the coaching staff made a mistake without implying they need to be fired.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:41 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Scott wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Weren't you one of the ones calling for Pesonen to be put on Crosby's line before 1 game even occurred?

Thats to Scott not to HH.


Yes and if you recall I said that early in Pre-season before any lines were set. I didn't watch the first two games and say call the Helmet up now did I?

Moreover what did me wanting JP to get a look playing with Crosby have anything to do with this?


Do I need to go find that quote where you request 20 or so games with Crosby?

It has everything to do with it since its the exact same thing. You didn't like the top line after less than half the preseason.


What are you talking about? I don't like the top line after less than half the preseason?????? I never said that. I originally said JP should have got 20 games with Crosby. That was too many and a knee jerk reaction on my part. (See how a person can admit when they were wrong about something) I then suggested that he should have had some TIME with the Captain which I still believe. he got sent down to WBS, and guess what...I didn't ever suggest after the news that the sky is falling or MT is crazy, etc. They decided to do that, so lets see what happens with the current players in Pittsburgh. That is how I think on the subject.

Now how about you (Idoit40) contribute something meaningful to a thread.

Message boards are cool to share opinions and views on subjects. It appears you enjoy pointing fingers at meaningless things. What will be next? Are you going to tell me that back in 1992 I predicted the Pens would not sweep the Blackhawks in the finals therefore I shouldn't be critical of Yeo?
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:45 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:If players don't shoot, there is no answer for the powerplay.


Meaning what?
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:52 pm

If they aren't shooting, the fault is theirs alone. No coach can fix the problem.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:52 pm

bhaw wrote:Yes, because it's consistently in the top 5 and they keep winning. I honestly don't care if they were #30 as long as they win the games. The Pens can't and won't be #1 in everything. Those are unrealistic expectations of any team.

The players obviously shoot, otherwise they'd never get in the top 5 to begin with. When players are uncomfortable with each other, they overpass. The PP will be fine if you give it more than a couple games.

Yes, the PP sucked hard core this weekend, but it's not an emergency nor any reason to suggest Yeo needs to get his resume ready. There's nothing wrong with saying the coaching staff made a mistake without implying they need to be fired.


I agree with most of this and never expect them to be #1 in every category. I don't agree with you on them being #30 or basically you saying the PP can suck as long as they win. That is true until the playoffs come. You need a good PP in the spring. Especially this team given all the chances they earn.

My suggesting about Yeo and his resume were simply that he may not exactly have the most secure job on the Pens bench if the PP trend continues.

I feel bad for the guy because I know he blames himself for the 5 on 3 debacles in the Finals and wants the PP to work like a machine. We all hope it does.

Right now it sucks. Not because they went 1-14...but because they aren't shooting and the movement is a mess.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby bhaw on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:57 pm

My point was that their stats are meaningless if they win and keep winning. If they were 0-60 in the playoffs but won the Cup, I still wouldn't care. Not likely to happen, but you get my point. They don't need to be top 2 in the league if they keep winning. It's just a stat... and a relative stat. If they are clicking at 35% and #10, that's still pretty damn good.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby newarenanow on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:06 pm

FIRE MT!!!!!

TRADE WHITNEY!!!!!

MAF SUCKS!!!!!
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:14 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:If they aren't shooting, the fault is theirs alone. No coach can fix the problem.


Do you really believe that? Let me tell you something from a coaches perspective.

If a player that I choose to be in a particular spot based on his talents but is not doing what is asked of him, then I need to find a way to reach that specific individual so that he understands what he is supposed to be doing. Everybody, yes even at that the NHL level has a different learning curve.
Coaches can complain that they don't have enough talent to reach certain plateus, but any good coach will take full blame if the players are not executing the fundamentals of something.

If Yeo is blaming the players then he should be fired yesterday. I guarantee you that he is trying to figure out a way to make his guys understand that they need to shoot and trying to come up with a message to reach the players so they get it.

This is how you serperate good coaching from average. Once you have the talent, what do you do with that talent?

Believe me when I tell you that having talent makes the job of winning easier, you can still easily mess it up.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby shmenguin on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:14 pm

i'm no expert on the technical details of hockey, but it seems like you shouldn't take shots when you don't have time to set up, there's no one running a screen and there are 2 guys in perfect position to block your shot.

so the problem doesn't seem to be the lack of shooting, it seems like lack of movement and crisp passing, which makes shooting a pointless endeavor.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:19 pm

Scott wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:If they aren't shooting, the fault is theirs alone. No coach can fix the problem.


Do you really believe that? Let me tell you something from a coaches perspective.

If a player that I choose to be in a particular spot based on his talents but is not doing what is asked of him, then I need to find a way to reach that specific individual so that he understands what he is supposed to be doing. Everybody, yes even at that the NHL level has a different learning curve.
Coaches can complain that they don't have enough talent to reach certain plateus, but any good coach will take full blame if the players are not executing the fundamentals of something.

If Yeo is blaming the players then he should be fired yesterday. I guarantee you that he is trying to figure out a way to make his guys understand that they need to shoot and trying to come up with a message to reach the players so they get it.

This is how you serperate good coaching from average. Once you have the talent, what do you do with that talent?

Believe me when I tell you that having talent makes the job of winning easier, you can still easily mess it up.


If I were Mike Yeo, that response would make sense, but since I'm not, it does not.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:19 pm

It shouldn't be a shocker that the Penguin power play will struggle with 3/5 of it (Hossa, Whitney, Gonchar) is missing.

Especially when the replacements at the point are a 2nd year player (Letang), A rookie (gogo), and Offensive powerhouses like eaton, orpik, and sydor.
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby Scott on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:21 pm

shmenguin wrote:i'm no expert on the technical details of hockey, but it seems like you shouldn't take shots when you don't have time to set up, there's no one running a screen and there are 2 guys in perfect position to block your shot.

so the problem doesn't seem to be the lack of shooting, it seems like lack of movement and crisp passing, which makes shooting a pointless endeavor.


That is true. It is a combo of things. It's a big mess right now. The movement sucks or is lacking. When there are chances to shoot they are passing. Every player including Crosby is not doing it. There were times when he had a perfect one-timer opportunity and made one more pass.

But this brings us back to the YEO thing. If the players are in fact doing what YEO is telling them to do,,,,,,now what?????????????
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Re: Alarmed at the alarms.

Postby iseeguins on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:26 pm

Kicksave wrote:You call out the people who are over-reacting, but you're suggesting Yeo freshen up his resume.

His resume includes the PP teams he's coached to be in the top 5-6 the last 3 years. He shouldn't have any problems finding a new job.


With the personnel the Penguins have had over the last couple of years, they should have been clicking at ariound 35% on the powerplay .. assuming reasonably good coaching. That's how much talent they've had. But they haven't done anywhere near that .. and so yeah, Yeo is apparently pretty lousy.
They should have been way, way ahead of everyone else in the league .. not merely "in the top 5 or 6".
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