Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby mumbobob on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:54 am

The Penguins are going to have to ask themselves a difficult question at year's end if Staal continues playing as he did last year and so far this year. They need to internally assign him a value. Let's remember, he's only RFA this offseason, which means the Pens control his future. While they could trade him, I'm not sure what kind of value he has right now. I would consider letting his contract expire and seeing if offer sheets are made. If the sheets are less than the internal value they've assigned Staal, then match the offer. If not, at the amount of money Staal and his agent are likely to seek as a former #2 overall, the draft picks may be a more valuable windfall. The Pens don't have to make any decisions until this summer, and unless something happens to dramatically change the situation, I would advocate that they take the rest of the season to evaluate how they feel about Staal.
mumbobob
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:25 am
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia

Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:36 pm

Nizzy wrote:Lastly and the final statement. Go look at Vincent Lecavalier's point production at age 18, 19, 20. If Staal ever gets traded there is no doubt that he could be a number 1 center.


Sorry, Nizzy, but I have to address this.

Vinny, Vinny, Vinny. Let's take a look.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8467329

Seems to me he's been a VERY good player already in his second season. Don't know what happened in season 4, but in season 5 he started playing well again.

I remember in his early years, there was a lot of talk coming out of Tampa that he wasn't achieving his potential. But throughout all that time, he was still a very good player. They just knew he could have been a "superstar" and wanted to push him.

To compare Staal to Vinny just isn't fair. To Vinny.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:49 pm

Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:46 pm

I was also thinking about something else. The development of big players. I understand that many take their time, like Malone, but a #2 shouldn't.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470612

Ryan Getzlaf's year-to-year development. Pick #19 in 2003. Same exact size as Staal (and Milan Lucic), so the power forward "taking 7 years to develop" argument clearly doesn't apply here. And he fights just like Milan Lucic.

I have a problem with Jordan's personality. Ever seen the look Getzlaf gets on his face? Holy crap. That is one scary MOFO. He plays the game like a man. So does Lucic. Staal is like a little pussycat compared to those two. All this talk about Staal's size is nonsense - he does not use it.

Staal will not be a dominant center, unless we are talking a #3 on defense. Even when he had 29 goals I think he only had 13 assists. He is not a playmaker and does not create offense.

Only way I think he can still become a big name player is if he moves permanently to the wing and goes to the net, something I don't really see him doing (willingly) because he is not a physical player.

I'm sure there will be a lot of people here happy to eat crow if he ever proves us wrong, but I have to go on what I see right now. I like him personally and I don't want to bash him TOO much, but if Shero has a good offer on the table, he should take it.
Last edited by Sarcastic on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:49 pm

Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Corvidae on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:42 pm

ZenPenguin wrote:- Great speed


:shock: :?

...no. He's not super slow, but great speed? Not even a little.
Corvidae
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,111
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:47 am

Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Kraftster on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:44 pm

newarenanow wrote:
CKA24 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Can't afford either at that amount.


Moderately untrue -- if the cap increases by $5 mil for next year, we'll be fine. Now the question is whether Lemieux and Co. are willing to continually spend to the cap...



If the cap increases, so will the salaries of other unrestricted free angents that you may want/need to bring in.

The cap also will not continue to increase the way it has. And with the economy now, people will be hesitant to spend top dollar for tickets, and with the NHL revenues primarlily ticket based, I do not see revenues increasing that much.


Exactly. One has to think this is the year that the cap starts to steady a bit and not increase quite so much. I'm still so surprised when people suggest that it would be no problem at all to sign Gaborik at $7.5MM. Sure all those guys everyone lists are "coming off the books," but, Malkin's $5M bump basically negates two of those off the books guys.

As it stands the Pens have 7 forwards signed next year -- that includes Godard and Bissonnette. Crosby, Malkin, Cooke, Kennedy, and Dupuis the other guys.
5 Defenseman singed -- Gonchar, Whitney, Orpik, Eaton, Letang.
Fleury

Total: $42.5 million.

RFAs Staal, Talbot, Goligoski.
UFAs Sykora, Fedotenko, Satan, Gill, Sydor, Scuderi, Sabourin.

$17.5 is about the most the Pens could possibly have to work with. That is if the cap goes up again.

Looking at the contracts young defenseman are getting around the league -- Trevor Daley, Matt Greene, Alexander Edler, etc, etc. I don't really see how Goligoski is going to get much less than $2.5 even if he plays 60 games and puts up 18-25 points.

$15 for Talbot and Staal.

Talbot ought be seeking $2 million or more -- that may price him out of what the Pens can pay, but I certainly hope not. Staal is the wildcard and could be anywhere from $2.5 - $4.5 I would think.

$2 for Talbot, $3.5 for Staal = $9.5 million -- With 10 forwards and 6 defenseman and no backup goalie.

If you consider Staal and one of Kennedy, Talbot, or Dupuis a top six you still need two top six wingers. You still need a backup goalie, you still need team depth (boy I'd hate to see Scuderi leave but this makes no mention of resigning him), and you still need cap flexibility. All that with $9.5 million and that is IF the cap continues to rise. I'm unclear how you can get all of those things by giving any player $7.5 million.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Frolik

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JS©, Steve Dave and 22 guests


e-mail