Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby CKA24 on Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:16 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Can't afford either at that amount.


Moderately untrue -- if the cap increases by $5 mil for next year, we'll be fine. Now the question is whether Lemieux and Co. are willing to continually spend to the cap...
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby newarenanow on Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:18 pm

CKA24 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Can't afford either at that amount.


Moderately untrue -- if the cap increases by $5 mil for next year, we'll be fine. Now the question is whether Lemieux and Co. are willing to continually spend to the cap...



If the cap increases, so will the salaries of other unrestricted free angents that you may want/need to bring in.

The cap also will not continue to increase the way it has. And with the economy now, people will be hesitant to spend top dollar for tickets, and with the NHL revenues primarlily ticket based, I do not see revenues increasing that much.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Kicksave on Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:41 pm

newarenanow wrote:
CKA24 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Can't afford either at that amount.


Moderately untrue -- if the cap increases by $5 mil for next year, we'll be fine. Now the question is whether Lemieux and Co. are willing to continually spend to the cap...



If the cap increases, so will the salaries of other unrestricted free angents that you may want/need to bring in.

The cap also will not continue to increase the way it has. And with the economy now, people will be hesitant to spend top dollar for tickets, and with the NHL revenues primarlily ticket based, I do not see revenues increasing that much.


If Staal is going to be making 4-5 mil next season and we don't bring back Satan, we can easily bring in Gaborik.

You also have Sydor and Gil coming off of the books.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Samsdog on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:29 pm

Kicksave wrote:
If Staal is going to be making 4-5 mil next season and we don't bring back Satan, we can easily bring in Gaborik.

You also have Sydor and Gil coming off of the books.


Wouldn't be crushed if Gill stayed on, Scuds could be number 7, next year is Gonch's last in Pgh, and he isn't expensive. Still room for a winger and solves the problem of having only Orpik as a physical D-man.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby KG on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:34 pm

Kicksave wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Kicksave wrote:Staal for Gaborik.

Do it.


NO.


I'd rather pay Gaborik $7.5mil than pay Staal $5mil.


Agreed...Gaborik fills a pressing team need...Staal, as of right now, is a replaceable player...
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Samsdog on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:37 pm

Four miles of disclaimers here, I don't think Staal should be traded I dont' think Staal should be traded....and so on

But he would fit with Lemaire's shutdown-defense-first-offense-never system. Just saying.

I don't think Staal should be traded............
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby newarenanow on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:38 pm

Kicksave wrote:
If Staal is going to be making 4-5 mil next season and we don't bring back Satan, we can easily bring in Gaborik.

You also have Sydor and Gil coming off of the books.



Who do you replace them with? When players come off the books, you have to replace them with someone. Yes, some spots will be filled with guys in WBS, but basically, you are essentially wrapping up over ~ $40M of your cap space into 6 players.

GO out and get a guy for $4-5M if you don't think Staal is worth that. That still leaves you $3-4M for other players instead of investing that full amount into one player.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Jim on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:43 pm

No one knows what Staal will be yet. Yes, he had a great rookie year. Yes he had a sad-sack second year. All you can say at this point is that he is good defensively. The guy dropped 60% in goals and shooting %. 60%. That can not be ignored. However, neither can 29 goals. No one can say which year is the "fluke". That is why neither side (Pens or Staal) made ANY noise about a contract this summer. They are both, BOTH, waiting to see what year 3 will bring.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby newarenanow on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:48 pm

KG wrote:
Kicksave wrote:
I'd rather pay Gaborik $7.5mil than pay Staal $5mil.


Agreed...Gaborik fills a pressing team need...Staal, as of right now, is a replaceable player...


At that price though? You are going to start getting into cap trouble, and will open up about 2 or 3 other pressing needs at other positions as guys come off the books and you are unable to sign a decent caliber guy because you have all of your money invested into a small handful of players.

That's not smart IMO.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Jim on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:50 pm

When you only play your 4th line 5 minutes a game, and your 3rd defensive pairing 10 minutes a game... you do not need too much real depth.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby newarenanow on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:58 pm

Jim wrote:When you only play your 4th line 5 minutes a game, and your 3rd defensive pairing 10 minutes a game... you do not need too much real depth.


Until someone gets hurt, or you go through a tough stretch and you need those 4th line guys.

Or when you need that spark, and even if it is for that 5 minutes a game, you need those types of players that will give you that.

You can have the best top loaded team ever, but they can't be out there all game.

Plus, those fourth liners is not what is going to cost you. Those guys make around minimum anyways. It's the second and third line where your quality will really start hurting.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby KG on Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:06 pm

newarenanow wrote:
KG wrote:
Kicksave wrote:
I'd rather pay Gaborik $7.5mil than pay Staal $5mil.


Agreed...Gaborik fills a pressing team need...Staal, as of right now, is a replaceable player...


At that price though? You are going to start getting into cap trouble, and will open up about 2 or 3 other pressing needs at other positions as guys come off the books and you are unable to sign a decent caliber guy because you have all of your money invested into a small handful of players.

That's not smart IMO.


If Staal is going to get $5MM per year. I agree with Kicksave and rather pay Gaborik $7.5MM and cut the corners with the Gills, Sydors etc...
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby newarenanow on Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:14 pm

KG wrote:
If Staal is going to get $5MM per year. I agree with Kicksave and rather pay Gaborik $7.5MM and cut the corners with the Gills, Sydors etc...


I know I'm not going to change your mind, but IMO, I just think it is a horrible idea to have two $8.7M players, a $7.5M player, and then have Whitney and Fluery's contracts too.

I know it is only two games, and things will change, but look at how bad our PP is when you rely on two inexperienced players instead of a good veteran or two.

Other areas will start hurting too if you start cutting corners.

Hockey is a team game. The cap is out there for a reason. If teams want to load up on 2 or 3 world class players, they will pay the price elsewhere, and I just don't see how you can be a consistent winner w/o an all around great team.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby KG on Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:17 pm

newarenanow wrote:
KG wrote:
If Staal is going to get $5MM per year. I agree with Kicksave and rather pay Gaborik $7.5MM and cut the corners with the Gills, Sydors etc...


I know I'm not going to change your mind, but IMO, I just think it is a horrible idea to have two $8.7M players, a $7.5M player, and then have Whitney and Fluery's contracts too.

I know it is only two games, and things will change, but look at how bad our PP is when you rely on two inexperienced players instead of a good veteran or two.

Other areas will start hurting too if you start cutting corners.

Hockey is a team game. The cap is out there for a reason. If teams want to load up on 2 or 3 world class players, they will pay the price elsewhere, and I just don't see how you can be a consistent winner w/o an all around great team.


In a perfect world I wouldn't want the pens to spend that much money in 3 forwards either...It would not be my first option. That is why I would consider moving Staal for a cheaper goal scorer, or possibly Whitney...Unrestricted free agency is a last resort...Especially big ticket items...
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby newarenanow on Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:25 pm

KG wrote:In a perfect world I wouldn't want the pens to spend that much money in 3 forwards either...It would not be my first option. That is why I would consider moving Staal for a cheaper goal scorer, or possibly Whitney...Unrestricted free agency is a last resort...Especially big ticket items...



I'm not arguing moving Staal. I wouldn't trade him just to trade him. And the $5M+ is all speculation.

But if I were to move him, I'd like to get someone in the $4-5M range. That still leaves $3-4M you can spend on another player or two.

I do not agree with moving Whitney. I know he gets bashed a lot, but once Gonchar is gone next year, he will be the man as the offensive defenseman. I think he is a great player, and doesn't get enough credit. Gologowski and Letang are not ready yet, and it may be 3 or 4 years until they are.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Mr. Colby on Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:49 pm

too bad we didn't pick toews... total beast. (easy to say in hindsight)...

Either way, Staal just turned 20 years old. Not too many guys make the show at age 20. Giving up on him now or any time in the next 2-3 years would be ludicrous...

He's going to be a GOOD two way top-6 forward for years to come. The maturity he has shown in his first 2 seasons as a pro really made people forget that he is so young.

His rookie year, he was a beast. Last year, he wasn't so great offensively, however in the 2nd half of the year and the playoffs he showed a lot more. Defensively he was incredible.

It's easy to underrate this guy considering the fact that the last 2 first rounders before him are 2 of the greatest in the game.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:57 pm

Staal is burnt out, they should just release him.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Why So Serious? on Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:29 pm

Say what you want about #11, J. Staal shows up big time in the playoffs. As far as I am concerned, Malkin and Crosby are good enough to help us get to the playoffs. And then J. Staal can help us big in the playoffs. It's not as bad as people make it out to be. I'd rather have balance between our three youngsters. Malkin and Crosby are going to reel off 100+ points/season. How is it a bad thing if J. Staal focuses more on the defensive side of things while putting 20+ goals, 40-50+ points? If he is going to be a top 6 player on this team, his production will get better by time. And I just cannot wait to see how SICKK he is going to be at the age of 25-26. He is going to be a monster.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby wallflower on Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:50 pm

I have nothing really useful to add, as everything I think about Staal has already been posted so I'll just say: I <3 Staal and think he's great. So yeah.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby WWGRD on Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:58 pm

I like Staal's potential but it would be nice to see Gaborik with a Pens logo on.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby wallflower on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:09 pm

WWGRD wrote:I like Staal's potential but it would be nice to see Gaborik with a Pens logo on.

I like Gaborik [a lot, actually] but the fact that he is hurt constantly & will command so much money, I'd rather bank on Staal's potential.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Pitts on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:14 pm

Samsdog wrote:Four miles of disclaimers here, I don't think Staal should be traded I dont' think Staal should be traded....and so on

But he would fit with Lemaire's shutdown-defense-first-offense-never system. Just saying.

I don't think Staal should be traded............

So, are you suggesting they trade Staal for Gaborik and then go on to win the Stanley Cup of the Detroit Red Wings and Marian Hossa?

Sweet. Sounds like a solid plan! 8-)
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Pitts on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:17 pm

Gaborik could easily get 100 goals on Crosby's wing. 113 if he stays healthy.
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby Lesky on Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:44 pm

Is it possible that Staal can play himself into a pay-cut?

If he stays on course for maybe 3 goals and 3 assist, that might just do it?
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Re: Whats The Greatness of highly touted Jordan Staal?

Postby holeinone on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:39 am

It is really sad when we talk about a player (J Staal) who has no goals and 3 assists this year and has not scored a goal in some 20 odd games in the regular season and talking about him demanding 4 to 5 million per year. Have we all gone mad. No wonder the salaries in this league are way out of line. When we give players like that millions of dollars for no production because they have potential, we are all nuts. I say prove it before I give you squat. If you don't like it leave. BTW Malone is tearing it up in Tampa for that $31 million he got This league is out of control
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