Staal has no future on this team

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Staal has no future on this team

Postby The Current One on Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:06 am

As long as Sid and Geno are here, Staal will never play center on either of the top two lines. From a talent standpoint, I think he is best suited for a 3rd-line, shutdown center type role, which would be great for this team. However, 2nd overall picks aren't going to be satisfied as 3rd line centers, and that being the case, his talents are being wasted on this team. Granted, it's very early in the season, but I think Shero needs to definitely entertain the thought of moving him for a legit winger (Kessel??), as 3rd-line defensive centers are much easier to come by via free agency.
The Current One
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:41 pm

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Three Stars on Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:29 am

2nd overall picks aren't going to be satisfied as 3rd line centers, and that being the case, his talents are being wasted on this team.


I don't buy that. The problem is...it's the fans that can't be satisfied with a 2nd overall pick as the 3rd line center. If (IF) Staal becomes an elite 3rd line center, something the Pens haven't had since the waning days of Bryan Trottier, then that's a pick very well spent. On a team with Sid and Geno as your top 2, Staal as the 3 is more than most teams can boast. Two lines to score in bunches, and one line to reliably neutralize the other team's top scorers. That's quite a luxury.

Besides, there's no guarantee that these magical 3rd-line defensive center free agents will ever appear/be available/be affordable/sign with the Penguins.
Three Stars
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,577
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: And now for something completely different.

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby purelebo84 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:32 am

He's been less than stellar in his first three games back on Malkin's wing, but I don't know that it's time to say that yet.

If he doesn't improve in a few weeks, he could be trade bait for a certain Minnesota winger.
purelebo84
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,949
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: The 412

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby beerman on Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:42 am

He can take over the 2nd line center duties when we trade Malkin to the Kings
beerman
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,240
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:19 pm

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Samsdog on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:06 am

The Current One wrote:As long as Sid and Geno are here, Staal will never play center on either of the top two lines. From a talent standpoint, I think he is best suited for a 3rd-line, shutdown center type role, which would be great for this team. However, 2nd overall picks aren't going to be satisfied as 3rd line centers, and that being the case, his talents are being wasted on this team. Granted, it's very early in the season, but I think Shero needs to definitely entertain the thought of moving him for a legit winger (Kessel??), as 3rd-line defensive centers are much easier to come by via free agency.


I refuse to believe Shero will trade Staal. He's said a thousand times it won't happen unless a contract can't get done, and as for his not so great start to the season I think you could say that about just about everyone on the roster not named Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, or Marc-Andre Fleury. I agree that Staal should suck it up and play third line center, as that's where a player of his style belongs, but I doubt that will happen. Shutdown centers play 3rd line, it's not a slight, that's just the way it is. But as that won't happen, management will continue working on a way to fit him in that benefits everyone; they won't give up and move him until it's clear he's not going to develop into much.

These trade rumors center around a different player every year. Last year before Sid went down it was Malkin, before that Malone. And I'm sure we all remember the rumors about signing Curtis Joseph or trading Staal for Marty Turco. Point is, the trades that happen are the ones you never hear anything about, specifically because rumors just come from fan speculation.

You alluded to Staal's dissatisfaction, and I couldn't agree with you more about that. I think the only way that Staal could get moved is if he asked for it. And, as you pointed out, I really doubt that that is a fantastic reach to happen. Like all pro athletes, he does have a view of what he thinks he is talent-wise and and it injures his pride to have anyone say differently, so he might leave for a team that will do with him what he thinks should be done. But that would be all his decision.
Samsdog
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,698
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:33 pm
Location: Bloomfield

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby pens2005 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:13 am

the problem is malkin has given staal no help either...what, with his 15 turnovers last night?

staal played really well with malkin at one point and those two still can get it done.

staal has looked bad, but malkin can't keep turning the puck over either.
pens2005
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,396
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:54 pm

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Dickie Dunn on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:42 am

My biggest problem with Staal so far this season is that he has been playing extremely soft for his size. It was extremely pathetic last night. He was getting knocked off the puck like nobody's business.
Dickie Dunn
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,377
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:05 am

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby jf on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:43 am

Malkin set Staal up twice last night on passes that should have been buried in the net .
jf
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Butler

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Noise on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:48 am

purelebo84 wrote:He's been less than stellar in his first three games back on Malkin's wing, but I don't know that it's time to say that yet.

If he doesn't improve in a few weeks, he could be trade bait for a certain Minnesota winger.


:roll:

Pens can't afford another rental player this year.
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby WWGRD on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:02 am

I think it would be smart to move Staal possibly at the trade deadline. Gaborik turned down Minnesotas huge offer for a reason. He wants to win.
WWGRD
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,699
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:41 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA - Follow @EricP55

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby JS© on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:10 am

Did you say legit and Kessel? It's a little too early to hang 'legit' on him yet, just in the same way it's too early to say Staal has no future on this team.

I vote no.
JS©
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,806
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:52 am
Location: hooray for me

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby netwolf on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:51 am

If Shero thought Phil Kessel was a better fit here, he would have just drafted him instead of Jordan Staal in the first place.

As a rookie, Staal was eased into the lineup and eventually graduated to 2nd line left wing and scored 29 goals. The next year, he was moved back to center and asked to play a more defensive role, which he delivered on. Now he's back at left wing again. 3 games into his third season has 2 assists. How can that small a resume signify he has no future here? I don't know what the future holds for anyone, but it's way to early (both this season, and in Staal's career) to be making such declarations IMO.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,413
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Why So Serious? on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:51 am

Wow. This thread makes me want to vomit everywhere. Jordan Staal is going to be fine. IT'S THREE FRIGGIN GAMES PEOPLE!!!! Everyone just needs to take a step back and relax. Atleast give these guys until the end of October to decide what should be done. I mean, people are all bent on trading a friggin 20 year old 6'5" hockey player. Is it just me or do people seriously not realize the talent and potential this kid possesses? Along with Staal, nobody has played well, besides MAF. But that doesn't mean you call for his head three games into the season. As for Gaborik, these rumors just need to stop. He is not coming here and we CANNOT afford to give up what we would have to give up to get a guy like him every year (i.e. Marian Hossa). And honestly, do you all really think Crosby needs a Gaborik on his line to be good? The guy put up 100+ points his rookie season with Andy Hilbert, Colby Armstrong, and Mark Recchi on his line. I think that shows that he will be perfectly fine with Feds and Satan once they gel down here in a completely new system. And anyone who starts a thread with "Jordan Staal has no future on this team" and backs it up by calling Phil Kessel a legit winger, loses all credibility. Phil Kessel can't play defensive hockey if his life depended on it. And I think we are going to have enough offense in the form of Gino and Sid. And it's not a completely bad thing to have a guy like Staal who has unbelievable defensive instincts.

I understand overreaction is the nature of LGPers, but come on folks. let's get real. I just don't understand how anyone can contemplate trading a 20 year old who has come nowhere near his prime for an injury-prone rental player whose just going to break our hearts once July 1, 2009 rolls around.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby purelebo84 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:55 am

Noise wrote:
purelebo84 wrote:He's been less than stellar in his first three games back on Malkin's wing, but I don't know that it's time to say that yet.

If he doesn't improve in a few weeks, he could be trade bait for a certain Minnesota winger.


:roll:

Pens can't afford another rental player this year.

Haha probably true.

Let's hypothetically say they got him signed long term. Good?
purelebo84
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,949
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: The 412

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Why So Serious? on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:58 am

purelebo84 wrote:
Noise wrote:
purelebo84 wrote:He's been less than stellar in his first three games back on Malkin's wing, but I don't know that it's time to say that yet.

If he doesn't improve in a few weeks, he could be trade bait for a certain Minnesota winger.


:roll:

Pens can't afford another rental player this year.

Haha probably true.

Let's hypothetically say they got him signed long term. Good?


NO! Because:

A) Crosby doesn't need Gaborik on his line. He will be fine with Satan and Feds.
B) Gaborik is going to cost enough money on the cap that we will be forced to get rid of him or Malkin down the line.
C) Gaborik is way too injury-prone for the type of money that he wants.
D) Jordan Staal is friggin 20 years old!
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby wallflower on Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:00 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:Wow. This thread makes me want to vomit everywhere. Jordan Staal is going to be fine. IT'S THREE FRIGGIN GAMES PEOPLE!!!! Everyone just needs to take a step back and relax. Atleast give these guys until the end of October to decide what should be done. I mean, people are all bent on trading a friggin 20 year old 6'5" hockey player. Is it just me or do people seriously not realize the talent and potential this kid possesses? Along with Staal, nobody has played well, besides MAF. But that doesn't mean you call for his head three games into the season. As for Gaborik, these rumors just need to stop. He is not coming here and we CANNOT afford to give up what we would have to give up to get a guy like him every year (i.e. Marian Hossa). And honestly, do you all really think Crosby needs a Gaborik on his line to be good? The guy put up 100+ points his rookie season with Andy Hilbert, Colby Armstrong, and Mark Recchi on his line. I think that shows that he will be perfectly fine with Feds and Satan once they gel down here in a completely new system. And anyone who starts a thread with "Jordan Staal has no future on this team" and backs it up by calling Phil Kessel a legit winger, loses all credibility. Phil Kessel can't play defensive hockey if his life depended on it. And I think we are going to have enough offense in the form of Gino and Sid. And it's not a completely bad thing to have a guy like Staal who has unbelievable defensive instincts.

I understand overreaction is the nature of LGPers, but come on folks. let's get real. I just don't understand how anyone can contemplate trading a 20 year old who has come nowhere near his prime for an injury-prone rental player whose just going to break our hearts once July 1, 2009 rolls around.

I pretty much agreed with all of this. I'll save my panic and distress for if/when it's actually necessary. 3 games in? Not so much.

(Though, I will argue that this isn't the nature of ALL LGPers, just the vocal minority - the rest of us ignore it and roll our eyes at silly reactions like this.)
wallflower
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,913
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby brwi on Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:05 pm

I think Staal has a future in Pittsburgh unless he wants to go elsewhere. I think he'll be given every chance to prove he can score(again) as LW with Malkin and, failing that, be a reliable 3rd line center for this team. At 20 years old, it's unknown whether he'll be that top-6 guy or a center at this point and trading him would only return the same kind of "potential" that Staal has, so it would likely be a wash or Pens would take on more salary. I sure don't see RS going the rental route again when the well is pretty dry in the system at this time.

Personally, I think he'll spend most of his career anywhere as a 3rd line center unless he is on an offensively-challenged team that would use him on the 2nd line. His hands are simply not that good and he seems to lack the natural goal-scorer ability and instinct. He'll have to earn most of his goals the hard way and he'll probably peak a little later than the average NHLer, but I think the 29 goals in his rookie year was a fluke. Still, at this point, he has upside and I don't see any benefit to trading him unless some GM makes a ridiculously one-sided offer in the Pens' favor. He's 20, he is definitely affordable this season, and likely won't break the bank next contract either.

Brad
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,135
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Samsdog on Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:22 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:Wow. This thread makes me want to vomit everywhere. Jordan Staal is going to be fine. IT'S THREE FRIGGIN GAMES PEOPLE!!!! Everyone just needs to take a step back and relax. Atleast give these guys until the end of October to decide what should be done. I mean, people are all bent on trading a friggin 20 year old 6'5" hockey player. Is it just me or do people seriously not realize the talent and potential this kid possesses? Along with Staal, nobody has played well, besides MAF. But that doesn't mean you call for his head three games into the season. As for Gaborik, these rumors just need to stop. He is not coming here and we CANNOT afford to give up what we would have to give up to get a guy like him every year (i.e. Marian Hossa). And honestly, do you all really think Crosby needs a Gaborik on his line to be good? The guy put up 100+ points his rookie season with Andy Hilbert, Colby Armstrong, and Mark Recchi on his line. I think that shows that he will be perfectly fine with Feds and Satan once they gel down here in a completely new system. And anyone who starts a thread with "Jordan Staal has no future on this team" and backs it up by calling Phil Kessel a legit winger, loses all credibility. Phil Kessel can't play defensive hockey if his life depended on it. And I think we are going to have enough offense in the form of Gino and Sid. And it's not a completely bad thing to have a guy like Staal who has unbelievable defensive instincts.

I understand overreaction is the nature of LGPers, but come on folks. let's get real. I just don't understand how anyone can contemplate trading a 20 year old who has come nowhere near his prime for an injury-prone rental player whose just going to break our hearts once July 1, 2009 rolls around.


Like I said, every year it's someone different. I browsed the board a lot before I actually joined up, and saw all the "TRADE WHITNEY" declarations, and, though I'm admittedly the opposite of a Whitney fan, I think that there's just a lot of knee jerk reactions that go on. That's where trade rumors come from. Instead of seeing things through everyone wants results NOW, and think that's the rule rather than the exception because of the superstars that have passed through here. I'll go no further on this at present moment for the sake of not wearing out my welcome as a newcomer.
Samsdog
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,698
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:33 pm
Location: Bloomfield

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby K2 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:30 pm

Shero was never gonna draft Phil Kessel because IIRC, Kessel had a disdain for one Sidney Crosby back when Sid was at Shattuck, so much so that Kessel's mother would scream at Bing from the stands.

Now Toews on the other hand, well he'd look mighty fine in this lineup right now.
K2
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,898
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:35 pm
Location: Kuhnhackl's German Army

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Stanley Is My Middle Name on Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:10 pm

Before you dump on Jordan, consider the context of the first three games. No Sykora. That means instead of trying to be the defensive conscience on a line with two offensive dymanmos, he's trying too hard because he probably feels he has to "be Sykora", and let TK, or Talbot or whoever fill his role. Hence he is gripping his stick to tight right now. Patience. Once Petr returns, all will be well again.
Stanley Is My Middle Name
 

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Mongoose87 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:17 pm

I've got a nice bridge ready for you all to jump off of.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby meecrofilm on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:08 pm

The Current One has no future on this board.
meecrofilm
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,586
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: Filly don't do rebounds.

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Jim on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:17 pm

I have no problems with Staal being the 3rd line center if he ends up being more defensive, or switching to wing if he finds the scoring touch. The problem I have is with fools that think he should be given $5M a year in a long term contract tomorrow. Langenbrunner makes $2.8M for doing what Staal will probably end up doing. Langenbrunner earned that $2.8M with consistancy. Staal needs to find himself before we worry about where he fits in. Even HE doesn't know what he is yet.
Jim
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,948
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:34 pm

This topic makes no sense. Jordan Staal is playing wing and that seems to be what they're going for moving forward. Why is this about him playing center?
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: Staal has no future on this team

Postby HomerPenguin on Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:51 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:NO! Because:

A) Crosby doesn't need Gaborik on his line. He will be fine with Satan and Feds.
B) Gaborik is going to cost enough money on the cap that we will be forced to get rid of him or Malkin down the line.
C) Gaborik is way too injury-prone for the type of money that he wants.
D) Jordan Staal is friggin 20 years old!


I wouldn't make the trade either, but I haven't seen much of anything out of Satan and Fedotenko to make me think they're viable wings for Crosby. A bit more out of Satan than Fedotenko, but really neither one has impressed me.
HomerPenguin
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:50 pm
Location: ...

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blueliner, longtimefan, SteelCityFan, stopper40 and 10 guests


e-mail