Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

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Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby imau2fan on Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:59 am

But then, as we've always known, so is hockey and its fans......

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08293/920880-194.stm

Oh, and just a reminder....if you boo Marian Hossa, you're a "knucklehead". Probably a knuckledragger too if you like fighting.
Last edited by imau2fan on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby PghSkins on Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:58 am

There is only one thing more ridiculous than the fighting that takes place in the National Hockey League, and that is the wholly illogical attempts of those in the game to justify this hooliganism.


I love when columnists start a column like that, although it's more often used by political columnists- start your column by indicating that anyone who disagrees with your premise is an idiot.

All that usually does for me is make me want to turn the page.

Of course, so does the byline, "Bob Smizik."
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby DocEmrick on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:16 am

If he would have included some actual market research, maybe handed out some surveys, conducted some phone interviews, his claim would be a little believable. Instead all he throws at you are fighter stats, penalty minutes, and some other crap and calls it an article. The NHL isn't unpopular because of fighting, it's unpopular because the U.S likes football, and baseball for that matter. You're not going to walk up to some guy on the street and say "Why don't you like the NHL?" and get the response "Because of the fighting! It's dangerous!"
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Bowser on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:21 am

I guess Smizik is out of his usual bag of tricks because this column sure reminds me another column or two that he's written about fighting.

The man doesn't deserve to be collecting a paycheck at a major newspaper but since he's protected by the union, readers will continue to donate the sports pages so some poor man can wipe his arse.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Tico Rick on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:15 am

DocEmrick wrote:If he would have included some actual market research, maybe handed out some surveys, conducted some phone interviews, his claim would be a little believable... The NHL isn't unpopular because of fighting, it's unpopular because the U.S likes football, and baseball for that matter.


Yes. I personally think the game would be a purer, more exciting game if there were no fighting, and the NHL could eliminate it quite easily be simply doing what the NFL does - eject anyone who gets into a fight - but the NHL doesn't do this because they are afraid attendence would decline without fighting. It's as though they think hockey isn't a great enough sport to be exciting without fighting, which is a pretty loony idea.

But Smizik is wrong. Some hockey fans stay away from the NHL because of fighting, while others attend games for that reason. When it comes down to it, you can find an audience for just about anything: opera, ballet, wrestling, NASCAR, cock fighting, whatever. The NHL obviously feels it can attract more fans with the fighing. I don't agree, but at the same time it's hard to argue Smizik's position that banning fighting would lead to a huge increase in the NHL's popularity.

"Violence is as American as apple pie." - H. Rap Brown
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby maudineormsby on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:31 am

Tico Rick wrote:But Smizik is wrong. Some hockey fans stay away from the NHL because of fighting, while others attend games for that reason. When it comes down to it, you can find an audience for just about anything: opera, ballet, wrestling, NASCAR, cock fighting, whatever. The NHL obviously feels it can attract more fans with the fighing. I don't agree, but at the same time it's hard to argue Smizik's position that banning fighting would lead to a huge increase in the NHL's popularity.


Bingo. I bet about as many people watch the NHL for fighting as stay away. Plus, I have a sneaking suspicion that Americans like to see fights, given the recent popularity of UFC - speaking of which, awesome fight card last night.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby blackjack68 on Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:11 am

Poor Smizik is just a befuddled old man. Time to step away from the keyboard, oldtimer.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:21 am

I feel he just mailed that column in. Not a lot of effort and thought put into it.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Steve on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:12 am

I don't think fighting is holding down the NHL from being more popular.

Now putting teams in markets that don't care about hockey unless they are winning - putting games on a network that no one has - and $100 + a seat hockey tickets, that may have something to do with it...
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby bill from turtle creek on Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:51 am

Smizik is right about the scripted heavyweight fights, though. They really don't serve much purpose. That Godard/Cote fight was not settling a score, or payback for anything. It was just a fight so that these guys could fight each other. As such, it had nothing to do with the actual game itself.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby helmespc on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:02 pm

The best thing about hockey is that it is as ugly as it is elegant. You can go from a brilliant breakaway put in the upper corner of the net to 2 heavyweights pounding each other in order to rally the team. Can you imagine how boring an 82 game hockey season would be if there weren't a few nasty Pitt-Philly games like we saw last year to give you more reason to hate your team's rivals? There's no reason for the NHL to have to defend having fighting in their sport... its simply a part of the sport... its like if you said "running the bases is stupid and pointless and we should eliminate it from baseball" or "extra points are retarded, lets do away with them"... if you don't like fighting... then maybe you're watching the wrong sport.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby purelebo84 on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:03 pm

I can't believe the PG still employs this a**-clown.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby bill from turtle creek on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:11 pm

The silliness of the scripted Cote/Godard fight of the other night, though, is that neither of those guys even looked at the other guy for the rest of the night. Cote, in fact, barely played. The only reason that fight happened is because Godard needs to sort of mark his territory as the new guy in town for the Pens, and Cote willingly obliged him because he doesn't have any other role on his team. Cote, more or less, allowed his face to get scrunched as a favor to Godard. There was absolutely no malice involved. What other fighting in the entire world occurs with absolutely no malice involved?
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Member on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:19 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:The silliness of the scripted Cote/Godard fight of the other night, though, is that neither of those guys even looked at the other guy for the rest of the night. Cote, in fact, barely played.

The Cote/Godard fight ended up having zero effect on the game, like most fights in hockey do. Would you rather have them settle it in a fight, or a high-stick to the face?
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby pensfan20 on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:22 pm

I dont have facts on this im just saying.. How many bench clearing "brawls" were there in baseball this past year? or the past 5-10 years? And how many bench clearing brawls have there been in the NHL? I can only recall the fights between Colorado and Detroit back in the late 90's. Besides that not to many come to mind since the NHL basically banned brawls. But MLB doesnt care if the pitchers come running out of the pitching cages to push around 70 year old coaches do they....
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby bill from turtle creek on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:27 pm

Member wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:The silliness of the scripted Cote/Godard fight of the other night, though, is that neither of those guys even looked at the other guy for the rest of the night. Cote, in fact, barely played.

The Cote/Godard fight ended up having zero effect on the game, like most fights in hockey do. Would you rather have them settle it in a fight, or a high-stick to the face?



Settle WHAT? That's the whole point. There was nothing to settle. Do you have a fistfight with your affable co-worker for no particular reason?
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby helmespc on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:38 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote: bill from turtle creek wrote:The silliness of the scripted Cote/Godard fight of the other night, though, is that neither of those guys even looked at the other guy for the rest of the night. Cote, in fact, barely played.


The Cote/Godard fight ended up having zero effect on the game, like most fights in hockey do. Would you rather have them settle it in a fight, or a high-stick to the face?




Settle WHAT? That's the whole point. There was nothing to settle. Do you have a fistfight with your affable co-worker for no particular reason?


I think you're missing the point.... its not fighting just for no reason.... its fighting so that any of the other lesser thug minions know that if they want to take pot shots at any skill players they're going to have to deal with our heavyweight. That is the WHOLE POINT of seemingly "senseless" fighting.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Member on Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:
Member wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:The silliness of the scripted Cote/Godard fight of the other night, though, is that neither of those guys even looked at the other guy for the rest of the night. Cote, in fact, barely played.

The Cote/Godard fight ended up having zero effect on the game, like most fights in hockey do. Would you rather have them settle it in a fight, or a high-stick to the face?



Settle WHAT? That's the whole point. There was nothing to settle. Do you have a fistfight with your affable co-worker for no particular reason?

I'm not crazy about fighting in hockey either. My point was that you can't take fighting away in hockey and then not expect players to retaliate in one form or another. Plus if you're going to have goons like Godard play, they might as well fight.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Tico Rick on Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:46 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:
Member wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:The silliness of the scripted Cote/Godard fight of the other night, though, is that neither of those guys even looked at the other guy for the rest of the night. Cote, in fact, barely played.

The Cote/Godard fight ended up having zero effect on the game, like most fights in hockey do. Would you rather have them settle it in a fight, or a high-stick to the face?



Settle WHAT? That's the whole point. There was nothing to settle. Do you have a fistfight with your affable co-worker for no particular reason?


That's it. I like to watch a good fight as much as the next person, but all too many of them these days are sideshows between two designated fighters, sideshows that have nothing to do with the game. Now if someone were to crush Crosby, and Godard pummelled him in retaliation, that would be an intriguing part of the game. But when two guys line up for a face off and decide to fight just for the sake of fighting, what's the point?
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby HomerPenguin on Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:52 pm

DocEmrick wrote:The NHL isn't unpopular because of fighting, it's unpopular because the U.S likes football, and baseball for that matter.


Moreover, isn't it a little ridiculous to believe that the American sports public is too squeamish to stomach hockey violence when the top two sports in this country are the concussion-factory NFL and NASCAR, where most people are waiting around for a big fiery wreck? Yeah, I'm OK watching a guy maybe break his neck on the football field, but I just can't watch those guys punching each other like that. I'm too fragile.

:roll:
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby bill from turtle creek on Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:00 pm

I have no problem with Godard fighting somebody because they are trying to run Crosby. In fact, I have no problem with Godard fighting somebody because they are trying to run Godard. I don't even really care if Godard and Cote fight each other for no reason. However, I refuse to believe that such gimmicky bouts are an intrinsic part of the game, or are necessary.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Skeletons of Quinto on Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:57 pm

Smizik again shows that he possesses the reasoning and logic of a five year old.

Fallacy
Some A are B
B is useless
------
Therefore, get rid of A


Look, I see the absurdity in the scripted heavyweight bouts that occur in the NHL. Do I think they're useless? Sure. They rarely have an outcome on the game. Laraque, the heavyweight champ, spent time in Phoenix when they were in the toilet. However, I don't see a reason to get rid of these types of fights. There is a huge demographic of NHL fans that love them (see hockeyfights.com). Abolishing those types of fights would, in my estimation, alienate far more established fans than it would entice new ones to watch games.

Moreover, Smizik fails to recognize that some fights actually do serve a legitimate purpose. Aside from fighters (not using the word "enforcers" here because that term is typically relegated to the likes of Godard, Laraque etc.) protecting star players - which does occur, no matter how much you'd like to deny it- a good fight can spark a team. For instance, Ruutu's slugfest with Tucker last season was a turning point in that game. Smizik fails to differentiate the latter type of fight from the pre-determined heavyweight frays.

As an aside, if there really are prospective fans out there who shy away from the NHL because of fighting, what's next? If there are people drawn to the game due to abolition of fighting, aren't we fairly close to an anti-checking lobby, as well?

Leave the game alone. It's fine.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby Skeletons of Quinto on Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:58 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:I have no problem with Godard fighting somebody because they are trying to run Crosby. In fact, I have no problem with Godard fighting somebody because they are trying to run Godard. I don't even really care if Godard and Cote fight each other for no reason. However, I refuse to believe that such gimmicky bouts are an intrinsic part of the game, or are necessary.


I agree with you to a large extent, Bill. But where do you draw the line? Do you ban fights that occur off of a faceoff?
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby bill from turtle creek on Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:21 pm

Hell if I know. It's a cultural thing. These stupid drop-the-puck-turn-and-look-at-opponent-and-drop-gloves things didn't happen 15 years ago. Somehow they evolved in, and maybe somehow they will evolve out.

I don't care if they do it; it surely is mildly entertaining, as long as our guy (whoever it is) doesn't get pounded too badly. But let's be real here: it's not hockey. The aggravating thing is that these kinds of fights occur, but when someone is out and out trying to maim Malkin, nothing happens.
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Re: Fighting is beneath Bozo The Columnist.

Postby WWGRD on Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:31 pm

No, people still fought off of face-offs 15 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfT-K7YCDx

Here's one for example
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