There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby czwalga on Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:08 am

In 170 games staal has 31 assists. I dont care what his future value is or what he could turn into, this team is going no where in the playoffs if that is your 2nd line center.



Also his first season his shooting percentage was .221% that's why he scored 29 goals; he'll never ever touch anywhere close to that number again, that was a mirage.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:52 am

czwalga wrote:In 170 games staal has 31 assists. I dont care what his future value is or what he could turn into, this team is going no where in the playoffs if that is your 2nd line center.



Also his first season his shooting percentage was .221% that's why he scored 29 goals; he'll never ever touch anywhere close to that number again, that was a mirage.


Once again, stats don't tell the story for how well Staal has played in the playoffs. He did the little things the last 2 seasons in the playoffs that nobody noticed. And with the experience he has gained through the last 2 playoff years, how can anyone not believe that he's only going to get better around that time.

As for his goals and shooting % his rookie year...whose to say he's never going to hit that number again (goals wise)? Patiency is key right now for everyone whose down on Staal.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby czwalga on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:05 am

Why So Serious? wrote:
czwalga wrote:In 170 games staal has 31 assists. I dont care what his future value is or what he could turn into, this team is going no where in the playoffs if that is your 2nd line center.



Also his first season his shooting percentage was .221% that's why he scored 29 goals; he'll never ever touch anywhere close to that number again, that was a mirage.


Once again, stats don't tell the story for how well Staal has played in the playoffs. He did the little things the last 2 seasons in the playoffs that nobody noticed. And with the experience he has gained through the last 2 playoff years, how can anyone not believe that he's only going to get better around that time.

As for his goals and shooting % his rookie year...whose to say he's never going to hit that number again (goals wise)? Patiency is key right now for everyone whose down on Staal.



I've seen the 'little' things he's done. If we can keep him for 2 million or less per year as a THIRD line center, fine. Somehow I dont think he'd go for that type of deal.

He may hit that number... but why should we pay a lot to find out if he might? That is something a developing team would do, this team should not have to wait 2-3 more years for stone hands to develop. That's why you trade him if the numbers are right.

Shero and Staal are the only ones that know the answer to this question, but look at it this way; MT just said he's putting staal back on the third lines where he belongs. That gives me the idea that shero said staal needs to be on the 2nd line wing, or else he's not going to fit on this team. I mean even last year I said if staal has a future on this team it's on the 2nd line wing; if he can't successfully do that and doesn't accept a 3rd line role player salary, then he needs to be traded.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby penny lane on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:05 am

I agree there might be less glamour involved with shutting down another team's star/stars, but when done right it is as beautiful as seeing a goalie make saves. I always think of Joel Otto and Joe Niewudyke from past cup teams as the perfect 3rd line types~ until Jordan gets there.

Zetterberg against Sid, 1st time I saw a forward cover him well~ didn't make Sid a non factor, just frustrated him and limited his space during the early detroit games especially. Zetterberg sacrifice his own offense for the most part, during the finals. Third line center different circumstances but after the same result.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Rocco on Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:36 am

Three Stars wrote:
tombarrassorules wrote:because you already have a few 3rd line centers that are capable of getting it done under contract. staal is do for a payday, and when it comes down to it, you can move him for a competent winger.


The Penguins have settled for "getting it done" from their 3rd liners for years. Interesting that the first year that they advance in the playoffs is the first year they have Jordan Staal as 3rd line center. Someone's gotta prevent the goals, and if they can do so at a high level, that's just as valuable as a scoring role.

The value of a (potentially) elite 3rd line center is criminally underestimated around here.


Sure, although top line winger> 3rd line center. The Pens are one winger short right now with Staal failing miserably. The Pens needed to replace Hossa and Malone on the top lines (and probably should replace Dupuis, but he's competent enough that no one is questioning the bizarre fascination with him on the first line). The Pens signed Satan to replace Hossa, and promoted Staal to fill Malone's role. Satan's been fine, Staal hasn't. I'm not sure who on the team can do the job if Staal fails there this season.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby DelPen on Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:56 am

I think it's worth a looks to have Talbot center the 2nd line with Malkin on the LW. This would give Malkin more freedom on offense and have Talbot take the draws. Would him centering Malkin and Sykora be any worse than when Jagr was centered by Hrdina?

Let Staal do his shut-down thing with Kennedy and Cooke on the 3rd line, they may not score more than the occasional goal but I think everyone would agree they would be tough as nails to play agaisnt.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:59 am

Three Stars wrote:
tombarrassorules wrote:because you already have a few 3rd line centers that are capable of getting it done under contract. staal is do for a payday, and when it comes down to it, you can move him for a competent winger.


The Penguins have settled for "getting it done" from their 3rd liners for years. Interesting that the first year that they advance in the playoffs is the first year they have Jordan Staal as 3rd line center. Someone's gotta prevent the goals, and if they can do so at a high level, that's just as valuable as a scoring role.

The value of a (potentially) elite 3rd line center is criminally underestimated around here.


Perfect Post.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby IrishEyes on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:01 pm

Staal has been bugging for all 7 games of this season so far. And last night, I finally figured out why. I'm not a basher, I'm not a "trade (insert name here) now!", and I certainly don't get down on people without a reason.

Aside from the dumb penalties last night (which didn't even factor into my reason, here), what's bugging me most about Staal is that he can backcheck and play his own end fantastically. The kid's an amazing defensive player. But I swear once he hits the red line, it seems like that's where the problem is. I'm not calling it laziness, I'm not calling it being terrible. But something happens to Staal once he hits the red line, and it's almost like he just gives up in the offensive zone. He loses the puck, loses battles... but it doesn't happen in the defensive zone.

Just my two cents.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby cthulhuchrist on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:04 pm

Before the season started i was for Staal on wing. I figured it was just a sophmore slump and also thought that Talbot deserved the third line spot. Talbot still does but at this point it looks like Staal is most effective on the third line as well. As far as trading him, i would wait to see what kind of money he wants.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby czwalga on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:21 pm

IrishEyes wrote:Staal has been bugging for all 7 games of this season so far. And last night, I finally figured out why. I'm not a basher, I'm not a "trade (insert name here) now!", and I certainly don't get down on people without a reason.

Aside from the dumb penalties last night (which didn't even factor into my reason, here), what's bugging me most about Staal is that he can backcheck and play his own end fantastically. The kid's an amazing defensive player. But I swear once he hits the red line, it seems like that's where the problem is. I'm not calling it laziness, I'm not calling it being terrible. But something happens to Staal once he hits the red line, and it's almost like he just gives up in the offensive zone. He loses the puck, loses battles... but it doesn't happen in the defensive zone.

Just my two cents.



It's because he has stone hands. You're right he's great breaking up plays etc. but has no feel or touch with the puck.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Jim on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:24 pm

The shame is NOT in being a solid 3rd line shut-down center... the shame IS in wanting $4M a year.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Pens4Life on Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:55 pm

Staal proved that he cant be 1st or 2nd line winger,soo yeah he should except 3rd line C spot.. No biggie there..
But then we will have to break up Geno-Sid duo again,but soo what.. Sid will play with Pascal and Miro and SuperGenie will play with Petr and maybe TK
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby SMTM on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:05 pm

Jim wrote:The shame is NOT in being a solid 3rd line shut-down center... the shame IS in wanting $4M a year.



I could not have aritculated this better myself. The rub is that I think that he expects that, and therefore his days on this team are numbered if he digs in. He simply does not deserve big money, regardless of "potential".
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:21 pm

Jim wrote:The shame is NOT in being a solid 3rd line shut-down center... the shame IS in wanting $4M a year.


He wants $4M the same way Orpik was never going to stay here right? And by that I mean that idea has been manufactured by...you? I'm sure he'd prefer to make that money but I've seen nothing from him to indicate that he would ask for way more money than he's worth.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby SMTM on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:25 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Jim wrote:The shame is NOT in being a solid 3rd line shut-down center... the shame IS in wanting $4M a year.


He wants $4M the same way Orpik was never going to stay here right? And by that I mean that idea has been manufactured by...you? I'm sure he'd prefer to make that money but I've seen nothing from him to indicate that he would ask for way more money than he's worth.



He has not said anything, true. But, there is a lot of articles in newspapers, internet, etc. that seem to throw that number around quite a bit. So it is not just Jim that is making that up. I guess we will see.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby skullman80 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:26 pm

I still think someone is going to give him a pretty big offer sheet. Someone will pay on "potential", if that happens I hope we take the picks.

THat being said, if he can be signed for a reasonable price.. I'm ok with it. I don't know if his offense will ever come back but he can be a key piece to this team now and in the future if he's your 3rd line center/checking line guy.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Eismann on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:34 pm

The other shame is in thinking that he's actually "shutting down" anything. He gets in the way, which has a certain level of utility, but he's at least got to skate harder. Hoping he regains his form.
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