There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:12 pm

tombarrassorules wrote:
bhaw wrote:
tombarrassorules wrote:im not saying the guy has to go but 18:47 is way too much time for him to be on the ice. if it was cut in half, id be okay. he's on the ice entirely too much for his level of play. there are guys that are putting in solid performances like kennedy and talbot that are playing less but because staal scored a bunch 2 years ago he gets the extra shifts. im not saying those guys are great, but staal isnt any better.



When you are on the top PK line, your ice time increases. In order for his ice time to go down, he would have to go on the 4th line. A guy doesn't break a funk by not playing in situations where he can score.



HE WAS IN THE BOX TWICE!!!!!!!!!!!! thats time hes you know, sitting, not on the ice killing penalties which is what hes supposed to be good at. thats almost 4 minutes he isnt killing penalties tonight.


And yet he was still only 13 seconds behind the leading penalty killing forward. So thats even more of his time on ice in which he's not in a scoring position.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby chaos5190 on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:15 pm

I said it before and I'll say it again. Shoulda drafted Towes. I don't mind Staal all that much, but it's so clear that Towes could be our second line center, and Sid and Geno could be on the top line. Towes is a shutdown second line center who can contribute offensively as well as defensively.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:16 pm

Oh...for God's sake...will you Staal apologists stop. This is his 3rd year!!!


LOL. That's practically the same thing as someone pointing out it's only been seven games.

Just think about how silly the statement you made looked when people used it on Fluery, Orpik, and Malone. Staal's younger than any of them were in their first full seasons... in his third.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:18 pm

I agree that they should have drafted Toews, and I thought so at the time too, but I don't see it as a major mistake.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby wallflower on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:20 pm

I find it humorous that when talking about how "horrible" Staal is & has been, people ignore how great he's been in the playoffs, as though those games don't count.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby bhaw on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:21 pm

If we get rid of Staal, who takes his place? Caputi isn't ready and we don't really have a heck of a lot of fire power laying around and replacing a top PK forward isn't THAT easy. The team is winning even with his earth shatteringly poor performances, so why not let the kid play?
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:21 pm

wallflower wrote:I find it humorous that when talking about how "horrible" Staal is & has been, people ignore how great he's been in the playoffs, as though those games don't count.


I was just about to say, he can put up a goal and no assists every season while playing 20 minutes a game if he keeps performing in the playoffs the way he has thus far.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby SMTM on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:22 pm

All right then. For those that think that we should lay off Staal for being young, inexperienced, soft, or whatever excuse you want to give him, pretend to be the GM. What do you do when his contract is up? Do you let sign an offersheet? Do you sign him, and for how much? Or do you trade him?
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby wallflower on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:24 pm

SMTM wrote:All right then. For those that think that we should lay off Staal for being young, inexperienced, soft, or whatever excuse you want to give him, pretend to be the GM. What do you do when his contract is up? Do you let sign an offersheet? Do you sign him, and for how much? Or do you trade him?

I would wait until he's played more than seven games into the season before making ANY judgements on how his season (and subsequently, his possible contract) shake out.

But that's just me.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby bhaw on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:26 pm

SMTM wrote:All right then. For those that think that we should lay off Staal for being young, inexperienced, soft, or whatever excuse you want to give him, pretend to be the GM. What do you do when his contract is up? Do you let sign an offersheet? Do you sign him, and for how much? Or do you trade him?


You offer him what you think he's worth. If he says he wants to see what he can get after July 1st, you let him. If he doesn't improve (he will), he won't get the money he wants from anyone. If we offer 2M and he gets an offer sheet for 2.5M, you match it and be done with it. There's still 75 games plus playoffs though, so it's impossible to really say what a good strategy would be at this point.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby purelebo84 on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:26 pm

Great thread. It's so true.

Staal may not like it, but the reality is that he sucks on the wing, and could be the best third line center in hockey.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby SMTM on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm

Does anybody know what Eric Staal got for his post rookie contract? And how long was it?
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm

SMTM wrote:All right then. For those that think that we should lay off Staal for being young, inexperienced, soft, or whatever excuse you want to give him, pretend to be the GM. What do you do when his contract is up? Do you let sign an offersheet? Do you sign him, and for how much? Or do you trade him?


Whats gonna happen is that he is gonna have a better year than last year and sign a one year contract worth something like $2.5 million and then see what happens next year. No way do you let someone sign an offer sheet. If he is playing like this in his last year of RFA, which he wont be, then you let him get signed for 3-4 million and take a few picks.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby KG on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:41 pm

cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Staal would probably do best as a third line shut down center. Problem is, Shero wouldnt look to bright drafting a third line center 2nd overall.


Exactly...3rd line defesive centers can be had anywhere...They are nothing speical...2nd overall picks are slotted for franchise players...
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby wallflower on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:53 pm

I remember early last season, someone said they hoped Orpik would break his hand so he wouldn't be in the line up anymore and, currently, he's the Pens' best defenseman. With such incredible insight being espoused around here, as if it's any wonder I can't take most of this analysis seriously.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby SMTM on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:55 pm

wallflower wrote:I remember early last season, someone said they hoped Orpik would break his hand so he wouldn't be in the line up anymore and, currently, he's the Pens' best defenseman. With such incredible insight being espoused around here, as if it's any wonder I can't take most of this analysis seriously.



Funny, Orpik was guilty of the exact things you are defending Staal for. Maybe Staal should be a 4th line winger for a few games...
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby KG on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:56 pm

wallflower wrote:I remember early last season, someone said they hoped Orpik would break his hand so he wouldn't be in the line up anymore and, currently, he's the Pens' best defenseman. With such incredible insight being espoused around here, as if it's any wonder I can't take most of this analysis seriously.


I don't care how much of a Pens fan you are, it is impossible to defend Staal's play at this point, offensively....Defensively, he is a very good player/penalty killer...He has been that for the first 2 years of his career. His offensive game has gone down hill drastically.

He generates nothing offensively. He can't get a shot off before he gets knocked off the puck...He is playing with zero confidence. And now he is taking stupid penatlies...

Time to sit down for a game...
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby wallflower on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:58 pm

SMTM wrote:
wallflower wrote:I remember early last season, someone said they hoped Orpik would break his hand so he wouldn't be in the line up anymore and, currently, he's the Pens' best defenseman. With such incredible insight being espoused around here, as if it's any wonder I can't take most of this analysis seriously.



Funny, Orpik was guilty of the exact things you are defending Staal for. Maybe Staal should be a 4th line winger for a few games...

The point is, when they're developing, players struggle. If they're good, they come out on the other side. But it takes more than a few games into the season to get there. Especially considering that he's not playing as poorly as so many seem to think.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:58 pm

SMTM wrote:
wallflower wrote:I remember early last season, someone said they hoped Orpik would break his hand so he wouldn't be in the line up anymore and, currently, he's the Pens' best defenseman. With such incredible insight being espoused around here, as if it's any wonder I can't take most of this analysis seriously.



Funny, Orpik was guilty of the exact things you are defending Staal for. Maybe Staal should be a 4th line winger for a few games...


No he wasn't, Orpik was guilty of being out of position, people complain that Staal isn't hitting and isn't shooting well. But mostly they are complaining about him being "bad", but don't elaborate and when they do, don't cite examples.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Why So Serious? on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:59 pm

tombarrassorules wrote:i dont buy this 7 games thing. didnt he play all of last season?


Yes and he played all of the season before that when he amassed 29 goals.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:00 am

Why So Serious? wrote:
tombarrassorules wrote:i dont buy this 7 games thing. didnt he play all of last season?


Yes and he played all of the season before that when he amassed 29 goals.


And he also played most of last season as a center, and looked good doing it.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby wallflower on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:01 am

KG wrote:
wallflower wrote:I remember early last season, someone said they hoped Orpik would break his hand so he wouldn't be in the line up anymore and, currently, he's the Pens' best defenseman. With such incredible insight being espoused around here, as if it's any wonder I can't take most of this analysis seriously.


I don't care how much of a Pens fan you are, it is impossible to defend Staal's play at this point, offensively....Defensively, he is a very good player/penalty killer...He has been that for the first 2 years of his career. His offensive game has gone down hill drastically.

He generates nothing offensively. He can't get a shot off before he gets knocked off the puck...He is playing with zero confidence. And now he is taking stupid penatlies...

Time to sit down for a game...

If he's playing good defensively, I see no reason to sit him. Offensively, it's a confidence thing - him spending a game in the press box does nothing to give him more confidence.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby SMTM on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:02 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Why So Serious? wrote:
tombarrassorules wrote:i dont buy this 7 games thing. didnt he play all of last season?


Yes and he played all of the season before that when he amassed 29 goals.


And he also played most of last season as a center, and looked good doing it.



Right. You and I finallu agree. He looked good doing it. A third line center. Hence the topic of this long, meandering, confrontational thread.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:02 am

Especially if your top two players are going to continue to play on the same line, NO WAY you sit Jordan Staal. His confidence is only going to go up with the more he plays. It's not going to be good for his confidence if he's sitting in the press box for a game or two.
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Re: There is no shame in being a 3rd line shut down center.

Postby KG on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:03 am

They should just leave him at 3rd line center. I read in the paper's today that MT said Staal is a much better C then W. So leave him in the 3rd line center capacity...Unfortunately that leaves a big hole on the top 2 lines offensively. But he can't do it yet...
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