IF and I said IF a trade went down...

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IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby marek on Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:48 am

IF and I said IF a trade went down... I'm curious to see what the board would like to get back (or who would offer fair trade value and or be a logical partner) for Staal and the Pens?

There are a number of big name players out there that are approaching FA and are in an unhappy situation.
Gaborik for one, Bouwmeister is another... But besides Minn and Florida, other teams that could use a centerman like Jordan could be Colorado, Carolina and even Edmonton...

Could you imagine Dustin Penner on Sids wing?
Or Wolski with Malkin/Sid?
And he's expensive but if we could part with Sydor and Fedotenko....
Bouwmeister would make our defense as good as any in the league...
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:51 am

Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby André on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:23 am

You're curious to see what this board would like in return for Staal and missed the thread entitled "what would you take for staal?"? :D
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Senka on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:33 am

i hope staal gets 40 goals... and someone gives up 3 first rounders for him...
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby marek on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:39 am

André wrote:You're curious to see what this board would like in return for Staal and missed the thread entitled "what would you take for staal?"? :D


No... i saw it. That thread was dead mainly because it was void of any possible trades.
It became a sounding board of his recent performances not a discussion about his trade value.

If everyone thinks he sucks then what do they hope to get for him?!?!?!?
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby marek on Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:41 am

meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?


Finally, a logical poster. Thank you. I should have phrased my post better.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby JoseCuervo on Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:05 am

meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?


Finger..Toronto...
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby purelebo84 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:59 am

JoseCuervo wrote:
meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?


Finger..Toronto...

That was free agency, not a trade.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby nape on Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:38 am

meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?


Most people feel that Staal is playing out of position on the the Pens. The feeling is that a lot of teams would kill to have a 20 year old with the physical skills Staal has. There's a ton of potential and may be worth a chance for a team that will be losing one of their stars at the end of the season. That being said, if hes gets traded, it probably won't happen til the trading deadline.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:03 am

Senka wrote:i hope staal gets 40 goals... and signs a long-term deal in Pittsburgh...


Fixed.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby JoseCuervo on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:12 am

purelebo84 wrote:
JoseCuervo wrote:
meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?


Finger..Toronto...

That was free agency, not a trade.


still, teams will overpay for potential. I think a lot of people still see potential in staal.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:56 am

Staal/Letang for Bowmeister/Horton
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby AricM on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:04 am

Staal to LA for Frolov!

I can see Gonchar getting traded if either Goligoski or Letang prove they can man the PP and log big time minutes.
Last edited by AricM on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Firebird on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:05 am

marek wrote:IF and I said IF a trade went down... I'm curious to see what the board would like to get back (or who would offer fair trade value and or be a logical partner) for Staal and the Pens?

There are a number of big name players out there that are approaching FA and are in an unhappy situation.
Gaborik for one, Bouwmeister is another... But besides Minn and Florida, other teams that could use a centerman like Jordan could be Colorado, Carolina and even Edmonton...

Could you imagine Dustin Penner on Sids wing?
Or Wolski with Malkin/Sid?
And he's expensive but if we could part with Sydor and Fedotenko....
Bouwmeister would make our defense as good as any in the league...



Trading them two people who will be UFA next year. Be realistic.

And if we start trading people we signed for one year, it won't help us sign people in the future for 1 year.

This is if Fedo and Satan don't have NTC's. I'm pretty sure they would.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Kicksave on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:08 am

AricM wrote:Staal to LA for Frolov!

I can see Gonchar getting traded if either Goligoski or Letang prove they can man the PP and log big time minutes.


that's be territory, budday.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby KG on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:14 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:Staal/Letang for Bowmeister/Horton



I wish...Florida has no reason to move Horton..Bouwmester will be moved because he is a pending UFA.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Kraftster on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:16 am

Colorado does not need a center. Paul Stastny and Joe Sakic are centering their top 2 lines right now, and, if/when Sakic retires next year, ultra talented T.J. Hensick will finally get a spot in the lineup. Colorado wouldn't dare trade a valuable chip for anything but a goalie right now. Also, I'd think they'd rather not have a 2 RFA situation with Stastny and Staal this coming offseason.

Edmonton does not need a center. They already have Cogliano playing wing on the second line. Horcoff is a worthy first-line center. They traded for Gilbert Brule in the offseason, and, have Brodziak and Pouliot as well as Schremp perpetually a call-up away.

The team that is desperate for a big second-line center right now is Chicago. They are not a great partner because, as is evident from the firing of Denis Savard, they are trying to win right now. The Pens main interest, I would think, I would be in Havlat. Trading a healthy Havlat for Jordan Staal decreases their chances of winning right now even though it would be a good longterm move for them. Additionally, Chicago's biggest chip not on the big club, Cam Barker, seems a bit duplicative for the Pens, even if he'd be a slight upgrade.

Atlanta has needed a center since they inexplicably let Marc Savard walk. Again, nothing of interest in return unless Slava Kozlov ressurects his season and Waddel pulls a Coburn and gives up on Bogosian this year :)
But, I wouldn't really expect the Eastern Conference to be in contention anyway.

Minnesota would probably be a great fit for Staal given their playing style, but, who knows how much longer Lemaire will be there, I have read that it won't be much longer. And even then, Minny has Koivu as their top center for years to come and James Sheppard is much like Staal in terms of expectations of a second line center and struggling to this point.

The team that I really think might be a trade partner is Vancouver. It seems very unclear what they will do with the Sedins this offseason, and, Gillis has been dying to make a huge splash. Unfortunately, the Canucks best NHL trade chips are on D, as they are kind of thin up front. But, if Gillis wants to make a splash, perhaps the Pens could get one of, or even both, Mason Raymond and Michael Grabner. Both guys would instantly upgrade the Pens thin crop of young scoring wingers. I haven't heard much about Grabner and why he is not on the big team yet, but, I saw Raymond a few times this preseason and was very impressed.

Anyway, bottom line, its all speculation and you are not going to see a conservative GM like Ray Shero give up on AND trade Jordan Staal anytime soon. Whether that is the right move or not has been argued on this site for days, but, looking at what Shero has shown us so far, he's not going to be looking to trade Staal.
Last edited by Kraftster on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby KG on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:22 am

Kraftster wrote:Colorado does not need a center. Paul Stastny and Joe Sakic are centering their top 2 lines right now, and, if/when Sakic retires next year, ultra talented T.J. Hensick will finally get a spot in the lineup. Colorado wouldn't dare trade a valuable chip for anything but a goalie right now. Also, I'd think they'd rather not have a 2 RFA situation with Stastny and Staal this coming offseason.

Edmonton does not need a center. They already have Cogliano playing wing on the second line. Horcoff is a worthy first-line center. They traded for Gilbert Brule in the offseason, and, have Brodziak and Pouliot as well as Schremp perpetually a call-up away.

The team that is desperate for a big second-line center right now is Chicago. They are not a great partner because, as is evident from the firing of Denis Savard, they are trying to win right now. The Pens main interest, I would think, I would be in Havlat. Trading a healthy Havlat for Jordan Staal decreases their chances of winning right now even though it would be a good longterm move for them. Additionally, Chicago's biggest chip not on the big club, Cam Barker, seems a bit duplicative for the Pens, even if he'd be a slight upgrade.

Atlanta has needed a center since they inexplicably let Marc Savard walk. Again, nothing of interest in return unless Slava Kozlov ressurects his season and Waddel pulls a Coburn and gives up on Bogosian this year :)
But, I wouldn't really expect the Eastern Conference to be in contention anyway.

Minnesota would probably be a great fit for Staal given their playing style, but, who knows how much longer Lemaire will be there, I have read that it won't be much longer. And even then, Minny has Koivu as their top center for years to come and James Sheppard is much like Staal in terms of expectations of a second line center and struggling to this point.

The team that I really think might be a trade partner is Vancouver. It seems very unclear what they will do with the Sedins this offseason, and, Gillis has been dying to make a huge splash. Unfortunately, the Canucks best NHL trade chips are on D, as they are kind of thin up front. But, if Gillis wants to make a splash, perhaps the Pens could get one of, or even both, Mason Raymond and Michael Grabner. Both guys would instantly upgrade the Pens thin crop of young scoring wingers. I haven't heard much about Grabner and why he is not on the big team yet, but, I saw Raymond a few times this offseason and was very impressed.

Anyway, bottom line, its all speculation and you are not going to see a conservative GM like Ray Shero give up on AND trade Jordan Staal anytime soon. Whether that is the right move or not has been argued on this site for days, but, looking at what Shero has shown us so far, he's not going to be looking to trade Staal.



Krafter. Great post. Nice read...I agree with your assessment. Havlat would be someone I see the pens targeting, during the off season as he is a UFA at seasons end...
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Pitts on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:49 am

meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?

Well, the worthless junk of Christensen, Armstrong and Esposito got us a pretty good return. GM's who are handcuffed by a UFA who refuses to sign with them are pretty much "stuck" with the crap other GM's offer.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby meecrofilm on Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:19 am

Pitts wrote:
meecrofilm wrote:Seriously, someone explain this to me. If Staal is so worthless, how can people expect some grand return for him if the Pens traded him?

Well, the worthless junk of Christensen, Armstrong and Esposito got us a pretty good return. GM's who are handcuffed by a UFA who refuses to sign with them are pretty much "stuck" with the crap other GM's offer.


We can't trade for rental players every year. Any trades made this year will be for guys under contract or guys that we can fit under the cap.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby mikey287 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:18 pm

marek wrote:Could you imagine Dustin Penner on Sids wing?


I'm sorry, but this made me laugh out loud...you had the pick of all the league's good players and you pick an overweight, overrated player that couldn't keep up with Pascal Dupuis much less Sidney Crosby? :lol: :lol: :lol: No offense, but there's 50 better wingers that I could name off the top of my head than Penner, especially at that ridiculous contract, I'd rather have Malone at his than Penner at his...yeah, I said it.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby Jim on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:27 pm

Staal would have "more" value to a team that plays a defensive minded game.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby pfim on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:30 pm

Jim wrote:Staal would have "more" value to a team that plays a defensive minded game.



And that team should be the Pens, especially when the lineup is designed as 1 scoring line and 3 "holding" lines.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:33 pm

KG wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Staal/Letang for Bowmeister/Horton



I wish...Florida has no reason to move Horton..Bouwmester will be moved because he is a pending UFA.


From Florida's perspective, they would be getting 2 young players with lots of potential for the price of 1, since they are losing Bouwmester anyway. But yeah, I don't see this trade likely but I would love it if it happened lol.
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Re: IF and I said IF a trade went down...

Postby marek on Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:53 pm

Kraftster wrote:Colorado does not need a center. Paul Stastny and Joe Sakic are centering their top 2 lines right now, and, if/when Sakic retires next year, ultra talented T.J. Hensick will finally get a spot in the lineup. Colorado wouldn't dare trade a valuable chip for anything but a goalie right now. Also, I'd think they'd rather not have a 2 RFA situation with Stastny and Staal this coming offseason.

Edmonton does not need a center. They already have Cogliano playing wing on the second line. Horcoff is a worthy first-line center. They traded for Gilbert Brule in the offseason, and, have Brodziak and Pouliot as well as Schremp perpetually a call-up away.

The team that is desperate for a big second-line center right now is Chicago. They are not a great partner because, as is evident from the firing of Denis Savard, they are trying to win right now. The Pens main interest, I would think, I would be in Havlat. Trading a healthy Havlat for Jordan Staal decreases their chances of winning right now even though it would be a good longterm move for them. Additionally, Chicago's biggest chip not on the big club, Cam Barker, seems a bit duplicative for the Pens, even if he'd be a slight upgrade.

Atlanta has needed a center since they inexplicably let Marc Savard walk. Again, nothing of interest in return unless Slava Kozlov ressurects his season and Waddel pulls a Coburn and gives up on Bogosian this year :)
But, I wouldn't really expect the Eastern Conference to be in contention anyway.

Minnesota would probably be a great fit for Staal given their playing style, but, who knows how much longer Lemaire will be there, I have read that it won't be much longer. And even then, Minny has Koivu as their top center for years to come and James Sheppard is much like Staal in terms of expectations of a second line center and struggling to this point.

The team that I really think might be a trade partner is Vancouver. It seems very unclear what they will do with the Sedins this offseason, and, Gillis has been dying to make a huge splash. Unfortunately, the Canucks best NHL trade chips are on D, as they are kind of thin up front. But, if Gillis wants to make a splash, perhaps the Pens could get one of, or even both, Mason Raymond and Michael Grabner. Both guys would instantly upgrade the Pens thin crop of young scoring wingers. I haven't heard much about Grabner and why he is not on the big team yet, but, I saw Raymond a few times this preseason and was very impressed.

Anyway, bottom line, its all speculation and you are not going to see a conservative GM like Ray Shero give up on AND trade Jordan Staal anytime soon. Whether that is the right move or not has been argued on this site for days, but, looking at what Shero has shown us so far, he's not going to be looking to trade Staal.


Great post. This is exactly what I was hoping for... a breakdown of potential suitors.
For example, I had no idea colorado had a stockpile of young centerman... you just keep hearing about sakic calling it quits and you look at their roster and you say "uh-oh"
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