Recchi in the Hall?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Daniel87 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:13 pm

Guinness wrote:
Daniel87 wrote:
What are you saying? Does being 14th all time make him a great player?


Um... Yes.


Im just confused to why you are questioning me.


You said this... and I completely agree.

I like Recchi, but if he a) doesn't start his career w/Mario, and b) hang around forever, are we even having this discussion? Being good for a long time doesn't make you great.


Obviously if you are a good player, remain healthy, and play with superstars then the points will come. Now I was only 4 years old when Recchi started with the Pens, so im no expert. But from what I've seen he was a very good player in his prime. However if he left the NHL shortly after his prime do I think he'd make the hall? Maybe not. The points he got afterwards on a consistent basis is what will put him over the top.
Daniel87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,077
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:06 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Daniel87 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:20 pm

My bad that was Rocco who said that.

To answer your question, being 14th doesn't make you great, but you have to be a pretty damn good player to be 14th. Theres no doubt he would not be close to 14 if he hadn't played with the great players he did throughout his career, but the point is he did and succeeded at it. Based on the standards of other players in the hall Recchi should be in there too.
Daniel87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,077
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:06 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:28 pm

guaranteed HOF for recks
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,054
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby JS© on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:34 am

Steve wrote:Yes, and sorry if this has already been posted here:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 822AAlmwLV


Yep, it's been posted in the Racchi's Rug thread. I admitted to posting the question. Corvidae and Yuengling Black and Tans get assists for that brilliant answer.

Staying on topic, I'd say yes. Longevity or not, he was a dominant player in the 90s and early 00s. Maybe he doesn't have the hardware to back that, but being in the league for 20 years and having 1300+ pts to the resume is still impressive.
JS©
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,268
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:52 am
Location: hiding behind a random red couch

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Eismann on Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:56 am

Hardware-less as they were, the 90's Flyers with Recchi were pretty tehAwesome and he was a big part of it. Tack that on to his play here and his career stats = HOF
Eismann
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,774
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:14 am
Location: Zeros

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby DelPen on Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:49 am

Eismann wrote:Hardware-less as they were, the 90's Flyers with Recchi were pretty tehAwesome and he was a big part of it. Tack that on to his play here and his career stats = HOF


Recchi was in Montreal from 1995 to the end of 1999 where the Flyers lost in the 1st round, how could he have been a big part of the Flyers success then?
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 32,140
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Eismann on Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:59 am

DelPen wrote:
Eismann wrote:Hardware-less as they were, the 90's Flyers with Recchi were pretty tehAwesome and he was a big part of it. Tack that on to his play here and his career stats = HOF


Recchi was in Montreal from 1995 to the end of 1999 where the Flyers lost in the 1st round, how could he have been a big part of the Flyers success then?


Ipps...Meant the '00+ Flyers (though he was with them in '99, i think).
Eismann
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,774
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:14 am
Location: Zeros

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby laholm64 on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:03 am

DelPen wrote:
Eismann wrote:Hardware-less as they were, the 90's Flyers with Recchi were pretty tehAwesome and he was a big part of it. Tack that on to his play here and his career stats = HOF


Recchi was in Montreal from 1995 to the end of 1999 where the Flyers lost in the 1st round, how could he have been a big part of the Flyers success then?


fyi, I got this from Wikipedia:
"He played for Philadelphia from 1992 to 1995 as part of the "Crazy Eights" line, including a 53 goal, 70 assist, 123 point season in 1992–93, still the Flyers single-season point scoring record. In 1995, he was traded to the Montreal Canadiens in a deal for Éric Desjardins and John Leclair, but was reaccquired by the Flyers for the 1998–99 season, and was consistently among their top scorers.

During the 1999–2000 season, he was a finalist for the Lester B. Pearson trophy as NHLPA MVP and he finished third in scoring, only 5 points behind Jaromír Jágr. In 2000 and 2004, the Flyers would make the Eastern Conference Finals but they would bow out of each series in seven games."

I also shows he made 9 All Star teams.
laholm64
 

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby bill from turtle creek on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:57 am

It's amusing that there are idiots out there who think a player can get over 520 goals and over 1300 points, and it's all because he played with great players. Never mind that these players were on 3 different teams during the years that he accumulated all of these points. Recchi simply scored in mega-amounts wherever he was, in juniors, in the AHL, and finally in the NHL. Anybody who thinks that all of this was a by-product of playing with good players is a fool. Penguin history alone is filled with players who have played with Jagr, Lemieux, and Crosby who simply cannot score no matter what.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that he will be at worst a second-ballet HOFer. He'll more likely go in on the first ballot.
bill from turtle creek
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Serenity Now, Serenity Now.

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Kicksave on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:58 am

bill from turtle creek wrote:It's amusing that there are idiots out there who think a player can get over 520 goals and over 1300 points, and it's all because he played with great players. Never mind that these players were on 3 different teams during the years that he accumulated all of these points. Recchi simply scored in mega-amounts wherever he was, in juniors, in the AHL, and finally in the NHL. Anybody who thinks that all of this was a by-product of playing with good players is a fool. Penguin history alone is filled with players who have played with Jagr, Lemieux, and Crosby who simply cannot score no matter what.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that he will be at worst a second-ballet HOFer. He'll more likely go in on the first ballot.


I don't why you have to resort to name-calling. Not that I don't agree, but you don't have to do so in a condescending manor.
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Kovy27 on Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:05 am

Yes. He is hall worthy.
Kovy27
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 24,186
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:56 pm
Location: Break Down the Walls of Kovy27

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Sams_Dog on Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:13 pm

Yes IMO. He's put up the points with great players and with not so great ones. He delivered in the post season. he has 2 Cups. A few All Star Game appearances. If I'm not mistaken he played on a national team or two. 500 goals/1000 points is usually a good sign that a player will get in but a lot of guys are hitting those marks it seems lately.

I vote yes but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go on a second ballot. Remember, Glenn Anderson took a few years to get in and he had everything Recchi had and more.
Sams_Dog
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:57 pm
Location: Portland, ME

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Rocco on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:It's amusing that there are idiots out there who think a player can get over 520 goals and over 1300 points, and it's all because he played with great players. Never mind that these players were on 3 different teams during the years that he accumulated all of these points. Recchi simply scored in mega-amounts wherever he was, in juniors, in the AHL, and finally in the NHL. Anybody who thinks that all of this was a by-product of playing with good players is a fool. Penguin history alone is filled with players who have played with Jagr, Lemieux, and Crosby who simply cannot score no matter what.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that he will be at worst a second-ballet HOFer. He'll more likely go in on the first ballot.


He was not only fortunate enough to play with great players on some pretty good teams, but play the beginning of his career and beginning of his prime in a high-offense era. I don't think people truly appreciate this- in 1992-93, he was 10th in the NHL with 127 points. That would have led the league by 15 points last year. I'm not saying Recchi is John Cullen 2.0 or anything- his 91 points in 1999-00 disproves that- but simply pointing to his numbers and ignoring the era he played in overstates his case.

Again, I ask the same questions- was he ever the best player on his team? At his position in his conference? And new questions- is he any better than people who aren't in the HOF (i.e. Dino Ciccarelli)? Could you win a title with Mark Recchi as your best player?
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,076
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Eismann on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:52 pm

Rocco wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:It's amusing that there are idiots out there who think a player can get over 520 goals and over 1300 points, and it's all because he played with great players. Never mind that these players were on 3 different teams during the years that he accumulated all of these points. Recchi simply scored in mega-amounts wherever he was, in juniors, in the AHL, and finally in the NHL. Anybody who thinks that all of this was a by-product of playing with good players is a fool. Penguin history alone is filled with players who have played with Jagr, Lemieux, and Crosby who simply cannot score no matter what.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that he will be at worst a second-ballet HOFer. He'll more likely go in on the first ballot.


He was not only fortunate enough to play with great players on some pretty good teams, but play the beginning of his career and beginning of his prime in a high-offense era. I don't think people truly appreciate this- in 1992-93, he was 10th in the NHL with 127 points. That would have led the league by 15 points last year. I'm not saying Recchi is John Cullen 2.0 or anything- his 91 points in 1999-00 disproves that- but simply pointing to his numbers and ignoring the era he played in overstates his case.

Again, I ask the same questions- was he ever the best player on his team? At his position in his conference? And new questions- is he any better than people who aren't in the HOF (i.e. Dino Ciccarelli)? Could you win a title with Mark Recchi as your best player?


Ask yourself this question: is Mark Recchi famous? That gets you off the score sheet entirely. I say he is, but others would disagree.

I'm a big fan of keeping HOFs on a pretty tight entrance requirement, so they don't become Halls of Very Good.
Eismann
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,774
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:14 am
Location: Zeros

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby muffinarm on Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:40 pm

If Joey Mullen is in the HOF, then Recchi certainly is as well. You don't get to crack the top twenty of all time scorers without a long and productive career.
muffinarm
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,596
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Where's my deck of cards?

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Rocco on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:44 pm

muffinarm wrote:If Joey Mullen is in the HOF, then Recchi certainly is as well. You don't get to crack the top twenty of all time scorers without a long and productive career.


Mullen is in because he was born American. Whether or not that's a valid reason, it should be noted that his induction was based on reasons outside of his production on the ice. It's the reason why Cam Neely is in the HOF and Kevin Stevens likely won't sniff the HOF, even though Stevens had comparable numbers at their peak and was a big part of two teams that actually won things.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,076
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby laholm64 on Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:31 am

Rocco wrote:
muffinarm wrote:If Joey Mullen is in the HOF, then Recchi certainly is as well. You don't get to crack the top twenty of all time scorers without a long and productive career.


Mullen is in because he was born American. Whether or not that's a valid reason, it should be noted that his induction was based on reasons outside of his production on the ice. It's the reason why Cam Neely is in the HOF and Kevin Stevens likely won't sniff the HOF, even though Stevens had comparable numbers at their peak and was a big part of two teams that actually won things.


If Steven's hadn't been dumped on his nugget in that playoff game he certainly would have ended up being a HOFer, but that injury changed everything for him. He was never the same.
laholm64
 

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby burghsportsguys on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:25 pm

Rocco wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:It's amusing that there are idiots out there who think a player can get over 520 goals and over 1300 points, and it's all because he played with great players. Never mind that these players were on 3 different teams during the years that he accumulated all of these points. Recchi simply scored in mega-amounts wherever he was, in juniors, in the AHL, and finally in the NHL. Anybody who thinks that all of this was a by-product of playing with good players is a fool. Penguin history alone is filled with players who have played with Jagr, Lemieux, and Crosby who simply cannot score no matter what.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that he will be at worst a second-ballet HOFer. He'll more likely go in on the first ballot.


He was not only fortunate enough to play with great players on some pretty good teams, but play the beginning of his career and beginning of his prime in a high-offense era. I don't think people truly appreciate this- in 1992-93, he was 10th in the NHL with 127 points. That would have led the league by 15 points last year. I'm not saying Recchi is John Cullen 2.0 or anything- his 91 points in 1999-00 disproves that- but simply pointing to his numbers and ignoring the era he played in overstates his case.

Again, I ask the same questions- was he ever the best player on his team? At his position in his conference? And new questions- is he any better than people who aren't in the HOF (i.e. Dino Ciccarelli)? Could you win a title with Mark Recchi as your best player?


Agree, his numbers are great... Recchi the player was very good. I think he'll get in due to his numbers, not due to being one of the all-time greats. It depends what the Hall of Fame is all about. Who are the "bottom ten" wingers in the HoF today. Who are the top ten wingers NOT in the HoF... IMO, you look at those two lists and see on which side Recchi falls.

Is Rick Tocchet going to be a HoFer? I think these two fall on the same side.
burghsportsguys
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:01 pm

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby KG on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:31 pm

I did a quick Recchi/Tocchet comparison:

Tocchet 18 seasons: 1144 games 440 goals 512 assists 952 points .83 points per game

Recchi: 19 seasons: 1416 games 524 goals 859 assits 1383 points .98 points per game

Recchi was obviously the more dominant offensive player...

I don't know if that means Tocchet is or isn't a HOF'er...
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,851
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:34 pm

KG wrote:I did a quick Recchi/Tocchet comparison:

Tocchet 18 seasons: 1144 games 440 goals 512 assists 952 points .83 points per game

Recchi: 19 seasons: 1416 games 524 goals 859 assits 1383 points .98 points per game

Recchi was obviously the more dominant offensive player...

I don't know if that means Tocchet is or isn't a HOF'er...


You gotta take into account PIM per game.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,504
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby KG on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:39 pm

I was looking at more stats...Dale Hawerchuk was a machine offensively. He was also inducted into the HOF for good reason. But his career avg. points per game was 1.25, and that's taking into account the last few seasons he played for the Flyers/Blues when he wasn't that good...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... p?pid=2199

1188 games played 518 goals 891 assits 1490 points I know he played in the offensive era. But he was clearly one of the best of that era...
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,851
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby KG on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
KG wrote:I did a quick Recchi/Tocchet comparison:

Tocchet 18 seasons: 1144 games 440 goals 512 assists 952 points .83 points per game

Recchi: 19 seasons: 1416 games 524 goals 859 assits 1383 points .98 points per game

Recchi was obviously the more dominant offensive player...

I don't know if that means Tocchet is or isn't a HOF'er...


You gotta take into account PIM per game.


2972 pims for Tocchet
949 pims for Recchi...
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,851
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby laholm64 on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:54 pm

I've never heard of anyone getting into or not getting into the hall based on PIM. Some penalties are good, but most are bad. Being a physical presence is good, but being one of your teams best players and sitting half the game in the box is not good.
laholm64
 

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby burghsportsguys on Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:21 pm

KG wrote:I did a quick Recchi/Tocchet comparison:

Tocchet 18 seasons: 1144 games 440 goals 512 assists 952 points .83 points per game

Recchi: 19 seasons: 1416 games 524 goals 859 assits 1383 points .98 points per game

Recchi was obviously the more dominant offensive player...

I don't know if that means Tocchet is or isn't a HOF'er...


And that's one reason I don't think it's all about numbers. Tocchet brought things that Recchi didn't, so his value goes beyond the scoresheet. I'd agree that he's not the offensive player that MR was, but in their respective primes they were both very good players.

Without looking up numbers, some other guys I'd throw into that "very good, maybe not all-time greats" would be guys like Jeremy Roenick, Vinnie Damphousse, Nieuwendyk, Brind'Amour, etc. All of these guys were very good and had long careers, but all-time greats?
burghsportsguys
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:01 pm

Re: Recchi in the Hall?

Postby laholm64 on Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:31 am

Just for the fun of it I went to YouTube and looked up Recchi fights. Let me tell you something, for a little guy Recchi was quite the fighter. He put the smack down on on Rob Ray, Chris Chelios, Don Sweeney, Brian Smolinski and Brian Skrudland. He didn't necessarily win all those fights but he looked very impressive in all of them. He bloodied Ray. Obviously a little guy like Recchi isn't going to make a living fighting, but when the bell rung he was ready to throw.
laholm64
 

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arlow, bigkam, blurryhaze312, bringitonhome, BurghThing, Cedar Penn, DelPen, Desiato, Dickie Dunn, DiscoDadda, dodint, DropEmJayBird, dyoung7506, Eismann, eww7633, farnham16, Fire0nice228, Gabe, GDR, GSdrums87, Hugo Stiglitz, Humperdink, iceolater, Indyman, It'sagreatdayforhockey!, iWonTheCup87, Jim, joe, joopen, jsp, Kharlamov, knives of ice, lazydaze203, luv66, maopens, mariojr, MinJeeSong, murphydump55, NashvilleCat, Nick92, nocera, offsides, Old Time Hockey, Paranger, pens_srq, pensfaninhudsonvalley, Pitts, pressure=9Pa, pronovost19, RentedMule66, rgj, Rocco, Row_Z, RxBandit66, saleen66, scpensfan, sniper, Staggy, Steve, Stillerz Bar, Sure, Not, Toke, Top Shelf, topshelf66, Two Line Pass, usc89, vbqt, Wyopen and 397 guests

e-mail