Wasting Sids Talent....

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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby farnham16 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am

This team is close to a shakeup. If they continue to play the way they have and dont score goals for the next several games, something needs to be done personel wise.

I think our second line with Malkin and Sykora will be fine. They had chances last night but they just didnt go in. The big problem is Sid. To me, he just hasnt looked the same this year. What happened to the days when he made Andy Hilbert and Mark Recchi look like legit NHL wingers?

Malkin is our best player.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:53 am

The Rags have better depth than the Pens do at this point.

Lundqvist may be the best goaltender in hockey. I disagree. MAF has his vezina nights but other times is off (thanks to the team giving up 40+ shots on goal a game or 20+ SOG in a period).
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby penny lane on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:56 am

farnham16 wrote:This team is close to a shakeup. If they continue to play the way they have and dont score goals for the next several games, something needs to be done personel wise.

I think our second line with Malkin and Sykora will be fine. They had chances last night but they just didnt go in. The big problem is Sid. To me, he just hasnt looked the same this year. What happened to the days when he made Andy Hilbert and Mark Recchi look like legit NHL wingers?

Malkin is our best player.



9 shots and no goals...how does that happen. I'm not ready to toss the captain under the bus or off. :wink:
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:57 am

IT'S THE DEFENSE! Not the offense. When the defense disrupts flow by complete inability to make a pass out of the zone to a forwards tape a team cannot create chances off the rush, gain the zone, or shoot without first dumping a cycling. It is not Sid, the winger, MT, or Oulette's fault as much as it is our D's inability to create flow.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby farnham16 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:00 am

TheHammer24 wrote:IT'S THE DEFENSE! Not the offense. When the defense disrupts flow by complete inability to make a pass out of the zone to a forwards tape a team cannot create chances off the rush, gain the zone, or shoot without first dumping a cycling. It is not Sid, the winger, MT, or Oulette's fault as much as it is our D's inability to create flow.


That is a HUGE part of it you're right. I also don't think MT is letting our current defense move in and take chances on offense enough.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:04 am

I think the Pens HAVE to get Staal out of this slump. I originally thought he should be on the 4th line because Zigomanis has outplayed him, but he needs to get out of this slump.

I'd make the lines this right now:

Staal - Crosby - Malkin
Fedostinko - Talbot/Kennedy - Satan
Cooke - Talbot/Kennedy - Dupuis
Thomas/Bissonette - Zigomanis - Godard
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:06 am

TheHammer24 wrote:IT'S THE DEFENSE! Not the offense. When the defense disrupts flow by complete inability to make a pass out of the zone to a forwards tape a team cannot create chances off the rush, gain the zone, or shoot without first dumping a cycling. It is not Sid, the winger, MT, or Oulette's fault as much as it is our D's inability to create flow.


I don't buy this. Our D this year is better than some of the more putrid teams we've had in the past.

We are not outworking other teams and playing fundamentals, period.

We get outworked constantly and try too many pretty passes. We're predictable. How many times are we going to set Malkin up at the point on the PP? How many 3rd periods are we going to pack it in?
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:11 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:IT'S THE DEFENSE! Not the offense. When the defense disrupts flow by complete inability to make a pass out of the zone to a forwards tape a team cannot create chances off the rush, gain the zone, or shoot without first dumping a cycling. It is not Sid, the winger, MT, or Oulette's fault as much as it is our D's inability to create flow.


I don't buy this. Our D this year is better than some of the more putrid teams we've had in the past.

We are not outworking other teams and playing fundamentals, period.

We get outworked constantly and try too many pretty passes. We're predictable. How many times are we going to set Malkin up at the point on the PP? How many 3rd periods are we going to pack it in?


This is the misconception. With a 2.02 GA per game, people think our D is playing great. And - they are playing great in their own. But watch the extra D to D pass while the forwards are going up the ice and have to turn back. Watch how this disrupts the flow, and even when a good pass is made, the other fowards are now out of position and can't support each other. As a result, they dump, but they're not set up for a good forecheck
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby farnham16 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:12 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:I think the Pens HAVE to get Staal out of this slump. I originally thought he should be on the 4th line because Zigomanis has outplayed him, but he needs to get out of this slump.

I'd make the lines this right now:

Staal - Crosby - Malkin
Fedostinko - Talbot/Kennedy - Satan
Cooke - Talbot/Kennedy - Dupuis
Thomas/Bissonette - Zigomanis - Godard


No offense man, but that lineup just screams trouble. You can't have Sid and Geno together, it just doesnt work for long periods of time. The 2nd and 3rd lines would get nothing done.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby littlemoonboot on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:22 am

I agree with TheHammer. Whitney and especially...*especially* Gonchar's absence is being felt here. Not to sound like a boo-hoo Cryer fan talking about Timonen....because on the flip side the other guys trying to fill the holes have gotta adjust and step it up. It's hard to score goals even with a killer offense when you're constantly running back to your own end of the ice.

I would love to see Pesonen called up, though. Na na na na, nana na na na.

P.S. Be selfish and shoot that puck, Sidney! And get well soon. :)
Last edited by littlemoonboot on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:25 am

Oooops, sorry about missing Sykora there :) I'm trying to double task :p

Ok.

Staal - Crosby - Malkin
Satan - Talbot - Sykora
Cooke - Kennedy - Dupuis (Kennedy was a Center in Junior and led the league in faceoff win % as well)
Thomas/Bissonette - Zigomanis - Godard

I knew I was missing someone earlier!
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby interstorm on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:28 am

TheHammer24 wrote:IT'S THE DEFENSE! Not the offense. When the defense disrupts flow by complete inability to make a pass out of the zone to a forwards tape a team cannot create chances off the rush, gain the zone, or shoot without first dumping a cycling. It is not Sid, the winger, MT, or Oulette's fault as much as it is our D's inability to create flow.


i agree - i think MT (rightfully) has the team taking a "defense first" mentality - making sure everybody chips in to help cover for our missing top 2 players back there. due to that, there won't be a run-and-gun mentality because the forwards are probably being told to NOT get caught up ice. the other side of this has to do with the defense itself...letang and gogo are still figuring things out. they will make mistakes that lead to shots and costly penalties. they will make the extra pass or not try and push the other team back because they are not fully comfortable with the system and, especially with gogo, the NHL.

i think the team does need to shoot more...but we were saying this much of last season. that is just how this team is (and, for the most part, how pittsburgh has been over the last 15-20 years). maybe that comes with skilled players...i don't know. another sykora, someone who knows his role is to shoot, would be helpful. to really fix things, though, we just need to survive until sarge and whit are back. i would try a call-up or two and i'd think about sitting gogo for sydor for a few games. let the kid just watch a little...not too much - but a little.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:30 am

farnham16 wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:I think the Pens HAVE to get Staal out of this slump. I originally thought he should be on the 4th line because Zigomanis has outplayed him, but he needs to get out of this slump.

I'd make the lines this right now:

Staal - Crosby - Malkin
Fedostinko - Talbot/Kennedy - Satan
Cooke - Talbot/Kennedy - Dupuis
Thomas/Bissonette - Zigomanis - Godard


No offense man, but that lineup just screams trouble. You can't have Sid and Geno together, it just doesnt work for long periods of time. The 2nd and 3rd lines would get nothing done.


I agree. In a perfect world, we need them both centering deadly lines. We are getting no offense generated...the shots on goal we are getting is embarrasing. EMBARRASING!

Crosby/Malkin are getting points but not scoring goals - that's an issue.

Satan is doing a good job of being around the net on the PP for goals.

We are getting no goal/offensive production from anyone else on the team. 5 on 5 we are horrible. On the PP, how many times are we going to see the setup to Malkin?

Staal has to get going. The guy has talent. He has to work harder, like the rest of the team needs to. If Staal can't get going with Crosby/Malkin, I think it says a lot about him as a player.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby marek on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:22 pm

ZenPenguin wrote::twisted: should play with Sid. I thought that's why we got him? MT makes me *sigh*


RS signed guys to fill certain roles. Satan was signed to give Sid a scoring winger. Fedotenko was signed to replace Malone. Cooke for Ruutu. Goddard for BGL... you can go right down the freaking line...its not like he approached free agency as he would a draft where he took the best athlete possible. SO why on earth does MT keep juggling lines?

Putting Satan on the third line certainly shakes things up, for the freaking worse! He's not a checker, you cant expect him to play against other third lines and be effective! Every time MT does this with a player he makes the situation worse by not giving these guys the opportunity to use their actual abilities. If Sykora isn't scoring while playing with Malkin he's not going to be more effective alongside Talbot! Keep the lines intact and let the players work it out!!!

You plug in other pieces that are available, you don't ask players that are suited to better tasks to change their roles. You can't expect Kennedy to turn into an offensive juggernaut overnight just because you put him next to Sid. You bring up Pesonen and put him alongside Malkin or Crosby and you see what happens.

If the results don't change then obviously we don't have the right combination of players.
And then moves need to be made.

Rant. Over.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Samsdog on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:41 pm

The fact that the team has yet to play a full 60 minute game is probably part of the problem. Like Talbot said last night, you can't win if you spend 20 minutes not playing. Once everyone on the team starts working a full 60 minutes, then a solution to the wing will present itself.

I don't understand why Satan hasn't gone back to Crosby's wing, he's leading the team in goals and you can't learn to play with a guy that's on a different line. Before proclamations are made that Sid needs a winger, why not actually give the guy that was picked up to play with him a chance?
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:45 pm

Recchi finished with Sid? That was the only complaint about him. He couldn't finish at all.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Why So Serious? on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:48 pm

I think what needs to happen: is we have to go back to scratch. And pretend this season has not started yet. And by that I mean, keep the friggin lines the way they were supposed to be to start the season:

Dupuis-Crosby-Satan
Fedotenko-Malkin-Sykora
Talbot-Staal-Cooke
Kennedy-Zigomanis-Godard

And give it some games with these lines and see how it goes.

And the 2 things that have to be a must:
A) Crosby-Satan
B) Malkin-Sykora
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Pitts on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:54 pm

Samsdog wrote:I don't understand why Satan hasn't gone back to Crosby's wing, he's leading the team in goals and you can't learn to play with a guy that's on a different line. Before proclamations are made that Sid needs a winger, why not actually give the guy that was picked up to play with him a chance?

Maybe Crosby asked that Satan be removed from his line forever.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:00 pm

Crosby Satan
Malkin Sykora
Staal Tank

I keep those three pairs together for a while and let them develop something. You can rotate Cooke/Kennedy/Talbot/Dupuis etcetera all you want. They're all the same, but let's keep center/scoring winger together (I know tank isn't much of a "scoring" winger though). I keep them together win, lose, or draw until it is certain that they need changed. You have to keep these three at center (search: why staal doesn't belong on this team for more about Staal at center)
Last edited by TheHammer24 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:01 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:Crosby Satan
Malkin Sykora
Staal Tank

I keep those three pairs together for a while and let them develop something. You can rotate Cooke/Kennedy/Talbot/Dupuis etcetera all you want. They're all the same, but let's keep center/scoring winger together (I know tank isn't much of a "scoring" winger though)


Agreed, those pairs look good to me.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby KG on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:06 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Crosby Satan
Malkin Sykora
Staal Tank

I keep those three pairs together for a while and let them develop something. You can rotate Cooke/Kennedy/Talbot/Dupuis etcetera all you want. They're all the same, but let's keep center/scoring winger together (I know tank isn't much of a "scoring" winger though)


Agreed, those pairs look good to me.


Agreed...That should be enough offense right there...
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Why So Serious? on Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:09 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:Crosby Satan
Malkin Sykora
Staal Tank

I keep those three pairs together for a while and let them develop something. You can rotate Cooke/Kennedy/Talbot/Dupuis etcetera all you want. They're all the same, but let's keep center/scoring winger together (I know tank isn't much of a "scoring" winger though)


Agreed, those pairs look good to me.


Yes. These could work very well also. Staal and Feds seem to have gained some sort of a 6th sense for where each other is on the ice.

Maybe:

Talbot-Crosby-Satan
Cooke-Malkin-Sykora
Fedotenko-Staal-Dupuis
Kennedy-Zigomanis-Godard
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:26 pm

TRADE MALKIN.....

Sorry i forgot this was Crosby thread, they all seem to become one big thread after a while.
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby Why So Serious? on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:38 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:Oooops, sorry about missing Sykora there :) I'm trying to double task :p

Ok.

Staal - Crosby - Malkin
Satan - Talbot - Sykora
Cooke - Kennedy - Dupuis (Kennedy was a Center in Junior and led the league in faceoff win % as well)
Thomas/Bissonette - Zigomanis - Godard

I knew I was missing someone earlier!


Thomas is in WB/S. And how come Fedotenko isn't in there?
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Re: Wasting Sids Talent....

Postby André on Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:46 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Oooops, sorry about missing Sykora there :) I'm trying to double task :p

Ok.

Staal - Crosby - Malkin
Satan - Talbot - Sykora
Cooke - Kennedy - Dupuis (Kennedy was a Center in Junior and led the league in faceoff win % as well)
Thomas/Bissonette - Zigomanis - Godard

I knew I was missing someone earlier!


Thomas is in WB/S. And how come Fedotenko isn't in there?


I wouldn't mind:

Fedetenko - Crosby - Malkin
Satan - Staal - Sykora
Cooke - Talbot - Kennedy
Dupuis - Zigo - one of the tough guys
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