The new guys

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The new guys

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:07 pm

They're starting to settle in.

Satan's been putting the puck in pretty consistently all year but last night was the first game he actually looked good to me. He's not Hossa, but he's a highly skilled player that can keep up with Crosby in that regard and elevate him. I hope his demotion to the third line has him buying into playing the way Therrien wants him to play.

Fedotenko had a stretch of several good games in a row before the injury. I'd like to see him settle into a line with Malkin. I still think he can replace a lot of what Malone brought to that line.

Cooke's been blasting people. He's definitely a more consistent physical presence than Ruutu ever was. His hits per game would have him right at the top of the league if he didn't miss a few - right behind Orpik.

Zigomanis has a 64.4% faceoff percentage, which is the highest of any player with 100+ faceoffs. He's a big reason why this team is ranked seventh in faceoffs - imagine that. He's part of the top four PK forwards on this team that is ranked fifth in penalty killing - imagine that.

Goligoski is up to three goals and along with Letang is doing an admirable job helping to fill in for Gonchar and Whitney. Those are huge shoes for a couple inexperienced guys in their early 20's to be filling and they're holding up pretty well.

Godard and Bissonnette are what they are. They're doing fine in their roles as tough guys. One of the early needs of this team is going to be to get someone for the bottom lines to step into the lineup for the playoffs because these guys shouldn't see a playoff shift. I vote for a Gary Roberts return at the deadline.

As this team gets it going, I think it's going to be more and more apparent that they're not going to miss what they lost in the offseason very much. In some ways, they're better off.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Pitts on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm

Satan played the game last night like he has no intentions of returning to 3rd line duty any time soon. If he keeps that up, he will be on the verge of 40 goals this season.

Me liking the Cookie Monster! For sure.

Ziggy seems like quite a steal. Not sure why Phoenix was so willing to give him up.

Gogo is doing my fantasy teams good as my sleeper pick!
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Re: The new guys

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:45 pm

Henry Hank wrote:.


I thought Satan was wonderful last night. I said a few months ago that I'm not sure he has enough left in him to keep up with our offense, but if he does, then he'll be a good pickup. Especially with Shero having limited choice in the end there. Stick him with Crosby and keep him there. If he plays like he did last night, I'll be very happy.

I agree on Cooke. I thought he fit right in with Malkin and Sykora. Keep him there. Then evaluate Fedo's role on the team when he returns. Same with Dupious... where does he fit in?

Oh, Talbot fit right in with Crosby and Satan. Keep him there and see if it works long-term.

I'm also liking Zigoman. Surprise, surprise.

Yeah, GoGo. I said it before... I really don't care if his inexperience costs us a goal from time to time. Unless it's in a deciding game in the playoffs. He's got loads of talent and I want him to learn on the job... play him and play him a lot. I don't know how it will all work out when Whitney and Gonchar return, but if Whitney doesn't do well, I'll be in favor of keeping Gonchar/Letang/GoGo as our top guns on the D.
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Re: The new guys

Postby penny lane on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:53 pm

New guys have all been contributing, just have to find the right slot for them to be consistent.

Godard can play without having to fight every game.

I could not have asked for more from Gogligoski and Kris Letang in their attempt to replace Whits/Sergei.
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Re: The new guys

Postby bhaw on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:27 pm

Satan is playing very well. Last night he proved he can score from somewhere besides 4 feet from the net. Personally, I don't care where he scores from. 6 goals so far and on pace for 40ish is more than I expected. In Phoenix, he was our best winger from what I saw.

Zigomanis was a great "feebie" to pull from waivers. He's getting all the important draws and is really helping the team.

I disagree a little with Godard. When he's out there, he doesn't look out of place or behind the play at all. I have no problem with him. I've yet to see him be the cause of a big mistake or bad play so far. I think come playoff time, he will rotate with Bissonette, and possibly an AHL guy depending on the situation. We really have a lot of guys who could fill in our 4th line to either make it a tough line or simply a responsible line capable of putting a puck in the net on a good night.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:36 pm

I didn't mean that as an indictment of Godard or Bissonnette. I just don't think you need a goon in your lineup for the playoffs. Laraque is maybe the only goon in the league that might play regularly in the post season because lack of speed aside, he's a legitimately solid grinder. But even he got scratched when the games REALLY mattered once they got to the Finals. I'd like to either see them bring in a top six forward so you push a Dupuis or Kennedy to the fourth line or at the very least bring someone in who can contribute more positively in terms of actually playing hockey.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Why So Serious? on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:37 pm

bhaw wrote:
I think come playoff time, he will rotate with Bissonette, and possibly an AHL guy depending on the situation.


..... or Gary Roberts. 8-)
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Re: The new guys

Postby bhaw on Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:40 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I'd like to either see them bring in a top six forward so you push a Dupuis or Kennedy to the fourth line or at the very least bring someone in who can contribute more positively in terms of actually playing hockey.


If MT had played Pesonen for 16 minutes last night, you would have had your wish. Pesonen can play both of Crosby's wings and give us a lot more depth for the 3rd and 4th lines :lol:

I get what you're saying though. I was just pointing out that my expectations of Godard were MUCH lower than how he's played. If they could train him to the point where he has a little more speed, he'd be a good fit.
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Re: The new guys

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:07 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Goligoski is up to three goals and along with Letang is doing an admirable job helping to fill in for Gonchar and Whitney. Those are huge shoes for a couple inexperienced guys in their early 20's to be filling and they're holding up pretty well.


I've said it before and I'll make the reference again - Goligoski's goal last night reminded me of Brian Leetch. A nice subtle little shift at the top of the slot, a nice, hard wrister about 18 inches off the ice just inside the far post - the kind of goal Leetch scored lots of.

When Goligoski's confidence becomes more consistent, he is going to be phenomenal. His troubles this year have not been too frequent, but when they have occurred it has almost always been in a situation where you can see that he overthinks a play with the puck on his stick. The result is a pass that's too late, or a bobble resulting in a turnover. As soon as he just makes plays without fear, he is going to be a defenseman that every NHL team wants.

I think his upside is double that of Kris Letang's.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:15 pm

Goligoski is extremely skilled. He's got great puck skills and is a great skater. I think he's got the best offensive upside of any of the young, offensively-talented D on the team.

I think Letang's doing a heck of a job, though. He's playing some very complete hockey. He's playing big minutes. He's consistently taking hits to make plays. He's moving the puck well. He's playing physical. He's blocking shots. I'd like to see him shoot more but I'm assuming that confidence will come with experience.

Looking a couple years ahead...

Orpik-Whitney
Goligoski-Letang

That has me drooling, thinking of those four when they're all established.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:40 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Goligoski... a great skater.


There was one play last night where I saw this "Penguin" zoom right through the neutral zone and into the opposition's. Flying like the WIND. I just looked at him and thought to myself... who the f is that!?!? I thought it was a forward. Then I saw his number and realized it was GoGo. :shock:
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Re: The new guys

Postby penny lane on Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:12 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Goligoski... a great skater.


There was one play last night where I saw this "Penguin" zoom right through the neutral zone and into the opposition's. Flying like the WIND. I just looked at him and thought to myself... who the f is that!?!? I thought it was a forward. Then I saw his number and realized it was GoGo. :shock:


I know Kris Letang took off on 1 shift like I have not seen from him this year.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Jesse on Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:44 pm

IMO, Tanger was the Pens most consistent defense man during this road trip. Orpik was right there as well.

To add a thought to HH's post about Orpik - Whitney, Letang - GoGo.

In three or four years, you can add Sneep and Strait to that list as well.
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Re: The new guys

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:49 pm

Satan was brought here to score goals and quite frankly he is scoring goals. I dont care if he floats like a fairy in his own end so long that he scores goal.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:07 pm

In three or four years, you can add Sneep and Strait to that list as well.


Grant also. Weren't Grant, Bortuzzo, and Muzzin all guys that saw their stocks drop prior to their being drafted because of injuries? They're all going to turn pro next year, maybe even Sneep and Strait will. Given that their top four seems to be set down the road, they've got some solid complimentary prospects in the pipe line as well.

Satan was brought here to score goals and quite frankly he is scoring goals. I dont care if he floats like a fairy in his own end so long that he scores goal.


That's not going to get this team far. You can't ask Satan to be Hossa, but he's got to be involved in all areas of the ice and he needs to stick to the system. Sykora went through the same thing last year and he was better for it. Satan looked like a legitimate top line player last night and not a guy that needs to be carried. Keep in mind this was his first game back on the top line, right? Maybe Therrien got through to him.
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Re: The new guys

Postby meow on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:13 pm

I hate all these comparisons: Satan - Hossa, Fedotenko - Malone, Cooke - Ruutu.

Players should not be compared to other players. Each player has a unique style.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:15 pm

I think it's valid to compare what the new guys bring to what the guys they're replacing brought. They lost a group of guys and brought in a new group of guys that fill similar roles. I especially think it's valid in light of a lot of common thought of how much they were going to miss the guys they lost.
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Re: The new guys

Postby bhaw on Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:51 pm

HH... this wasn't worthy of another thread, but I know you were as adamant about not going up to the cap max as anyone. Did you see that the Ducks got stuck this weekend because they are right up against it? I forget who was out, but they needed someone and just had to roll with 7 d and leave Ryan in the AHL (he has been playing very well from what I've heard).

It's a pretty good lesson to those who say "who cares if we go up to the cap max? what do you need the room for?" That is exactly why Shero has left himself some playing room with the current line up.
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Re: The new guys

Postby bhaw on Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:55 pm

meow wrote:I hate all these comparisons: Satan - Hossa, Fedotenko - Malone, Cooke - Ruutu.

Players should not be compared to other players. Each player has a unique style.


I know what you are saying... each player brings little things that, when added all together, no other player in the league can bring as a package. But it is perfectly valid to compare the roles they filled on the team. When you lose an agitator, you need to fill that role. That is why Cooke is compared to Ruutu. Same goes for Malone and Hossa. Regardless of who we signed, no one would ever appear to bring the same things as those guys 12 games into the season, but that's because we saw Malone play for so long, we recognized every little thing he brought to the table. It would make more sense to make the comparisons at the end of the season, but there's no way to stop the comparisons now.
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Re: The new guys

Postby André on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:48 pm

penny lane wrote:I could not have asked for more from Gogligoski and Kris Letang in their attempt to replace Whits/Sergei.


Well, exclude the first three or four games and I'm with you =)
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Re: The new guys

Postby Nizzy on Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:34 pm

I love Goligoski. However I think with the other players already locked up long term, It might be hard to pay for him. Goligoski if he keeps improving could easily get close to 3.5 - 4 Mill per year. He has some serious talent on the points. He is an RFA after this year and with Gonchar's 5 mill against the cap, I don't see how we can sign Letang, Gogo, & Gonchar in the next 2 years.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Henry Hank on Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:38 pm

Nizzy wrote:I love Goligoski. However I think with the other players already locked up long term, It might be hard to pay for him. Goligoski if he keeps improving could easily get close to 3.5 - 4 Mill per year. He has some serious talent on the points. He is an RFA after this year and with Gonchar's 5 mill against the cap, I don't see how we can sign Letang, Gogo, & Gonchar in the next 2 years.


You're right that they can't sign all three in the next two years. The answer is simple - let Gonchar go. I like Gonchar, but youth is in. In two years, they'll be better off going forward with Whitney, Orpik, Letang, and Goligoski rather than paying a more expensive, older, declining Gonchar. I thought Goligoski might make trade bait this year if he didn't establish himself in the NHL by March, but that's already a moot point. He's already a regular in the NHL and he's showing that upside to boot.
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Re: The new guys

Postby Nizzy on Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:38 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
Nizzy wrote:I love Goligoski. However I think with the other players already locked up long term, It might be hard to pay for him. Goligoski if he keeps improving could easily get close to 3.5 - 4 Mill per year. He has some serious talent on the points. He is an RFA after this year and with Gonchar's 5 mill against the cap, I don't see how we can sign Letang, Gogo, & Gonchar in the next 2 years.


You're right that they can't sign all three in the next two years. The answer is simple - let Gonchar go. I like Gonchar, but youth is in. In two years, they'll be better off going forward with Whitney, Orpik, Letang, and Goligoski rather than paying a more expensive, older, declining Gonchar. I thought Goligoski might make trade bait this year if he didn't establish himself in the NHL by March, but that's already a moot point. He's already a regular in the NHL and he's showing that upside to boot.


Gonchar is going to be 36 when is contract is up. Now, look at Lidstrom who is still arguably at the top of his game at his age. I'm not saying Gonchar will decline but we will not be able to pay him what he deserves. Hopefully he goes to the KHL or something so we won't have to play him on another team in the NHL. :D And hopefully we get him a cup, that might make his leave from the NHL easy.
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Re: The new guys

Postby cs6687 on Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:17 pm

This team is so close to the Cup. It's worth keeping Gonchar around for as long as possible.
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Re: The new guys

Postby bhaw on Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:26 pm

cs6687 wrote:This team is so close to the Cup. It's worth keeping Gonchar around for as long as possible.


Depends on the price... for every million he gets, that's one less million to pay a winger. If Letang, Orpik, Goligoski, Whitney are all doing well, you can throw in a Scuds and Eaton and still have an effective blue line.

I actually think Gonchar may end up as trade bait this off season or next year at the deadline. He would net a very good winger.
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