Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

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Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby KewellHandLuke on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:04 pm

ESPN's "Rumor Central" claims that both Chris Kunitz and Martin Havlat are on the block ... both seem to be "salary dumps" and mention Mats Sundin name in each. This brings up a few question:
1.) I don't know if either of these guys helps the Pens (Kunitz contract is a little heavy and before looking closer I thought he was younger and scored more goals ... Havlat, well he's been mentioned enough here) but is it something that RS is considering? Are "salary dump" guys a possibility for this year or do the Pens push forward with their current crop of wingers? (I'm assuming everyone will come back with cries for Gaborik and Kovalchuk, but I'm not sure if that is realistic 2 years in a row ... and there are other threads for that).
2.) I think Mats is a very nice player, but WTF? Am I missing something, because I've never thought of him as a top 10 player in the league. I know there is extra media focus on him because he's played in Toronto, but the money and attention he gets makes me scratch my head and think I've been missing something all these years in his game.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby mac5155 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:05 pm

ESPN


</thread>
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby bhaw on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:08 pm

The Pens can't afford either guy under the cap. If they truely are salary dumps, it doesn't make any sense for those teams to take guys back with salary, which we would need to do to free up space for them.

That right there should eliminate any rumors involving the Penguins.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:18 pm

I read on TSN that Toronto may want to deal a defenseman. I really like (with mikey287's blessing) Carlo Colaiacovo -- decent size, offensive upside, physical but injury prone. Only 25 years old, he might be able to hang around after Hal Gill and Darryl Sydor move on/retire etc.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby TO_Pens_Fan on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:41 pm

I'm not sure why people seem to think the Pens will be making a trade or signing anyone soon.
I think Shero is a very patient man and will wait a while long before considering any moves (except for maybe Sydor, who seems to want a trade.)
Besides, we don't have enough room under the cap to sign anyone without giving up some serious salary.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby westside on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:45 pm

TO_Pens_Fan wrote:I'm not sure why people seem to think the Pens will be making a trade or signing anyone soon.
I think Shero is a very patient man and will wait a while long before considering any moves (except for maybe Sydor, who seems to want a trade.)
Besides, we don't have enough room under the cap to sign anyone without giving up some serious salary.


I agree. I'm guessing the only big move we'll see is if a scoring winger becomes available who and is under contract for at least 3-4 years. The Hossa experiment was a success in my eyes, but taking a risk like that again and losing someone like Staal or Letang for a rental could really hurt this team, IMO.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:45 pm

Yeah, I wouldn't expect any moves like this to be made any time soon. They're still in the process of figuring out how the guys they've got are going to work out. You don't really know what this team's true needs are yet. Hey, maybe Satan keeps looking like he did Saturday, Sykora picks up the pace, and both Talbot and Fedotenko prove to be worthy ~20 type of third wheel guys on the top two lines. In that case, they're looking fairly nice in the top six and already look pretty fine otherwise.

By the deadline I'm sure they'll want to make some sort of move. I doubt fitting under the cap will be an issue because they can move Sydor's salary and you'd probably see some roster guy(s) going the other way if anything major happens.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby KG on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:23 pm

Pens have been linked to Havlat for a while now...

He is a pending UFA who most likely will not be back with the Hawks. Wonder what the asking price is?
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Corvidae on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:31 pm

KG wrote:Pens have been linked to Havlat for a while now...

He is a pending UFA who most likely will not be back with the Hawks. Wonder what the asking price is?


Havlat is injury. Avoid.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby farnham16 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:59 pm

Havlat is more injury prone than Gaborik is. No thanks.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby pens#1 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:07 pm

Sundin would be an upgrade at wing no matter what you think of him and he would not cost us anything in terms of young players

i would trade for Havlat only if it was because Chicago wanted to dump salary and wasnt looking for much in return
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Corvidae on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:54 pm

pens#1 wrote:Sundin would be an upgrade at wing no matter what you think of him and he would not cost us anything in terms of young players

i would trade for Havlat only if it was because Chicago wanted to dump salary and wasnt looking for much in return


How is a center an upgrade at wing?
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby czwalga on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:23 pm

Corvidae wrote:
pens#1 wrote:Sundin would be an upgrade at wing no matter what you think of him and he would not cost us anything in terms of young players

i would trade for Havlat only if it was because Chicago wanted to dump salary and wasnt looking for much in return


How is a center an upgrade at wing?




Just like when malkin plays wing with crosby. Immediate upgrade to the flavor of the week.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Corvidae on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:35 pm

czwalga wrote:Just like when malkin plays wing with crosby. Immediate upgrade to the flavor of the week.


He's 37 and likely never played wing in his career. Need wingers? Sign a winger.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby marek on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:39 am

Havlat is money. Literally and figuratively.
When the guy played for Ottawa with Hossa and Bonk at center he was the sniper. I cant even imagine how many goals he would put up on a line with Crosby or Malkin.

The questions are:
If true, what would Chicago want in return?
Is it a salary dump?
And can Havlat play left wing (opposite Satan or Sykora)?

The guy is a point per game skater. Not many of those on the market.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:44 am

Havlat is a worse injury risk than Gaborik.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby netwolf on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:53 am

I don't think anyone doubts Havlat's ability; the concerns are all based around how often he'd be healthy enough to put that talent to good use. A point a game player is pretty good, but if he only plays in 40 games, how much is that going to help your team overall? His ability to stay healthy is a sizable gamble on the part of anyone that picks him up. In the 3 seasons prior to this one, he only played in 18, 56, and 35 games.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby TO_Pens_Fan on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:02 am

westside wrote:I agree. I'm guessing the only big move we'll see is if a scoring winger becomes available who and is under contract for at least 3-4 years. The Hossa experiment was a success in my eyes, but taking a risk like that again and losing someone like Staal or Letang for a rental could really hurt this team, IMO.


Agreed.

Trading more assets and what prospects we have left for another rental is definitely a bad idea.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby André on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:38 am

bhaw wrote:The Pens can't afford either guy under the cap. If they truely are salary dumps, it doesn't make any sense for those teams to take guys back with salary, which we would need to do to free up space for them.

That right there should eliminate any rumors involving the Penguins.


There are always threeways.

Say the Hawks sign Sundin, trade Havlat to the Pens for a young guy and a high pick while the Pens send say Whitney and whatever to some other team. Not saying that'd be good or is likely to happen, just giving an example of how it's possible to get around the salary issue.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby André on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:39 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Havlat is a worse injury risk than Gaborik.


Alot worse.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby mumbobob on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:50 am

André wrote:
bhaw wrote:The Pens can't afford either guy under the cap. If they truely are salary dumps, it doesn't make any sense for those teams to take guys back with salary, which we would need to do to free up space for them.

That right there should eliminate any rumors involving the Penguins.


There are always threeways.

Say the Hawks sign Sundin, trade Havlat to the Pens for a young guy and a high pick while the Pens send say Whitney and whatever to some other team. Not saying that'd be good or is likely to happen, just giving an example of how it's possible to get around the salary issue.


While I don't think that either of these guys are worth acquiring, there is one important thing to keep in mind here. With Gonchar and Whitney both on long term IR right now, the pens are saving money against the cap. They will have some additional flexibility down the stretch, especially as the season drags onward. This may open up additional options for Shero after the new year. Just something to keep in mind.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:09 am

I can't see anyone wasting a decent young player or prospect on Havlat. Him being injury prone is a lot of baggage. He could probably be had for a 2nd round pick and a marginal prospect (Filewich).

His salary and him playing 40 to 60 games a year make him seem like he's being paid 7.5 or 10 million a year. Same issue with Gary Roberts. Pay him 2.5 million a year to play 40 games.

If Havlat could stay healthy, he's deadly. The guy is a big time sniper.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby marek on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:52 am

Sundin to the ducks could make sense for them if they dumped major salary. They are at the cap and there arent too many options for them to make the math work.

I dont see Chicago needing to dump salary as much as Anaheim. Khabibulin is on his way out for starters as soon as some GM realize that their goalie situation isnt going to do it for them (i.e. Wash, TB, Toronto).

6 mil salary for havlat is a lot to swallow. But its still less than gaborik or kovalchuk.
Interesting to speculate but I dont see either of those guys coming over to the pens.
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby André on Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:16 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:I can't see anyone wasting a decent young player or prospect on Havlat. Him being injury prone is a lot of baggage. He could probably be had for a 2nd round pick and a marginal prospect (Filewich).

His salary and him playing 40 to 60 games a year make him seem like he's being paid 7.5 or 10 million a year. Same issue with Gary Roberts. Pay him 2.5 million a year to play 40 games.

If Havlat could stay healthy, he's deadly. The guy is a big time sniper.


Budget wise yes, but cap wise it doesn't matter. If someone's on IR that's even "good" cap wise :)
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Re: Kunitz & Havlat on the Block?

Postby TheHammer24 on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:57 am

KG wrote:Pens have been linked to Havlat for a while now...

He is a pending UFA who most likely will not be back with the Hawks. Wonder what the asking price is?


The Hawks can definitely get something for him at the deadline, so I don't expect them to dish him for nothing, but the Pens have to be close to having room if someone's explanation of Whit and Gonch on the long term IR is correct.
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