Talent strapped or not; is MT the right coach?

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Talent strapped or not; is MT the right coach?

Postby Scott on Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:39 pm

I am really starting to doubt MT's coaching ability/style, call it what you want.
He was claimed to have a style and a system.
Well that is good, but let me know when we get to see it.

I see nothing more than guys skating around being too scared to make plays becasue they might be called Nancy boy by the head coach.

At this point, I would rather see them lose 8-5 or 7-6 every night than this current (whatever you want to call it..system it is not)
Losing that way, we can atleast see players develop their niche in the game.
Maybe we have some offensive/defensive gems here already, we just will never see it under MT. They have zero freedom to make any plays.

Still taking the dumb panalty. MT has continued to say"we keep taking the dumb penalty"..at this point, it is YOUR FAULT MT. You are the one who supposedly "holds players accountable"..so why not skip the on ice push ups at practice and talk the mental aspect..for the whole practice. ?
Those players are not retarded. Say it over and over"dont take that kind of penalty" and they will in fact get it. If kids can get it, adults can get it as well.

Line changes. We have seen this in so many games the fact that they cant execute a simple line change..or better yet, they change lines at the worst possible time.
I am sorry, but that is not the players fault. My traveling team makes the ELEMENTARY line change with ease.

The dictator approach works great in the AHL, but not with the big club. You see, a player in the AHL will respond to his rants as for fear of being out, or demoted even further.
But established NHL players know they can do it, ones who have succeeded and know they will just get picked up by another team should they not work out here. Same isnt so in the AHL.

Everyone knows I probably was one of the first to call for Edzo to be replaced..and I stand by that.
MT however is not the answer to this. In fact, he is stunting the growth of these players including SID. Let these young guys make some PLAYS ..please..

Tell Orpick to gamble on a hit...he will learn when he shouldnt.
Let Colby, EC, Oullete, Crosby free wheel on offense at times to get some confidence with .what do ya know...some scoring chances.
Let Whitney pinch when HE wants...he will learn when not to do it.
GOnchar...at this point...just tell him to go have fun and play the way he wants to play. Anything at this point to get him going.

MT needs to go. He is doing nothing for these guys but scaring them right out of their potential.
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Postby Shinoix on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:03 pm

I disagree...we saw what this team could do when MT took over...they played every game close, losing only by a goal, and many games should have been Pens wins.

They had a system going then, and now for some reason in the last 10 or so games, that system has kind of gone down the tubes. I don't know if it's because of the confidence level, or just the fact that they know the season is a write off. The system doesn't seem to be there anymore...do you still see the neutral zone trap that we employed against Buffalo when MT was first here?

I don't know if that's the players fault, or if MT has changed his strategy.

All in all, you have to look at the makeup of this team.


We do not have a number one centre that can win draws, or even battle hard in a draw. Advantage the other team.

We don't have a legit #1 #2 or for that matter #3 defensive defenseman...don't kid yourself folks, Orpik would be #3 at best on an a decent team, Cross and Cairns would be scratches on other teams....advantage other team.

We don't have a decent checking line that will contribute on the scoresheet once in a while....advantage other team.

We have a couple scorers...Ouellet, Surovy, Crosby, Recchi...they're ALL young and inexperienced somewhat, with the exception of Recchi...advantage other team

Our so-called veteran leader is -31....other than that , isn't our avg age on the team 24 or slightly under? Once again, inexperienced...advantage other team.

Folks, there's not much we can do with this team right now with Palffy gone, and Lemieux gone, Odelein stinks, as does LeClair....our vets are either GONE, or just not very good!

We're depending on youth once again, I mean look at our lineup...Scuderi, Whitney, Endicott, Surovy, Ouellet, Crosby, Rita, Armstrong, etc. These are our regular players, and they have a handful of experience between all of them.

You have to reserve judgement on MT until next year. I'm sure he'll have his say on who makes the team and who they bring in. He knows what he needs to make his system successful...throwing a bunch of AHL players into the NHL and expecting immediate success doesn't happen. We need certain role players...we can't just fill holes with every player from WBS, it doesn't work like that.

Therrien will have a fresh start next year with a full training camp to teach all players and get them on the same page. If they make a couple decent moves in the offseason, and MT still doesn't show some success, then yes, he's obviously not right for the job.

C'mon people, he walked into a mess, and can only do so much with the personell we have here.

If you really think about it.... the only first line quality players we have, are Crosby, and Gonchar....and Gonchar isn't playing the way he can, so technically we have one first line quality player.
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Don't Totally Disagree

Postby Mad City Mike on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:10 pm

Since MT's tirade, which all of us agreed with, the Pens are a pathetic 1-10-1. Before it, they were 3-5-3. Under MT, before that they were scoring 3.46 per game. After, it's 2.33. Before the outburst, they allowed (under MT) 3.64 and now it's 4.25. So, if anything, the impact of the remarks has been negative.

I do think they are playing scared, but not so much of what he'll say. They are scared of making mistakes, period. Some of that is probably because they are learning a new system and are not comfortable.

Another reason for the decline might be Palffy retiring. You take one of the few legitimate scoring threats out of the lineup, and a slump is bound to occur.

But to your question, I don't think we can judge MT yet. He needs at least a full training camp to get things implemented. Actually, it will be interesting to see how they come out of the break, when he will have some chance to get some good coaching in. I do have my doubts as to whether he is the right guy for this team, but I am willing to wait and see. In the interim, find me a GM who can bring in some players, and then we'll judge MT.
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One Gripe I Have

Postby Mad City Mike on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:15 pm

He preaches accountability, but he is no better than Edzo in this area. Endicott makes one dumb play after another, yet never misses a shift. I see one dumb penalty after another where the guy never misses a shift or gets scratched. Unless he changes on his holding players accountable, the stupidity will continue.
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Re: One Gripe I Have

Postby Admin on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:18 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:Unless he changes on his holding players accountable, the stupidity will continue.

We only have so many players and they all seem to take dumb penalties.
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Re: One Gripe I Have

Postby Mad City Mike on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:23 pm

Admin wrote:
Mad City Mike wrote:Unless he changes on his holding players accountable, the stupidity will continue.

We only have so many players and they all seem to take dumb penalties.


But maybe they would stop if they saw guys missing shifts or getting scratched for doing it. Scratching Gonchar might be a good start.
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Postby jmh70 on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:29 pm

MT has been making a few Edzo-like mistakes:

-Gonchar on the PK. 'nuff said.
-Failure to form a scoring line. MT feels the need to spread out his better players across two or three lines. When you're the coach of a bad team, you must ensure that at least one of your lines can score consistently. Instead, MT has formed 4 mostly or entirely ineffective lines. Look at CBJ: they have basically put their three best players on the same line, and they are doing fairly well.
-Scratching Jackman. Face it: he's no worse than Melichar or Cross in his own end, and those players don't have the offensive upside Jackman has. At this point, I honestly think he's better than Gonchar. I've never understood the hate for Ric.
-He seems to have given up on Rita already. He had about 7-8 mins last night, was forced to serve the boarding major, and was removed from Crosby's line Saturday. I guess MT has no tolerance for soft Euros.
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Postby Steve on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:30 pm

implementing a system does not guarantee success, and it certainly doesn't happen overnight (or 10-20 games). It took the Wild 2-3 years before their system to work.

I don't think MT is the right coach for all of the players on the Pens, but I do believe he is the right coach for the young core of players, and that's what's important - so I think he should remain.

The Pens really, really, need to get rid of the over-the-hill gang, and let the young guys gel and improve. that will be continue to be painful to watch for a while, but they need to rebuild this team the correct way.

let's go Pens!
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Re: One Gripe I Have

Postby Scott on Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:31 pm

Scratching Gonchar might be a good start.[/quote]

No that will only make matters worse. It will make fans boo more when he returns to the lineup.

Gonchar at this point needs to be without a leash. Just let him go out and wing it. Play the game as it should be, fun.
It cant hurt at this point with him.
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Postby abigFATAss on Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:19 pm

He's the right guy. He's good at dealing with young teams. Look at what he did with the Baby Pens. I know it's a huge difference from the NHL, but a young team will listen to the type of coach he is.

The Baby Pens listened to him. And, you'll notice, every player that was called up for the Penguins, who played for Therrien, are willing to give it 100% (Talbot, Armstrong, Fleury, etc.). There are a few exceptions, but the basic ideas he gave certain guys at the AHL level are sticking at the NHL level.

Just gotta find the element in the locker room that's corrupting the whole message. Because it ain't Therrien. He's a huge improvement over what was here before. At least he has credentials.
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Postby netwolf on Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:25 pm

Until the roster is improved the coach doesn't matter. And this team doesn't have enough firepower to lose games 6-4 , let alone 8-6. :P
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Hallelujah!

Postby dagny on Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:58 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
Admin wrote:
Mad City Mike wrote:Unless he changes on his holding players accountable, the stupidity will continue.

We only have so many players and they all seem to take dumb penalties.


But maybe they would stop if they saw guys missing shifts or getting scratched for doing it. Scratching Gonchar might be a good start.


This is what I've been saying since MT came up. I'd fall out of my chair if Gonchar was scratched... and he's doing BETTER! That's the message that needs to be sent though. It doesn't matter who you are, you will sit.
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Postby relantel on Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:15 pm

ah, to have Badger Bob again....
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Postby Mango Salsa on Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:24 am

relantel wrote:ah, to have Badger Bob again....


I'm still here, just changed my ID. Oh, wait...
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