If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Pens15 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:48 pm

bhaw wrote:
Pens15 wrote:Sykora isn't going to command a raise at all. He's getting old and he's totally one-dimensional. He'll be lucky if we even want him back at the same price.


Perhaps you've missed the last several off seasons where older players get fairly sizable contracts for similar numbers to Sykora.

If he doesn't get a raise, it's because he chooses to stay here and forgo what another team will offer.


I know, but I would think that most of those players who were getting paid for similar numbers probably weren't completely one-dimensional like Sykora is. There is a reason why he has bounced around so much. I'm willing to bet he won't get a raise this year from us or anybody else.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Kovy27 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:10 pm

Noise wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Talbot and Zigomanis... those are the kind of guys that the best teams get locked up. Talbot something 3 years 5 million, Zigo something like 2 years 2.2 million.

Sabu's gonna be a starter next year somewhere, It's not important to re-up guys like sykora, gill, and scuderi now, as a lot can happen by july 1 and we don't know whether we'll need them.

Letang and Goligoski remain a puzzle. Goligoski is RFA after this year, Letang has 1 more year. The decision is most likely going to have to be made as to which one of those are in our long-term plans. The other option would be to let gonch's contract run out and let him walk, however i don't agree with that.

Personally I think Letang is very expendable. I haven't seen a lot from him in his entire time here. Yes, he skates incredibly well, but he makes a lot of mistakes on both ends of the ice. Goligoski, however, I can see turning into a top-notch dman in this league. He skates equally as well as letang, and he is outstanding with the puck. Obviously, as a rookie he is showing defensive flaws, but those should work themselves out. In addition, the right package centered around letang could land a pretty solid top-6 forward.

Just my take, i'm sure plenty of people would rather see letang kept around.


Letang > Goligoski


wat?
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:15 pm

I still don't understand which games these people are watching that see so much more from Gogo. He scored more goals? Guess what, they are defenders. Letang is showing more earlier in his career.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Pitts on Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:26 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Sabu's gonna be a starter next year somewhere,

Ha-ha, really? Where?
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:27 pm

Pitts wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Sabu's gonna be a starter next year somewhere,

Ha-ha, really? Where?


Uh...Pittsburgh obviously.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Why So Serious? on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:09 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I still don't understand which games these people are watching that see so much more from Gogo. He scored more goals? Guess what, they are defenders. Letang is showing more earlier in his career.


I agree, but Goligoski has been a beast as of lately also. Let me put it this way:

Offensively: I like Alex Goligoski's upside.
Defensively: I like Kris Letang's upside.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby heshootsandscores on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:20 pm

Paekman wrote:I think that the re-signing of Talbot is very important to this club. I'm of course going to start with the "heart & soul" type of player argument. The bottomline is that guys like Max Talbot are very important to championship (or close to championship) caliber clubs. I know that some folks will use the Colby Armstrong "great locker room guy/not so great player" argument, but I think that's where the primary difference lies: Talbot is a great player.

Talbot scores big goals. Talbot plays with great energy and passion (just like his current center). Talbot is solid defensively and at least passable on faceoffs. Talbot sticks up for himself and his teammates. Talbot does solid work night in, night out. He's not a huge goal scorer, but there's no reason why he can't get 20 a season or so.

Some may chuckle at the notion, but I believe that Max is a part of "The Core" of this club. Yes, the player is replaceable. Any player outside of a select few in the league is. However, the total package that Talbot brings is not, IMHO.



Totally agree, he plays every game at 100% and is a game changing player.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:28 pm

The cap squeeze is going to be tight next year. Staal's not going to be cheap. They're going to have to pay for potential and it's going to be in excess of $4 million per. Goligoski really throws a wrench into it too. Just to qualify him will cost over $1 million. With the kind of numbers he's putting up, they're going to be better off going long-term with him, but it's not going to be cheap. Offensively talented defensemen are an expensive commodity. They're going to definitely want to lock Letang up this summer, but his contract won't come into effect until after next season. I can't imagine how anyone could be down on him at all. I think he's been great this season. He's doing all the little things a good defenseman does. Goligoski is more in the spotlight since he's putting in goals, but that's mostly all PP production, which they'll get from Gonchar and Whitney as well.

I like Talbot but his contract could be a nuisance. Intangibles get guys money. If he sticks with Crosby, I can see him putting up 20 goals. He's then going to get paid like a 20 goal scorer. I think I'd rather see them stay short-term with him. He's not part of the core. He's a nice character guy that can contribute in many different ways, but those are the types of guys that get overpaid and don't always live up to it (Malone...).

Sykora's not going to be an easy guy to fit in. Like I said, the cap squeeze is going to be tight next year. I'd say moving Gonchar's contract would solve that issue but he's got a no-trade clause. They might have to decide to let Sykora go, bring back Satan or someone similar for Sid, and then promote maybe Kennedy up to play with Malkin. There's no way they can sign all the young guys they need to sign, re-sign Sykora, and either re-sign Satan or bring someone else in for Sid. It can't be done. Sykora's a huge bargain at $2.5 million. He's pretty unlikely to be willing to settle for such little money given his production.

I've had Curry pegged as Fleury's back-up last year. He's off to a slow start that started with some injury problems. Hopefully, he gets it together and gets back on track. The one thing I'm fairly sure of is that there's no way Sabourin will be back. He's even said he wants an opportunity to be a starter. He's going to go for that opportunity and probably for more money than the Pens would be willing to pay a back-up.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby maudineormsby on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:54 pm

I think we can't keep most of these players and need to be thinking laterally to find solutions. Main reason? Economy. The cap's going down and there's almost nothing we can do about that unless revenues go up for some reason. We need to dump salary to make the cap. We let Boucher and Gill walk after this year, re-sign Scuds, and our D looks:

Gonch
Whit
Orpik
Tang
Scuds
Eaton

With the exception of Eaton, that's solid; we have to hope he comes along and makes himself worth 2 million. If we can keep Goligoski, Eaton gets dropped to 7th D man, which is very comfortable for me. We can get 3 awesome pairings out of those 6. Gill and Boucher leave 5.5MM open to sign Gogo (with the expiration of his current contract) and get a little extra for the forwards/goalie.

We'd have to get a keeper for .5MM, and I think Curry would be a good call-up to fill this spot. We've had the luxury of backups playing like starters; I doubt we can keep Sabou for backup money.

Forwards are trickier; some has to step up for us to make things work. Sid needs a scoring winger - keeping Satan will be expensive, so I doubt we do that but I'd love it if we did. He seems to have found his game in Pittsburgh, so a 2 year 8MM contract would work for me - paying for it with money saved from Gogo, hopefully.

Sykora should be willing to take an extension to stay here at his current price - something I'd do if he would do it. His statistics have not improved all that much with Malkin - he scored much more with the Devils. Playing with the Pens is good for him, he's got something good with Malkin. He's gotten a Cup, but he missed at 2 more and probably wants to win. So I'd hope he would sign for 2.5/yr for 2 more years, maybe 3.

We'll need Dupuis and Kennedy to step up; Cooke has to play well (maybe 2nd line time). I can't see how we wouldn't sign Zigomanis for minimum or a slight increase (825k seems plenty). Talbot should see more. He's got a nose for the goal and scores clutch points. He looks good with Sid. I'd offer him 1.5/yr to stay.

Even if all my "hopes" pan out, we would be losing Tank and probably Satan. Pesonen, Minard, Bissonnette and Bill Thomas need to step up somewhere so we can get 4th line depth, and we need to adjust to the fact that we might have to condense to two scoring lines. Maybe Staal - Crosby - Talbot and Cooke/Kennedy - Malkin - Sykora. There's not enough money to go around.

Fortunately, we're not the only team with this problem.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby maudineormsby on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:56 pm

Henry Hank wrote:The cap squeeze is going to be tight next year. Staal's not going to be cheap. They're going to have to pay for potential and it's going to be in excess of $4 million per. Goligoski really throws a wrench into it too. Just to qualify him will cost over $1 million. With the kind of numbers he's putting up, they're going to be better off going long-term with him, but it's not going to be cheap. Offensively talented defensemen are an expensive commodity. They're going to definitely want to lock Letang up this summer, but his contract won't come into effect until after next season. I can't imagine how anyone could be down on him at all. I think he's been great this season. He's doing all the little things a good defenseman does. Goligoski is more in the spotlight since he's putting in goals, but that's mostly all PP production, which they'll get from Gonchar and Whitney as well.

I like Talbot but his contract could be a nuisance. Intangibles get guys money. If he sticks with Crosby, I can see him putting up 20 goals. He's then going to get paid like a 20 goal scorer. I think I'd rather see them stay short-term with him. He's not part of the core. He's a nice character guy that can contribute in many different ways, but those are the types of guys that get overpaid and don't always live up to it (Malone...).

Sykora's not going to be an easy guy to fit in. Like I said, the cap squeeze is going to be tight next year. I'd say moving Gonchar's contract would solve that issue but he's got a no-trade clause. They might have to decide to let Sykora go, bring back Satan or someone similar for Sid, and then promote maybe Kennedy up to play with Malkin. There's no way they can sign all the young guys they need to sign, re-sign Sykora, and either re-sign Satan or bring someone else in for Sid. It can't be done. Sykora's a huge bargain at $2.5 million. He's pretty unlikely to be willing to settle for such little money given his production.

I've had Curry pegged as Fleury's back-up last year. He's off to a slow start that started with some injury problems. Hopefully, he gets it together and gets back on track. The one thing I'm fairly sure of is that there's no way Sabourin will be back. He's even said he wants an opportunity to be a starter. He's going to go for that opportunity and probably for more money than the Pens would be willing to pay a back-up.


Good thoughts here. I disagree on Sykora though. He's produced similar numbers his whole career - he's only scoring 4 or 5 more goals, but 10-15 more assists playing with Malkin. Shouldn't be too hard to lock up at a similar price; maybe a small raise. 3MM per tops.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:09 pm

Sykora's stock was a lot lower around the league than it will be when this contract is up. Plus the cap's gone up significantly since then. The cap was $44 million when they signed Sykora. It's $56.7 million now and could go up. Just by that inflation his value goes up to ~$3.2 million. Now add in that his stock is higher, plus players on the Pens seem to have their value artificially upgraded around the league just for being on a good team, and I'd bet it'd take at least $4 million to bring him back. I mean, that's much Satan commanded last year after a 40 point season.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby KG on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:14 pm

2 for $7MM is the offer I would give Sykora. Satan money for 2 years...He will probably accept that...
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Kicksave on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:16 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Sykora's stock was a lot lower around the league than it will be when this contract is up. Plus the cap's gone up significantly since then. The cap was $44 million when they signed Sykora. It's $56.7 million now and could go up. Just by that inflation his value goes up to ~$3.2 million. Now add in that his stock is higher, plus players on the Pens seem to have their value artificially upgraded around the league just for being on a good team, and I'd bet it'd take at least $4 million to bring him back. I mean, that's much Satan commanded last year after a 40 point season.


No chance Sykora commands $4 mil.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:18 pm

Why not? Satan got $4 million after a 16 goal season. Presumably, Sykora will have back-to-back ~60 point seasons. And he's younger.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Pens15 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:56 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Why not? Satan got $4 million after a 16 goal season. Presumably, Sykora will have back-to-back ~60 point seasons. And he's younger.




I appreciate that Sykora is a good goal-scorer but I just can't see teams bidding all that much for a guy who is basically useless when he's not scoring. I know that sounds harsh but really, what else is he good at? He's weak, he's not fast, he can't carry the puck much. It's not necessarily all about the numbers. There's always a place for him but I don't see him being a hotly pursued free agent.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:01 pm

Again, you can say all those things about Satan, and he just signed for $4 million after a 16 goal season. His track record prior to that wasn't much different than Sykora's track record. The Pens got Sykora on a bargain to begin with at a time when the cap was a lot lower.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Pens15 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:10 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Again, you can say all those things about Satan, and he just signed for $4 million after a 16 goal season. His track record prior to that wasn't much different than Sykora's track record. The Pens got Sykora on a bargain to begin with at a time when the cap was a lot lower.


Well, not to nitpick but it's 3.5 I think according to nhlscap.com for Satan. And that number could be a little higher than it would be since he took a one-year deal. Maybe it's just been my perception but I always thought Satan was considered a better player than what Sykora was considered.

I get what you are saying though and you could be right. But I also think that maybe Sykora isn't really thought that highly of around the league, hence why he has bounced around so much. I could be dead wrong that's just speculation that's not based on a lot but it's just a theory.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby KG on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:12 pm

I agree Pens15. I always thought Satan was a better player then Sykora...

2 for $7MM max for Sykora...
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Samsdog on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:18 pm

I dont see Sykora going anywhere, the raise he'll get other places won't be substantially more than what the Pens are willing to offer him; in reality, he's not much more than a 3.5 millionish at most player, which is probably only about .5 mill more than the Pens would offer. He's not the type of player that teams overspend for; those players are usually either Malone's who have had one or two good years and might flop but have decent potential, or Naslunds that are getting old but have a name and could possibly rekindle the old fire. Sykora is neither of those things, so I don't see teams chomping at the bit to toss him money he isn't worth.
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Re: If We Re-Sign Staal Soon...

Postby Barracuda on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:28 pm

I see letang as being more important to the pens since he is on the top defensive pairing. Gogo has been a pleasant surprise this year and I can totally understand everyones point on that also
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