Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

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Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Three Stars on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:10 pm

For each of the following defensemen in the Penguins system, decide which category you would assign to them. Injuries are complicating things right now, but you can assign a category based on plans for next year too. Also consider salary implications.

    Core: Should be signed long term (if they aren't already). Someone to build around.
    Chip: Should be shopped around the league to fill in missing pieces. Keep 'em if feasable financially.
    Crud: Should be gently but firmly ushered over the Clemente Bridge once their contract expires.

Code: Select all
Sergei Gonchar - signed through 09-10, $5 million cap hit
Ryan Whitney - signed through 12-13, $4 million cap hit
Brooks Orpik - signed through 13-14, $3.75 million cap hit
Hal Gill - signed through 08-09, $2.075 million cap hit
Mark Eaton - signed through 09-10, $2 million cap hit
Alex Goligoski - signed through 08-09, on rookie deal
Kris Letang - signed through 09-10, on rookie deal
Rob Scuderi - signed through 08-09, $0.713 million cap hit
Phillipe Boucher - signed through 08-09, $1.989 million cap hit


Here's mine:

Gonchar - Chip (With thanks for services rendered...if he comes back at full strength, he's worth something to a team needing a PP quarterback. The Pens have several replacements.)
Whitney - Core (Signed long term. Hope he gets his act together.)
Orpik - Core (Signed long term.)
Gill - Crud (No offense, but there will be better ways to spend money)
Eaton - Crud (Not tradable. A tad expensive for a 7th D, but there are worse D-men).
Goligoski - Core (Gets paid before Letang. This season tells us if he can be Gonchar Jr.)
Letang - Chip (Gets paid after Gogo, so they can shop a year of his rookie deal to cash strapped teams. Not in a huge hurry to get rid of him, though.)
Scuderi - Core (Knows the system, can be counted on. Shouldn't break the bank.)
Boucher - Crud (Should teach Gogo and Letang everything he knows before leaving.)
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Kicksave on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:16 pm

Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest
Last edited by Kicksave on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby wallflower on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:23 pm

Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price. Sin

Crud: the Rest

This is pretty much how I would categorize them. Even though I have a hard time using the term "crud" for the rest because I don't think they're awful, just that they would/will be easier to replace.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Kicksave on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:24 pm

wallflower wrote:
Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price. Sin

Crud: the Rest

This is pretty much how I would categorize them. Even though I have a hard time using the term "crud" for the rest because I don't think they're awful, just that they would/will be easier to replace.


I didn't like the word crud either, but that is what we were dealt with.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby wallflower on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:35 pm

Kicksave wrote:
wallflower wrote:
Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price. Sin

Crud: the Rest

This is pretty much how I would categorize them. Even though I have a hard time using the term "crud" for the rest because I don't think they're awful, just that they would/will be easier to replace.


I didn't like the word crud either, but that is what we were dealt with.

Yep. Just had to put my distaste for the term out there. :)
Last edited by wallflower on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Pitts on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:39 pm

Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest

Echo ...
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby bhaw on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:40 pm

core: Orpik, Whitney, Letang - Orpik and Whitney already signed. Letang is showing TONS of promise in both ends.

Chip: Gonchar, Goligoski, Scuderi - Gonchar won't be back with all the money we need to put elsewhere. Goligoski is just more expendable than Letang right now, plus we have some more guys coming up in the coming years. I would love for Scuds to stay, but Eaton is signed already for next year and Shero has faith in him. Doesn't look good for Scuderi unless he wants to give us the all so elusive "hometown discount."

Crud: Gill, Eaton - Gill just won't be needed. I would prefer Scuds over the current Mark Eaton. If he can pick up the slack, I will be ok with him again.

Not enough information: Boucher :lol:
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby npv708 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:41 pm

Core - Whitney, Letang, Gogo, Orpik, Eaton
Chip - Gonchar, Scuderi, Boucher
Crud - Gill, Tamer.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Three Stars on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:44 pm

It was hard to get the alliteration going. If you can think of a C word that means "not in their long term plans", I'm all ears.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby wallflower on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:53 pm

Three Stars wrote:It was hard to get the alliteration going. If you can think of a C word that means "not in their long term plans", I'm all ears.

I understand and under normal circumstances (ie. the Pens' defenses of the past) I wouldn't even flinch at using crud. (Hans Jonsson, I am looking in your direction.)

Actually, in these games the terminology is generally harsher (and more to the point). Also, the thesaurus is no help. :lol:
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby bhaw on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:53 pm

Three Stars wrote:It was hard to get the alliteration going. If you can think of a C word that means "not in their long term plans", I'm all ears.


"Content with Shero declining to offer them further services with the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey organization."

You could shorten it to "CWSDTOTFSWTPPHO" if you felt it was too long.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:56 pm

Goligoski - Core (Gets paid before Letang. This season tells us if he can be Gonchar Jr.)
Letang - Chip (Gets paid after Gogo, so they can shop a year of his rookie deal to cash strapped teams. Not in a huge hurry to get rid of him, though.)
Scuderi - Core (Knows the system, can be counted on. Shouldn't break the bank.)


No offense, but I couldn't agree less with these 3.

1. Letang - Youngest and best of the 3
2. Gogo - No reason he can't be signed as well, but should be locked up after Letang
A Distant 3. Scuderi - most easily replaceable

Anyway, Kicksave nailed it.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Rocco on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:07 am

Gonchar- Chip. He's likely peaked as a player. He's nice to have back there but the PP gets on fine w/Malkin running the point. The bottom could fall out at any moment with him due to his age and miles logged.

Whitney- Core, because he's got a long-term contract and there remains the slight chance he'll become a
little more physical at some point. The defense needs a whipping boy.

Letang- Core, although you could talk me into making him a chip if Goligoski catches fire.

Orpik- Core, because he's got a long-term deal and the Pens don't have a natural replacement in the system.

Gill- Crud. I don't know if he's really got any trade value and he's not getting any younger.

Eaton- Crud.

Goligoski- Chip. I think he reaches his peak too late to really help the Pens core. His prime value is probably as trade bait for a scoring winger either this year or next year (since the Pens are still one winger short). If he really plays well this year I might think otherwise, but this year he looks like someone with potential but still jittery.

Scuderi- Chip. I like him as a player, but he's not the kind of guy you scramble to keep. He's very likely to be overpaid this year. Shero has shown an understanding that you can't overpay role players when cheaper options are available.

Boucher- Crud. He'll be gone at the end of the year and is here mainly for emergency situations.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby purelebo84 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:08 am

Gonchar- chip.
Whitney- core.
Orpik- core.
Gill- crud.
Eaton- crud.
Goligoski- core.
Letang- core.
Scuds- chip.
Boucher- crud.

In 4 years, our defense will be otherworldly--

Orpik-Letang
Whitney-Goligoski
Grant-Strait

Or Scuds could still be here, and I'd be fine that way too.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Bowser on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:19 am

CORE: Goligoski-Whitney, Orpik-Letang, Scuderi-Gonchar
CRUD: Gill, Eaton, Boucher

I don't expect the Pens to trade Gonchar since they don't really have anything at US College, Canadian Jr's, or European level that can step in and play in the next year. Shero is going to be quite happy with a defensive core above, Fleury in net, and Crosby, Malkin, Staal down the middle.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby mikey287 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:19 am

Sergei Gonchar - core
Ryan Whitney - core, maybe chip if the right offer came along
Brooks Orpik - core
Hal Gill - chip, if he's cheap, I wouldn't mind him being the 6
Mark Eaton - crud
Alex Goligoski - core
Kris Letang - core
Rob Scuderi - chip, re-sign if cheap
Phillipe Boucher - crud, let go
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby mac5155 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:24 am

i can honestly say i saw phillipe boucher and scratched my head. for about 2 seconds.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Three Stars on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:35 am

There's a Letang/Gogo thread on hfboards that's pretty split. If I trade Letang it's because Whit plays like an anchor D and Gogo fully expresses his intriguing offensive potential and runs the power play. Letang becomes the most valuable trading chip because of youth and salary. (Goligoski will already be on his second deal next year.)

Again, I'm not clamoring for a Letang trade, but if I was forced to choose...
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Guido on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:07 am

Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest


This.

Scuderi is dependable as well as cheap, but also the easiest to replace. Gill and Eaton are turning into crud. Unless Boucher's righthand shot somehow makes the powerplay click at something ridiculous like 30%, I can't see him being much more than crud.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Mongoose87 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:38 am

Guido wrote:
Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest


This.

Scuderi is dependable as well as cheap, but also the easiest to replace. Gill and Eaton are turning into crud. Unless Boucher's righthand shot somehow makes the powerplay click at something ridiculous like 30%, I can't see him being much more than crud.


The nice thing about Scuds is, with Gill and Boucher coming off of the books, we should be able to lock him up.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:16 am

Mongoose87 wrote:
Guido wrote:
Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest


This.

Scuderi is dependable as well as cheap, but also the easiest to replace. Gill and Eaton are turning into crud. Unless Boucher's righthand shot somehow makes the powerplay click at something ridiculous like 30%, I can't see him being much more than crud.


The nice thing about Scuds is, with Gill and Boucher coming off of the books, we should be able to lock him up.


You don't lock players like scuderi up. Gogo and Letang both get new contracts this summer(LeGame's kicks in next year), scuderi is probably the last contract Shero worries about this summer, as after those two, they'll have 6 guys locked up, and will be looking for a 6-7 guy. Scuderi's either gonna have to take a pay cut or leave. I can't imagine him taking a pay cut when his value has increased.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Gaucho on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:07 am

Tough to categorize. Whitney, Letang and Gogo are the core/chip group to me. I can definitely see either one of them being traded for a scoring winger. Whitney is the one who may get us the best return, Tanger is the one I'd least want to let go.

Orpik is signed long-term and adds an element that the above three can't provide, so I guess he's core.

Gonchar and Scuds will hopefully be re-signed at a reasonable prize unless Sergei's play declines at a disturbing rate.

I guess with Gill and Eaton I don't really care one way or the other. They are certainly not core, and neither is Boucher.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:10 am

Sergei Gonchar - chip. With contract running out, hard to imagine them resigning him at that amount.
Ryan Whitney - core. But he has to prove last year was a fluke caused by the injury.
Brooks Orpik - core. Good price for a rugged defenseman.
Hal Gill - crap. I just don't see the value here.
Mark Eaton - crap. I said Shero overpaid for him and that is being proven true.
Alex Goligoski - core. Has looked great so far offensively, but needs to improve in his own end.
Kris Letang - core. He will be their best two-way defenseman in time. Might be already, come to think of it.
Rob Scuderi - chip. Depends on what he's asking for in his next deal. If his salary doubles, I'm fine with it.
Phillipe Boucher - incomplete, but likely chip. Depends on what he does the rest of the season.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby KG on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:14 am

Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest


Agreed....I would much rather solve the wing need via unrestricted free agency (havlat/cole/gionta) then deal a young chip again...

Gonchar/Orpik
Whitney/Letang
Goligoski

Going into next year is very solid. Hopefully bring back Scuderi to be the 6th d man (or eaton)...
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby ShaPe on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:34 am

Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski.

I think the best case scenario is to sign Gonchar to a 2year deal with less salary (i doubt he take it). Because as good as Letang and Goligoski are, they are not on the same level as Gonchar right now with the first pass out of the pens zone. But will be there hopefully in 2-3 seasons from now.

If pens want to be contenders, they need to have that all-star defensemen and if Gonchar goes, we won't have one. Whitney can turn into one, but he isn't there yet either as of now.
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