Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby darkstar57 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:39 am

Sergei Gonchar - Core (until contract is up, then if he takes less money could stay explain at the end)
Ryan Whitney - core (but i can see him being trade bait)
Brooks Orpik - core
Hal Gill - Chip (they will hold onto him at the end of the year the let him walk)
Mark Eaton - Chip (they will hold on to him to the end of his contract,
Alex Goligoski - core
Kris Letang - core
Rob Scuderi - Core
Phillipe Boucher - Chip (will be let go at the end of the year, unless he catches fire)

We will keep Sarge because of what he brings, every D man that plays with him gets better, is offense speaks for itself and heis defense is way underrated. Remember that diving poke check he did last year in the Cup finals, i forgot who he did it against, but that was such a sweet defensive play. But he can still skate and pass the puck he is useful. I credit Sarge with Orpick's emergence as a player.

Letang will be kept over Gogo, i like Gogo's offensive numbers, but i might get laughed at this but Letang reminds me of Scott Niedermayer. Living in NJ i watched alot of Devils game, they both have that smooth skating ability, both are not afraid to take the body, and both can take the puck and rush up ice, i think Letand offensive game will round out soon. In two years a defensive pairing of Orpick and Letang is going to be sick.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby penny lane on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:57 am

Nice topic~ good God who knew we would ever be talking about our ~ the penguin defense like this?
NHL defensemen, there is always an exploding pinkie waiting to happen; so as much depth as GM Shero can hold onto would be great.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby DelPen on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:06 am

Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang, Goligoski. There is no reason not to keep all of them. When you look at salaries on the blue line, I don;t see how Gogo will get more than either Gill or Boucher per year right now. Same with Letang after next year.

Chip: Gonchar, Scuderi. If Whitney comes back and actually plays well on the PP and GoGo and letang make a solid #2 pair then Gonchar will be moved at the draft. He has value now and would save a ton of cap space. Scuds should be kept but not at Jeff Finger money. I think he'll be in the same range as Eaton at $2 million.

Crud: Boucher, Gill, Eaton. None will be in the pens long term plans next year and Eaton is insurance. If it took moving him to make the offense better I'd do it in a heartbeat.

What is good though we have Strait, Sneep, Grant and Bortuzzo all coming to WBS in the next 2-3 years. I would not at all be surprised to see all 4 signed to amateur tryouts for WBS this spring after their semesters and junior seasons are done.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:42 am

What kind of money does everyone think it would take to sign gonchar to another long term deal. The general consensus is to move him because he's expensive, do you think if the team gave him a longer team deal he would take a lower per year figure than the $5 million he gets now?

There just aren't many guys in the league as good as gonchar at defense. It's a lot to ask a combination of whitney, goligoski, and letang to assume that role. I don't think any of those three could play as signifant role as gonchar did last season.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:52 am

Well, they're one of the top five teams in the NHL right now without him, with two young D stepping up, plus Whitney has still yet to return. I don't think Gonchar's as essential as he's made out to be, and I definitely don't think that'll be the case in two years when Whitney, Letang, and Goligoski are better than they are now.

There are two reasons why they can't sign Gonchar past his current deal. I don't think it's realistic that he'd consider signing a contract at a lesser rate than his current one. He's already been playing at a bargain deal the last few years. If you believe he's one of the elite defenseman, look at what his peers are getting. Over $6 or $7 million. And even if he would stay at his current salary or one slightly lower, it still isn't likely to be feasible. The Pens will have a lot of money tied up in Crosby, Malkin, and Staal. Likewise for Whitney, Orpik, Letang, and Goligoski. And, of course, Fleury. Spending a significant cap hit on another defenseman doesn't seem like a good use of resources.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Three Stars on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:54 am

Remember when the prevailing wisdom was that Gonchar was terribly overpaid and overrated?

Ah, good times.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:56 am

He's already been playing at a bargain deal the last few years. If you believe he's one of the elite defenseman, look at what his peers are getting. Over $6 or $7 million.


Good point, it really depends on what another team is willing to spend on him. Based on his age he's probably best off going for the highest per year salary he can get after next season. considering what a guy like wade redden just got there is no way that gonch doesnt get atleast 6 million per.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Gaucho on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:56 am

Three Stars wrote:Remember when the prevailing wisdom was that Gonchar was terribly overpaid and overrated?

Ah, good times.


Back in the good old "worst draft pick ever" days. 8-)
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Three Stars on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:00 pm

Gaucho wrote:
Three Stars wrote:Remember when the prevailing wisdom was that Gonchar was terribly overpaid and overrated?

Ah, good times.


Back in the good old "worst draft pick ever" days. 8-)


If I didn't think it would degenerate quickly, I'd start a "conventional wisdom" thread for stuff like this.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Killiecrankie on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

I would sign Gonchar to an extension ASAP, one of the best offensive dmen in the world and has chemistry with both Malkin and Crosby. I would not trade him unless I absolutely had too.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Troy Loney on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:06 pm

At what point, and for what return do we trade gonchar???
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Kicksave on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:31 pm

KG wrote:
Kicksave wrote:Core: Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski. Tanger is quickly becoming a 2-way threat who should probably be kept ahead of Go-go, if the choice had to be made.

Core/Chip: Gonchar. The guy is a silent leader on this team. He is also a major cog in the transition game. I'd venture to guess he'd stay on board at a discounted price.

Crud: the Rest


Agreed....I would much rather solve the wing need via unrestricted free agency (havlat/cole/gionta) then deal a young chip again...

Gonchar/Orpik
Whitney/Letang
Goligoski

Going into next year is very solid. Hopefully bring back Scuderi to be the 6th d man (or eaton)...


Yup.

I like Scuds, but first and foremost need to lock up Letang. Then, if you can, you lock up Gogo but Letang is the better overall defensemen between the two.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Noise on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:48 pm

Gonchar- Core Chip- he's a very important leader to the team, but he's got a hefty contract- if trading him means keeping Staal, Talbot, Goligoski, Zigomanis, and Scuderi and signing 2 top 6 right wings, so be it.
Whitney- Core- signed long term
Letang- Core- he's fast plays a good 2 way game and his contract expires in what will be a slow summer for the Pens
Orpik- Core- signed long term
Goligoski- Core chip- Pens would like to keep him long term, but if he wants a big contract this summer and looks to sign an offer sheet, it might be bye bye.
Boucher- Chip- Pens PP could showcase him, then Gonchar and Whitney could come back, and they could trade him as a rental for a prospect/pick.
Scuderi- Core/ chip- re-sign him- he's among the best bottom pairing stay at home guys in the league, but he shouldn't be paid to much
Eaton- Crud- dump him
Gill- Crud- let him go when his contract expires
Last edited by Noise on Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby CKA24 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:57 pm

Regarding the alliteration, it loses it's effect when you say all three because the consonant sounds are not the same...

Sergei Gonchar - chip. One of the tops in the league. I'd keep on the cheap, but that probably won't happen
Ryan Whitney - core. Good young defenseman. I expect that he'll step it up in the 2nd half this year.
Brooks Orpik - core. Solid leader, solid physical defenseman. Nice job Ray.
Hal Gill - carp. What happened this offseason? Looks like a different player this year... in a bad way...
Mark Eaton - carp. I hate Cheechoo -- this guy is in the press box more often than not this and next season
Alex Goligoski - core. Great offensive instincts -- work on some puck posession and defense and he's gold
Kris Letang - core. Already one of the best young d-men in the league -- not impatient but he needs to find
the back of the net here soon.
Rob Scuderi - chip. I'll take him back next year -- not for over his value, but Shero has no problem letting
players know what he thinks they're worth.
Phillipe Boucher - ?? Who knows, maybe he'll be alright on the PP and be a servicable 6th d-man. Time will
tell.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Mongoose87 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:08 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:You don't lock players like scuderi up. Gogo and Letang both get new contracts this summer(LeGame's kicks in next year), scuderi is probably the last contract Shero worries about this summer, as after those two, they'll have 6 guys locked up, and will be looking for a 6-7 guy. Scuderi's either gonna have to take a pay cut or leave. I can't imagine him taking a pay cut when his value has increased.


Ok, so long as you don't mind our PK going down the crapper.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Samsdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:24 pm

Core: Whit, Orpik, Letang, Gogo
Chip/Core: Gonchar at the right price and role is core, Gonchar at 5 million per and still expecting to be the man 3 years down the road is chip.
Scuderi is core with no better options present, the Pens do need 6 d-men. Chip if something else happens.
Chip: Boucher, Gill
Crud: Eaton. Eaton. Eaton. Eaton. Eaton. Eaton.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Steve on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:49 pm

how about for our set of defensman, just a few years ago: :shock:

2 Josef Melichar
3 Jamie Pushor
4 Dan Focht
6 Richard Lintner
8 Hans Jonsson
28 Michal Rozsival
32 Dick Tarnstrom
39 Joel Bouchard
57 Shawn Heins
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Samsdog on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:51 pm

Steve wrote:how about for our set of defensman, just a few years ago: :shock:

2 Josef Melichar
3 Jamie Pushor
4 Dan Focht
6 Richard Lintner
8 Hans Jonsson
28 Michal Rozsival
32 Dick Tarnstrom
39 Joel Bouchard
57 Shawn Heins


Hans Jonsson. Good times. Sometimes I do miss the pure hilarity-based entertainment value of the old days. Though it's a lot funnier in retrospect than I found it at the time.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:20 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:You don't lock players like scuderi up. Gogo and Letang both get new contracts this summer(LeGame's kicks in next year), scuderi is probably the last contract Shero worries about this summer, as after those two, they'll have 6 guys locked up, and will be looking for a 6-7 guy. Scuderi's either gonna have to take a pay cut or leave. I can't imagine him taking a pay cut when his value has increased.


Ok, so long as you don't mind our PK going down the crapper.


The rest of the defensive talent is too good to be giving someone 1-5+ because he is a good pk guy. Especially when there is a better version of him(when healthy) already signed. The other guys are gonna have to get good at killing penalties some time.
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Re: Let's play "Core, Chip, or Crud" - defensemen edition

Postby Kicksave on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:27 pm

Rob Scuderi is somebody you want to be able to keep around as a #5 or 6 defensemen, but you can't dump 2-3 million into him. In hindsight, I would have rather given that money to him instead of Eaton but what is done is done.

We found Mark Eaton off the scrap heap a few seasons ago and he made the PK better, no reason to think we can't do it again.
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