2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Noise on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:53 am

I wonder how far up Gonchar + a late first could get the Pens.
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,438
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby icecats30 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:53 am

Noise wrote:
icecats30 wrote:they just better not draft another center.. thats all im saying.. enough with the best player available we cant expect to trade prospects all the time.. i want them to draft by need and get the best available at the wings.


I'd rather have the best available guy. If it is a center, so be it.

Either way the Pens probably aren't going to see the guy in the NHL for 3-4 years, so who knows what happens by then.

Also players can convert.



how does that help the depth of an organization? so you have a bunch of centers you hope maybe could play wing? sorry.. but you need to fill the holes you have not stock pile on a position your set on for the next 6 years, and probably longer.. i dont see sid or geno going anywhere before they are 30
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Kicksave on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:55 am

icecats30 wrote:
Noise wrote:
icecats30 wrote:they just better not draft another center.. thats all im saying.. enough with the best player available we cant expect to trade prospects all the time.. i want them to draft by need and get the best available at the wings.


I'd rather have the best available guy. If it is a center, so be it.

Either way the Pens probably aren't going to see the guy in the NHL for 3-4 years, so who knows what happens by then.

Also players can convert.



how does that help the depth of an organization? so you have a bunch of centers you hope maybe could play wing? sorry.. but you need to fill the holes you have not stock pile on a position your set on for the next 6 years


But what if Staal ends up being too expensive in 4-5 seasons. You can trade him off and plug in a less expensive part. That's how you keep up in the salary cap age. This isn't the NFL. Top draft choices aren't supposed to come in right away and help out. You don't draft for need. We've been spoiled with Sid, Malkin and Staal.
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:58 am

Kicksave wrote:But what if Staal ends up being too expensive in 4-5 seasons. You can trade him off and plug in a less expensive part. That's how you keep up in the salary cap age. This isn't the NFL. Top draft choices aren't supposed to come in right away and help out. You don't draft for need. We've been spoiled with Sid, Malkin and Staal.


Well, with Malkin and Staal anyway. Crosby is a bust.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,672
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Kicksave on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:59 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Kicksave wrote:But what if Staal ends up being too expensive in 4-5 seasons. You can trade him off and plug in a less expensive part. That's how you keep up in the salary cap age. This isn't the NFL. Top draft choices aren't supposed to come in right away and help out. You don't draft for need. We've been spoiled with Sid, Malkin and Staal.


Well, with Malkin and Staal anyway. Crosby is a bust.


Whoops. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby icecats30 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:03 am

Oh im fully aware of how spoiled the pens have been in the last 3 years.. but lets face it, sid and geno are here long term. regardless of what they decide to do with staal you can find 3rd and 4th line and even AHL depth centers in the later rounds. i personally would of drafted kessel over staal knowing we already had 2 scoring centers but thats just me. but then they went and the first pick they had last year was nathan moon, another center. If they take the best winger available that buys them 3 years of league min. salary so they dont have keep spending 3 or 4 million on guys like satan every year. it makes more sense to draft by need in the long run.
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:05 am

icecats30 wrote:Oh im fully aware of how spoiled the pens have been in the last 3 years.. but lets face it, sid and geno are here long term. regardless of what they decide to do with staal you can find 3rd and 4th line and even AHL depth centers in the later rounds. i personally would of drafted kessel over staal knowing we already had 2 scoring centers but thats just me. but then they went and the first pick they had last year was nathan moon, another center. If they take the best winger available that buys them 3 years of league min. salary so they dont have keep spending 3 or 4 million on guys like satan every year. it makes more sense to draft by need in the long run.


What you aren't grasping is:

A. Kessel is a scoring center
B. You draft the best player available because they will NOT go straight into the NHL. You don't draft for need because you don't know what you'll need 3-5 years down the road when the player finally makes the NHL.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,672
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby netwolf on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:10 am

Noise wrote:I wonder how far up Gonchar + a late first could get the Pens.


Not far. He has a no trade clause, and I don't think he'd be want to go to a team that was so bad they have a high 1st round pick.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,347
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby icecats30 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:10 am

ok thats my bed then i could of sworn kessel was a winger, but thats not the point.. i understand what your saying about not knowing what you will need.. but look at it this way.. when the pens signed sykora for 2 years, they could of had a winger developing already, so when sykora's contract is up there is already a guy to plug in and you will save 2 million dollars. i dont really look at last years draft because they didnt have a 1,2, or 3rd rounder.. so i can live with them taking the best available. either way, i think the pens seriously need to look into drafting wingers for not only the pens depth but organizationally as well.
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:16 am

Kessel does spend time on wing because Savard and Bergeron are better than him, but he is most effective at center, so the pens would be in the same situation as they are in now.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,672
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby netwolf on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:16 am

The Pens have forwards developing now. Luca Caputi is the name most people refer to, but Dustin Jeffrey has potential and Nick Johnson supposedly has a pretty good skillset. Veilleux has tremendous size and ability, and if he can get his head on straight, he could be another guy to watch. Pierro-Zabotel is another. None are what you would call bluechip, can't miss prospects, but it's not like they don't have anything in the pipeline either.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,347
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby icecats30 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:17 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Kessel does spend time on wing because Savard and Bergeron are better than him, but he is most effective at center, so the pens would be in the same situation as they are in now.


like i said.. that was my bad.. i was under the impression he was a winger.. he was just an example. if he was a winger like i thought then the pens wouldnt be in the same situation.
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:18 am

icecats30 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Kessel does spend time on wing because Savard and Bergeron are better than him, but he is most effective at center, so the pens would be in the same situation as they are in now.


like i said.. that was my bad.. i was under the impression he was a winger.. he was just an example. if he was a winger like i thought then the pens wouldnt be in the same situation.


Well I was just explaining why one might have thought Kessel was a wing.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,672
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby icecats30 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:22 am

so if the pens say had the 30th pick this year and you had 2 options, a really good center or a good winger, you would take the center? even though they are set for a long time?
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:25 am

Depends on how good each of them were. If they were comparable, i'd take the wing. If the center was clearly better, I'd take him and convert him. Kennedy and Talbot are both centers, they seem to do fine as wings. Id rather have a better center converted to wing than a lesser wing.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,672
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Noise on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:26 am

icecats30 wrote:so if the pens say had the 30th pick this year and you had 2 options, a really good center or a good winger, you would take the center? even though they are set for a long time?


If I think the center is better and more likely to be an impact player in the NHL, then yes.

You have to think of prospects as simultaneously being assets and possible future players.
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,438
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Cosmo_kramer on Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:27 am

Noise wrote:I wonder how far up Gonchar + a late first could get the Pens.


I would rather trade Whitney. He'd get us more and I think we can get a couple more years (past his contract) out of Gonchar. With Gogo and Letang playing like they are (and if they keep it up), Whitney begins to become more and more expendable.
Cosmo_kramer
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,373
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:13 pm

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:25 am

Cosmo_kramer wrote:
Noise wrote:I wonder how far up Gonchar + a late first could get the Pens.


I would rather trade Whitney. He'd get us more and I think we can get a couple more years (past his contract) out of Gonchar. With Gogo and Letang playing like they are (and if they keep it up), Whitney begins to become more and more expendable.


Letang and Goligoski's ceilings aren't near Whitney's. Whitney may become expendable at some point, but it won't be Letang or Gogo making him so. Gonchar may have a few more productive years in him, but if that injury hampered Whitney in the least, the days where Gonchar is more productive than Whitney are basically over, if not now, then certainly after Gonchar's contract completes.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,672
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby purelebo84 on Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:12 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:The Pens should trade up and draft MSP.

Wadell might package it along with Kovalchuk and Bogosian for Dupuis and the rights to sign Boucher.
purelebo84
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,949
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: The 412

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Jesse on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:20 am

tombarrassorules wrote:i feel like johnny t's stock is falling a bit for some reason. obviously he will go 1 or 2, but compared to two years ago, i feel like people have soured on him a little.

that whole trying to get in the draft last year and then the debacle with the potential signing with the leafs reaks of Lindros-esque puke factor. i understand he was close to the deadline, but it bothered me how persistent he and his agent were about getting into the league for this season.


Its because his skating never improved. Plus, people are always looking for that "next one". I like 2010's consensus no. 1 in Taylor Hall, but you already have a few people anointing him the next big thing.

That type of strategy is dangerous and never works like people expect it to.

FWIW, Tavares didn't try to get into the draft, the Leafs tried to draft him. His agent abandoned the idea in advance.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,640
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Jesse on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:26 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:The Pens should trade up and draft MSP.


It doesn't appear that Ray Shero has a penchant for drafting European players, let alone trading up for them.

MSP is a great talent, but I don't see it happening.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,640
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Jesse on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:31 am

Mosby wrote:I like Zack Kassian and Michael Latta...two guys that play with a lot of jam. Bubnick would be a good pick for the Penguins too. I doubt that we'll be in a position to pick either Kassian or Bubnick.


Latta looks okay. Sometimes he gets a little too "Jammy", if you know what I mean. He's got a tendency to take bad penalties at bad times. But he certainly plays with a good offensive skill set and has a lot of room for improvement at many levels. Certainly an interesting prospect.

I really, really like Zack Kassian. Best case scenario for me is Kassian or Bubnick fall to us, as you mentioned. Kassian has the right mix of the power side of the game, mixed with some fighting and edginess, mixed with actual statistical results. He can do quite a bit. Again, I love Bubnick, but part of me would feel jaded drafting him because he belongs on a team where he can become a leader and eventually a captain.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,640
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby Jesse on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:44 am

mikey287 wrote:
Jesse wrote:Jimmy Bubnick should end up a top 7 pick at the end of the year. The guy has future captain material written all over him and has the best natural shot of anyone in this draft class.

I spoke to a guy who's opinion I trust very much, and he harped on Simon Despres to me a lot today. I've seen Despres play a few times when I've watched Alex Grant. He's a great fit for the Penguins. The e-mail I recieved from this guy really got me thinking about what a great fit Despres would be. He already has chemistry with Grant via their time together.


Couple of interesting points, I haven't been exposed to Despres enough to form a valid opinion of him...although, being the top-rated Q player (right?) says a lot...I'll have to look at Bubnick closer, I thought he was a little high on this list (respectfully)...but sometimes if I only see players a handful of times, I catch their worst games or their best games...(you should see some of the hate mail I get from Hockey's Future on a guy like Richard Bachman from Colorado College...something as simple as "it's a long road to the NHL for the undersized Bachman, if he makes it at all" - something quite generic draws some ire...)

Anyway, while I'm talking about Dallas prospects, Jesse, Jamie Benn...thoughts? What an impression he made as a rookie in the Dub last year, and boy, has he not disappointed for Kelowna this year...major league gem for Dallas in the 5th round (IIRC), wouldn't you say?


I think Guillame Goulet will end up being a contestant for that top Q spot before the year is over. A bit undersized, but so solid.

How can you not root for Jamie Benn? Going to the BCHL was the best choice he ever made. He learned how to score there. It carried over to the WHL and now look at him. 21 goals in 21 games. Unreal.

You're talking about a guy with natural scoring talent at 6'2, and he never uses his size? That's one hell of an impressive skill set.

Everyone keeps saying "Wait, Benn will cool down." and he hasn't. Not one bit.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,640
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: 2009 Draft (Jesse to thread!)

Postby sina220 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:48 pm

Looking at who may be available for us this year, I'm really liking the 6'1" 195 lbs rookie Russki D-Man playing for Drummondville, Dmitri Kulikov. He's got 23 points in 21 games, 4 goals (all powerplay) and a +8 rating, all really good numbers for a foreign rookie who's leading the blueline on the Q's 3rd place team. ISS has him ranked 23rd which is within our reach considering we'd be picking 25th if the draft were today. I'd predict, though, that he's only going to rise a bit and probably end up ranked around 20th overall at the end of the year. Still a more manageable "trade-up" than trying to land a more notable prospect.

Also given the fact that Letang and Goligoski are both ready for more prominent NHL experience and are no longer really "prospects", our depth for puck-moving defensemen in the system just got a lot thinnner. Alex Grant is really the only defensive prospect we've got now with any decent offensive potential. Maybe D'Aversa, but his ceiling isn't too high. I think Kulikov could really add some offensive talent to a defensive prospect pool that is now pretty stocked with solid positional defenders, only a few of which really have any offensive\transition game.
sina220
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:02 pm
Location: "I believe in GOD, only I spell it N.A.T.U.R.E." ~ F.L. Wright

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: champeen and 10 guests

e-mail