Salary Cap Headed Down

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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Noise on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:14 am

cs6687 wrote:$55 million is only $1.8 million less than the current cap. No big loss there. Teams should be okay next year. It's 2010-2011 that I'm cringing about.


Well good thing Gonchar's contract expires then and the only major re-signing will be Kris Letang
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby SoupOrSam on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 am

Va Beach Pens Fan wrote:I'm waiting for the first pro sport to make a conscious decision to stop these ridiculous salaries, as well as teams lowering ticket prices, due to the economy....



Let me know know when that approaches. When it does happen would you let me borrow your DeLorean, I'd like to travel back to 1990. :)
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:35 am

I wonder what the thoughts of the people who wanted to dump all kinds of money into players because they believed the cap would continue to rise 5-6M a year are thinking now. This is exactly why you have to be fiscally responsible and project into the future, and be responsible with the contracts you give out.

What are the GMs here going to do with all those bloated contracts they wanted to sign players to and bashed Shero for not doing it.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby SoupOrSam on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:37 am

How sexy does Malkin's and Crosby's contract appear? MAF's? Campbell's mm mmm good.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Nizzy on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:43 am

In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:46 am

Va Beach Pens Fan wrote:I'm waiting for the first pro sport to make a conscious decision to stop these ridiculous salaries, as well as teams lowering ticket prices, due to the economy....


Tickets will be priced at what people are willing to pay for them. Supply and demand.

It is the fans, not the league, that would have to step up and quit paying those prices for tickets if ticket prices will be lowered. As for the player salaries, it is based on revenues, and as long as the team is making the money, the players will be getting a large chunk of it.

I complain about the BCS and how college FB needs a playoff, but I'm guilty of it not changing because I still watch the games. Until I quit, I can't really complain that much.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:29 am

This is why players taking home town discounts and shero locking guys into reasonable long terms contracts works for us, it put us on good financial footing. Its going to affect how Staal's contract is apporached though.

Part of the NHL financial problems as always been by idiot owners. the fought to get a salary cap in place, now the idiots owners are over spending on guys, retards all of them.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby bill from turtle creek on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:35 am

Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


Have you ever heard about the Canadian dollar? How about the impact it has on the salary cap when it falls relative to the USD? You might want to study that.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:49 am

darkstar57 wrote:This is why players taking home town discounts and shero locking guys into reasonable long terms contracts works for us, it put us on good financial footing. Its going to affect how Staal's contract is apporached though.

Part of the NHL financial problems as always been by idiot owners. the fought to get a salary cap in place, now the idiots owners are over spending on guys, retards all of them.


I don't know how it is over spending. THey have parameters set, and they can chose to spend how they want within those parameters. Some teams have a lot of cap room, and need a certain player, so they will pay the money for that guy, even if he truly isn't worth it. But it's not like they are breaking the bank like pre lockout days. You have X amount of money to go around, and you can choose how to spend it as you wish.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby columbia on Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:59 am

bill from turtle creek wrote:
Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


Have you ever heard about the Canadian dollar? How about the impact it has on the salary cap when it falls relative to the USD? You might want to study that.
.

That's certainly an issue, but one has to wonder whether it could fall any further. It's ~ .80 CAN to 1 USD right now, which is pretty much the average for the last 50 years, so not really a factor.....Those Canadian cities should have teams. The NHL really screwed up by expanding to non-hockey territory. I live in the South and - trust me - no one cares about hockey in this part of the country. There are the dedicated few, but casual fans really don't exist.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Guido on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:02 am

bill from turtle creek wrote:
Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


Have you ever heard about the Canadian dollar? How about the impact it has on the salary cap when it falls relative to the USD? You might want to study that.


Not to mention, where does the funding come from to build an NHL calibre arena in Winnipeg or Quebec City? Those cities lost their teams for a reason, almost the same way Pittsburgh nearly lost its team.

I'm surprised nobody has proposed this idea; with the prospect of a lowering cap, how many more high-priced, aging veterans or fringe NHL players go to the KHL? We've seen a few defect this year, but if there's less money to be spent on players here, Russia may seem like a more lucrative option.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:08 am

I don't mind at all that the NHL expanding to non traditional markets. It was a great opportunity to expand the fanbase of the game, which, we can all agree that it needs to expand. Some markets have been successful such as Dallas, San Jose, Tampa, and Carolina. Others haven't.

I do agree though that the Canadian teams shouldn't have been moved. But then again, those cities were unable to build new arenas and upgrade their facilities to remain competitive.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Mongoose87 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:12 am

Guido wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:
Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


Have you ever heard about the Canadian dollar? How about the impact it has on the salary cap when it falls relative to the USD? You might want to study that.


Not to mention, where does the funding come from to build an NHL calibre arena in Winnipeg or Quebec City? Those cities lost their teams for a reason, almost the same way Pittsburgh nearly lost its team.

I'm surprised nobody has proposed this idea; with the prospect of a lowering cap, how many more high-priced, aging veterans or fringe NHL players go to the KHL? We've seen a few defect this year, but if there's less money to be spent on players here, Russia may seem like a more lucrative option.

I'd be willing to bet, if the opportunity came up to get hockey teams in either of those cities, the mayors would be all over it. Hockey is a way of life in Canada, very much like the Steelers are for many in Pittsburgh. Those mayors would be national heroes.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:14 am

Mongoose87 wrote:I'd be willing to bet, if the opportunity came up to get hockey teams in either of those cities, the mayors would be all over it. Hockey is a way of life in Canada, very much like the Steelers are for many in Pittsburgh. Those mayors would be national heroes.


If that were the case, they would have never left. There is only so much you can do if you don't have the funding.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Mongoose87 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:23 am

newarenanow wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:I'd be willing to bet, if the opportunity came up to get hockey teams in either of those cities, the mayors would be all over it. Hockey is a way of life in Canada, very much like the Steelers are for many in Pittsburgh. Those mayors would be national heroes.


If that were the case, they would have never left. There is only so much you can do if you don't have the funding.


They'd get it now. Canadian hockey fans talk about the Holocaust more favorably than the Nordiques leaving.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:43 am

Don't forgot the Canadian Dollar was not worth even close to what it is now, it was tough for Canadians teams to maintain against US based teams because the US dollar was worth more.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:47 am

darkstar57 wrote:Don't forgot the Canadian Dollar was not worth even close to what it is now, it was tough for Canadians teams to maintain against US based teams because the US dollar was worth more.


The value of the Canadian dollar has significantly decreased over the last 4 months. It's to the level it used to be.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby pensfan20 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:10 pm

Please, as i remember, The Nordiques left not because of attendance or the economy. I could be wrong, but back then i lived up North and from what all the papers reported they sold to an American owner who promised to keep the team where it was, then the next season moved it. There were no bargain agreement in place to prevent teams from moving and so they did. Now there is so much redtape that to move a team is next to impossible (ie Nashville). I do believe a team back in Quebec city would do great, also a team in Hamilton would be successful. A team though in Winnipeg, not so much. They already looked into it and there is a lack of Corprate support there.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:15 pm

Quebec had serious financial problems and its not a very good sports market. I don't think it's any more attractive now than it was then. I think the only Canadian market that would work is another team in the Toronto area.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Guido on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:28 pm

pensfan20 wrote:Please, as i remember, The Nordiques left not because of attendance or the economy. I could be wrong, but back then i lived up North and from what all the papers reported they sold to an American owner who promised to keep the team where it was, then the next season moved it. There were no bargain agreement in place to prevent teams from moving and so they did. Now there is so much redtape that to move a team is next to impossible (ie Nashville). I do believe a team back in Quebec city would do great, also a team in Hamilton would be successful. A team though in Winnipeg, not so much. They already looked into it and there is a lack of Corprate support there.


That's fine and all, but since the Nordiques were relocated to Colorado, there have been 4 expansion teams. If Quebec were such an attractive market, surely one of those teams would have been placed there.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Yeah, this information is very troublesome. This news would really hurt the Pens for next season, and, it would absolutely cripple a lot of other teams: the Rangers stand out as the worst, but, there are many others. You can say "good for them" as much as you want, but, its just not good for the league, and, the Penguins situation will not exactly be rosy either.

The lack of a 'real' TV deal has to be killing this league. ESPN's treatment of the NHL is despicable. Eight games last night and they had one highlight (Pens) on Sportscenter. Two other plays from the NJ/FLA game made the top ten plays, but, they literally had brief Pens highlights, a 20 second Matt Barnaby blurb on Crosby, and that was it. Bucci even said during the broadcast, "Eight NHL games on tap tonight, we have highlights of one." Terrible...
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Noise on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:47 pm

Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


You forgot Atlanta and Tampa Bay.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Nizzy on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:39 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:
Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


Have you ever heard about the Canadian dollar? How about the impact it has on the salary cap when it falls relative to the USD? You might want to study that.


No I'm not wasting my time learning about what canada's economy when America's is probably much worse. I'm in computer networking, not finance. The ISSUE I was discussing has to do with terrible franchise locations with a weak fan base, which in general pulls down the league. Didn't revenues of the 6 canada teams alone make up a HIGH percent of the total overall league revenues?

So what I'm and just saying is that if they would put franchises in better locations that would make more revenues, and even if the canada economy was slumping it wouldn't matter as much.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:47 pm

So what I'm and just saying is that if they would put franchises in better locations that would make more revenues, and even if the canada economy was slumping it wouldn't matter as much.


Sure it would. Winnipeg and Quebec are looked at as "better locations," but neither of them were viable financially, and even with the salary cap I doubt that's changed enough.

The thing that gets ignored with teams like Florida, Phoenix, and Atlanta is that they all have something in common - they've all been poorly run, perennially bad teams. Florida hasn't made the playoffs in what, ten years? Phoenix has been bad for most of the decade. Atlanta's had one good season. I seem to remember the Panthers and Coyotes having good attendance when they were successful teams. We all know in Pittsburgh that constant losing will drive fans away. Atlanta's attendance was on the upswing as they got better and now it's plummeted as the team has plummeted. I'd like to see what those markets could do with a team that's good for a few years. Phoenix is at least on that path. I'd be more concerned about a team like Nashville that wasn't drawing even when they were at the top of the league and still struggled to do anything as the team's future is in question.

Not pointing any fingers specifically because I don't know where people in this thread stand, but what gets me the most is when people complain about the NHL not being in "hockey cities" but then simultaneously complain about the league not getting exposure in the US. You can't have it both ways. It's either going to be a niche sport or they're going to try to expand to unconventional locations. Phoenix, Atlanta, and Miami are huge markets. A lot of southern expansion HAS been successful. If the NHL is ever going to be big nationally in the US, it has to get rooted into the big southern markets.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Draftnik on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:49 pm

Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


There are a variety of reasons the NHL won't work in Quebec City. The size of the city itself is irrelevant. Pittsburgh has a DMA of ~ 2.3M people. There is no way the city itself could support the Pens. It is the same with Quebec. Quebec needs a new building. Governments in Canada for the most part do not build arenas for pro sports teams. Montreal built the Bell Centre with private funds. There is nobody lining up to build an arena in Quebec for a few hundred million dollars. Teams in Canada also pay property taxes on their arenas. That can be tens of millions of dollars per year. Arenas in the US are owned by entities such as the SEA to avoid that scenario. There also is no large TV market for Quebec City to get a lucrative RSN contract for TV. Quebec City doesn’t have a large corporate presence to buy boxes, suites, and club seats. Fans buying tickets to regular seats don’t drive enough revenue for a franchise. The lack of major corporations also would not provide large local sponsorship revenues. The economics are wrong in a multitude of ways. The Nordiques left Quebec because the economics were bad. They have not changed since then.

Phoenix is a struggling NHL market to be sure, but the DMA added ~ 250K people/jobs in the last 5 to 10 years. Many of the Sunbelt markets will be the largest US DMAs in another 10 years. The NHL is ahead of the curve in terms of putting roots down where the people are. Some of these markets may not make it, but the business strategy is sound to put teams in the largest US markets,
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