Salary Cap Headed Down

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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby AlexPKeaton on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:49 pm

Nizzy wrote:In my opinion:

The NHL needs to stop its BS and what I mean by that its simple:

TAKE away these franchises: Nashville, Flordia, Phoenix and put them in REAL HOCKEY CITIES.

Some people on here will say "Quebec is too small to have a hockey team" What the HECK does that even mean? Pittsburgh is 300,000 people and we sell out everygame. Quebec is 500,000 people. The NHL needs to put franchises where they belong. Only 6 team's in canada is not enough. The smaller Canadien city fans will put more money towards merchandise as well compared to a dumb team in Phoenix.

EDIT: Look at the Minnesota Wild. They got a franchise back and they have sold out EVERYGAME. Your telling me the same wouldn't happen if Quebec or Winnipeg got a team back?


The population of Allegheny County is about 1.3 million.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:03 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Not pointing any fingers specifically because I don't know where people in this thread stand, but what gets me the most is when people complain about the NHL not being in "hockey cities" but then simultaneously complain about the league not getting exposure in the US. You can't have it both ways. It's either going to be a niche sport or they're going to try to expand to unconventional locations. Phoenix, Atlanta, and Miami are huge markets. A lot of southern expansion HAS been successful. If the NHL is ever going to be big nationally in the US, it has to get rooted into the big southern markets.



This right here speaks volumes. Many people complain that hockey needs to build a fan base, gain more viewers in the US, generate more revenues, and then in the next breath, say teams in major media outlets with large population bases should be moved to cities in the middle of nowhere Canada. You can't have both.

I applaud the effort the NHL made to expand it's product. They made the league reach in to the south and west in cities like Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Phoenix, San Jose, etc.

As someone else stated, cities like Quebec City and Winnipeg don't have the corporate support established to make the franchise profitable. Sure, they'd probably sell out every game, but the big money makers, the luxury boxes, the corporate sponsorships would me minimal at best. That is what makes a franchise viable.

Also, many of the teams that are struggling with attendence are also struggling on the ice. But history has shown, outside of Nashville, when those teams are winning, the support is there, just like in Pgh. When the Pens sucked, I remember going to Mellon Arena when 10K people were there. Nashville is the only city where the franchise has been successful, but that has not translated into support.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:14 pm

Kraftster wrote:The lack of a 'real' TV deal has to be killing this league. ESPN's treatment of the NHL is despicable. Eight games last night and they had one highlight (Pens) on Sportscenter. Two other plays from the NJ/FLA game made the top ten plays, but, they literally had brief Pens highlights, a 20 second Matt Barnaby blurb on Crosby, and that was it. Bucci even said during the broadcast, "Eight NHL games on tap tonight, we have highlights of one." Terrible...


ESPN is a business, and it is in their best interests to make as much money as possible. In order to do that, they will promote the heck out of any sport that their station carries. Unfortunately, the NHL is not one of their products, therefore, you will not see a lot of highlights. Until, the NHL gets a contract with ESPN, ESPN owes nothing to the NHL.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Henry Hank wrote:

Not pointing any fingers specifically because I don't know where people in this thread stand, but what gets me the most is when people complain about the NHL not being in "hockey cities" but then simultaneously complain about the league not getting exposure in the US. You can't have it both ways. It's either going to be a niche sport or they're going to try to expand to unconventional locations. Phoenix, Atlanta, and Miami are huge markets. A lot of southern expansion HAS been successful. If the NHL is ever going to be big nationally in the US, it has to get rooted into the big southern markets.


Exactly. And its done all the time by people. If it ultimately fails and hockey reveals itself to only be a niche sport, then it was absolutely worth the swing and miss of expanding into these markets.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby AlexPKeaton on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:21 pm

A little wikipedia work

Top 10 Canada Metropolitan Populations:

1 Toronto (Mississauga) 5,113,149
2 Montreal (Laval, Longueuil) 3,635,571
3 Vancouver (Surrey) 2,116,581
4 Ottawa-Gatineau 1,130,761
5 Calgary 1,079,310
6 Edmonton 1,034,945
7 Quebec City (Lévis) 715,515
8 Winnipeg 694,668
9 Hamilton (Burlington) 692,911
10 London 457,720


9 of the top 10 US markets are bigger than Toronto. Pittsburgh would be #3 on that list.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_U ... ical_Areas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_th ... _in_Canada
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby pfim on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:28 pm

I'd be willing to bet, if the opportunity came up to get hockey teams in either of those cities, the mayors would be all over it. Hockey is a way of life in Canada, very much like the Steelers are for many in Pittsburgh. Those mayors would be national heroes.


People in Quebec barely care that there's no NHL team there from what I've witnessed. They're hockey fans, not NHL fans.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby superconan on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:31 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Of course, there are teams that are worse off. Detroit is looking at Zetterberg, Hossa, and Franzen all being UFAs. They've already got about $41 million tied up into the cap for next season. Hudler is also a RFA and they'd have to replace a couple other guys. They might not even be able to sign two of the big three.


I did read somewhere they might let Franzen walk with the hope of keeping Hossa instead. I would expect a Zetterberg deal would be in place before the end of the regular season.

It will be interesting to see what Detroit does. Right now they are spending just over 2 million a year for goaltending. What will happen if they have to upgrade there and spend even 2 or 3 million more a year?

If they had to do that this season, they have not have been able to sign Hossa.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby pfim on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:34 pm

pensfan20 wrote:Please, as i remember, The Nordiques left not because of attendance or the economy. I could be wrong, but back then i lived up North and from what all the papers reported they sold to an American owner who promised to keep the team where it was, then the next season moved it. There were no bargain agreement in place to prevent teams from moving and so they did. Now there is so much redtape that to move a team is next to impossible (ie Nashville). I do believe a team back in Quebec city would do great, also a team in Hamilton would be successful. A team though in Winnipeg, not so much. They already looked into it and there is a lack of Corprate support there.


He sold the team to the Denver people because he couldn't get a bailout from the provincial government. They had no money, were playing in a joke of an arena, and had little hope of generating more revenue and competing with other clubs, especially with the Canadian Dollar equalling $.78 of a US Dollar.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:47 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Kraftster wrote:The lack of a 'real' TV deal has to be killing this league. ESPN's treatment of the NHL is despicable. Eight games last night and they had one highlight (Pens) on Sportscenter. Two other plays from the NJ/FLA game made the top ten plays, but, they literally had brief Pens highlights, a 20 second Matt Barnaby blurb on Crosby, and that was it. Bucci even said during the broadcast, "Eight NHL games on tap tonight, we have highlights of one." Terrible...


ESPN is a business, and it is in their best interests to make as much money as possible. In order to do that, they will promote the heck out of any sport that their station carries. Unfortunately, the NHL is not one of their products, therefore, you will not see a lot of highlights. Until, the NHL gets a contract with ESPN, ESPN owes nothing to the NHL.


Sure. That is true. I'm not under a delusion that ESPN should have some philanthropic agenda to promote all sports equally. I suppose 'despicable' was a poor word choice and made it seem like I thought they owed something to the NHL. Its just incredibly frustrating.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:59 pm

Kraftster wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Kraftster wrote:The lack of a 'real' TV deal has to be killing this league. ESPN's treatment of the NHL is despicable. Eight games last night and they had one highlight (Pens) on Sportscenter. Two other plays from the NJ/FLA game made the top ten plays, but, they literally had brief Pens highlights, a 20 second Matt Barnaby blurb on Crosby, and that was it. Bucci even said during the broadcast, "Eight NHL games on tap tonight, we have highlights of one." Terrible...


ESPN is a business, and it is in their best interests to make as much money as possible. In order to do that, they will promote the heck out of any sport that their station carries. Unfortunately, the NHL is not one of their products, therefore, you will not see a lot of highlights. Until, the NHL gets a contract with ESPN, ESPN owes nothing to the NHL.


Sure. That is true. I'm not under a delusion that ESPN should have some philanthropic agenda to promote all sports equally. I suppose 'despicable' was a poor word choice and made it seem like I thought they owed something to the NHL. Its just incredibly frustrating.


Indeed it is frustrating. I hope sometime in the future, even if it isn't an exclusive contract, the NHL can come to an agreement with ESPN to show games maybe on Wednesday nights or something.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:03 pm

superconan wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Of course, there are teams that are worse off. Detroit is looking at Zetterberg, Hossa, and Franzen all being UFAs. They've already got about $41 million tied up into the cap for next season. Hudler is also a RFA and they'd have to replace a couple other guys. They might not even be able to sign two of the big three.


I did read somewhere they might let Franzen walk with the hope of keeping Hossa instead. I would expect a Zetterberg deal would be in place before the end of the regular season.

It will be interesting to see what Detroit does. Right now they are spending just over 2 million a year for goaltending. What will happen if they have to upgrade there and spend even 2 or 3 million more a year?

If they had to do that this season, they have not have been able to sign Hossa.


The more I think about it, the more I see them only being able to keep Zetterberg. Hudler's actually got 16 points in 18 games. If he keeps that pace up, he's going to have a 70 point season. That's another several million dollar investment to lock him up. Samuelsson also is a UFA after the season and he also has 16 points in 18 games. I think it's safe to say that this is the last year that Detroit's going to be a super team. They could be looking at losing Hossa, Franzen, and Samuelsson which is a pretty good portion of their offensive depth. Still a good team, but they're going to experience some heavy losses of their own.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:15 pm

Kraftster wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Kraftster wrote:The lack of a 'real' TV deal has to be killing this league. ESPN's treatment of the NHL is despicable. Eight games last night and they had one highlight (Pens) on Sportscenter. Two other plays from the NJ/FLA game made the top ten plays, but, they literally had brief Pens highlights, a 20 second Matt Barnaby blurb on Crosby, and that was it. Bucci even said during the broadcast, "Eight NHL games on tap tonight, we have highlights of one." Terrible...


ESPN is a business, and it is in their best interests to make as much money as possible. In order to do that, they will promote the heck out of any sport that their station carries. Unfortunately, the NHL is not one of their products, therefore, you will not see a lot of highlights. Until, the NHL gets a contract with ESPN, ESPN owes nothing to the NHL.


Sure. That is true. I'm not under a delusion that ESPN should have some philanthropic agenda to promote all sports equally. I suppose 'despicable' was a poor word choice and made it seem like I thought they owed something to the NHL. Its just incredibly frustrating.


I actually have a buddy that works at ESPN and basically he said ESPN gets about 10X the amount of revenue from basketball then they did with hockey. They wanted to get the NBA regular season games onto ESPN more and they did and to do that they had to drop the NHL.

ESPN shows more hockey highlights after football season is over when the only sport going on his basketball. The order of sports on ESPN is

1. Football
2. Baseball
3. Basketball
4. Hockey
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:17 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
superconan wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:Of course, there are teams that are worse off. Detroit is looking at Zetterberg, Hossa, and Franzen all being UFAs. They've already got about $41 million tied up into the cap for next season. Hudler is also a RFA and they'd have to replace a couple other guys. They might not even be able to sign two of the big three.


I did read somewhere they might let Franzen walk with the hope of keeping Hossa instead. I would expect a Zetterberg deal would be in place before the end of the regular season.

It will be interesting to see what Detroit does. Right now they are spending just over 2 million a year for goaltending. What will happen if they have to upgrade there and spend even 2 or 3 million more a year?

If they had to do that this season, they have not have been able to sign Hossa.


The more I think about it, the more I see them only being able to keep Zetterberg. Hudler's actually got 16 points in 18 games. If he keeps that pace up, he's going to have a 70 point season. That's another several million dollar investment to lock him up. Samuelsson also is a UFA after the season and he also has 16 points in 18 games. I think it's safe to say that this is the last year that Detroit's going to be a super team. They could be looking at losing Hossa, Franzen, and Samuelsson which is a pretty good portion of their offensive depth. Still a good team, but they're going to experience some heavy losses of their own.


I totally agree. I think, assuming they "pick" Zetterberg, he'll be the only one that stays. Perhaps his wonky back will lead them to low ball him, but, you have to imagine that he's the one that stays, and, I think if that's the case, all but one of the others you mentioned will be heading out.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:22 pm

I didn't think there was ever any doubt that Zetterberg was the one who would be staying.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby isotopes014 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:07 pm

does this mean the league is doing poorly compared to last year and the year before?
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby Kicksave on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:21 pm

isotopes014 wrote:does this mean the league is doing poorly compared to last year and the year before?


It also has a lot to do with the economy.
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Re: Salary Cap Headed Down

Postby bhaw on Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:09 pm

If the cap is headed down, you almost have to think Whitney/Gonchar will be moved or Staal can't be signed and still have wingers to play with. An unfortunate reality, and I would prefer to see Gonchar moved for some assets.

I just don't see how this team can fill out the offensive roster with all these guys under contract and Staal. I'm not anti-Dupuis, but you can't have 4 of him in the top 6 next year. Maybe Pesonen can fill a spot if he wants to stay in Pittsburgh. Sykora will get money somewhere else, and I don't see Shero bidding too high for him.
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