Whitney returns to practice...

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Whitney returns to practice...

Postby KG on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:57 pm

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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby bringitonhome on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:02 pm

Very good news.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby maudineormsby on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:05 pm

Will someone with the knowledge please clue me in as to what the timeline for a whitney return is? Will be have a conditioning assignment in WBS? It says "sometime in December" for a return - early, late? How long would a conditioning assignment be and does that factor into his return time?

Exciting news.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby KG on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:05 pm

Orpik-Letang
Whitney-Scuderi
Boucher-Goligoski-Gill-Eaton

Any chance Goligoski gets sent down to WBS?
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:10 pm

Any chance Goligoski gets sent down to WBS?


I think it's the most likely outcome if there aren't any more injuries. For one, it's the easiest move to make because they'd probably not like to carry eight D and he doesn't have to clear waivers. But Whitney coming back also cuts into his role. Goligoski leads the team in PP ice time. Most of his production has been on the PP. With Whitney, Boucher, and Letang still around plus Malkin, Goligoski wouldn't be needed on the PP. He's either going to need some injuries to occur or Boucher's going to have to play poorly if he's going to stay in the lineup.

Whitney should be back in a month to a month and a half.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Noise on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:10 pm

KG wrote:Orpik-Letang
Whitney-Scuderi
Boucher-Goligoski-Gill-Eaton

Any chance Goligoski gets sent down to WBS?


Maybe.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Eismann on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:15 pm

Eaton to DET for HOssa


:pop:
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Rocco on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:16 pm

So can we start blaming him for everything that goes wrong again?
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby ffemtreed on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:16 pm

I think there is a large chance Go Go gets sent down this year. Esp with Shero bringing in someone who can play the point on the powerplay. Unless a major trade comes along, Go Go is the only D man to be eligible to go down without having to clear waivers.

Once everyone is healthy we have too many D-man. Gonchar,Orpik,Whitney,Letang,Scuderi,Gill,Boucher,Eaton,Goligoski

Say what you want about Hall Gill, but it can't be denied our PK has drastically improved with him there. Our 2 biggest weaknesses from last year where face-offs and PK. We have improved both this year. These little pick ups that Shero has made may help us more than a Hossa replacement. Players like Zigomantis, Gill and even Dupius to a certain extent really help our team in intangible ways. Having all these ingrediants put together is what makes a great team.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby penny lane on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:18 pm

Whitney Who? just teasing~ somebody has to come back and shut that back door pass on the power play.
:)

Welcome back.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:19 pm

is it time to starting the whitney whipping yet or should we wait a week or two?
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:20 pm

Say what you want about Hall Gill, but it can't be denied our PK has drastically improved with him there. Our 2 biggest weaknesses from last year where face-offs and PK. We have improved both this year. These little pick ups that Shero has made may help us more than a Hossa replacement. Players like Zigomantis, Gill and even Dupius to a certain extent really help our team in intangible ways. Having all these ingrediants put together is what makes a great team.


Completely agree. A lot of people are too focused on Gill's lack of mobility and puck-handling skills and ignore why he was brought here and the ramifications of it. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Pens went from a PK in the 20's to being basically top ten caliber since Gill came over. He's got the size to protect the front of the crease and he's very good at using his long reach to clog lanes and break up passes. Obviously, he has his weaknesses but he fills an important niche and I don't want to see him out of the lineup.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby JeffDFD on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:21 pm

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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby KG on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:22 pm

Orpik-Letang
Scuderi-Whitney
Boucher-Gill
-Eaton-

Ray Ray won't be pleased his boy is riding the pine...
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Admin on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:24 pm

darkstar57 wrote:is it time to starting the whitney whipping yet or should we wait a week or two?

I like Whitney but he's been invisible this season. :P
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Nizzy on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:31 pm

I still can't figure out why I dislike Eaton so much now. I really don't want him on this team, he hasn't even played that bad... I just think it might have to do with Eaton getting a contract already over Scuderi who has been here much longer.

Nice lines KG

Orpik-Letang
Scuderi-Whitney
Boucher-Gill
Goligoski

For me.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Tybrus on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:34 pm

This news pleases me, but I don't want him to rush back and re-injure himself. We need him ready for the playoffs.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:38 pm

Scuderi's really only played one more season here over Eaton.

I think you have to look at the Eaton signing in proper context. They signed him on day one of free agency. I still maintain it was a bargain contract. Guys like Finger and Salvador are no better than Eaton but signed larger deals. Also remember that at the time, Orpik was a UFA. Their plan A at that time likely was to sign Hossa and let Orpik go. They couldn't count on Goligoski to be NHL ready at that point. They also signed him knowing that Gill, Scuderi, and Sydor were scheduled to be UFAs after this season and that the cap squeeze likely would be pretty tight.

A lot of things have changed since then. They did end up signing Orpik. Injuries to Gonchar and Whitney opened up playing time for Goligoski who quickly established that he is ready for regular NHL time. They were able to fleece Dallas into giving up Boucher for Sydor. You couldn't have predicted all this when Eaton was signed. It was a gamble that hasn't worked out yet but there's still plenty of time for it to work out. We're still one injury away from him stepping back to the lineup, and we all know how easily injuries can crop up. There are still three defensemen scheduled to be UFAs after this season. The cap squeeze looks like it'll be even tighter than expected with the cap possibly going down, Staal bouncing back, and Goligoski emerging, meaning they'll both cost more than expected. I'll make the bet with someone that Scuderi ends up signing for more money and more years than Eaton did, meaning that even if Eaton wasn't signed Scuderi wasn't going to fit into the payroll structure here anyway.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:04 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Scuderi's really only played one more season here over Eaton.

I think you have to look at the Eaton signing in proper context. They signed him on day one of free agency. I still maintain it was a bargain contract. Guys like Finger and Salvador are no better than Eaton but signed larger deals. Also remember that at the time, Orpik was a UFA. Their plan A at that time likely was to sign Hossa and let Orpik go. They couldn't count on Goligoski to be NHL ready at that point. They also signed him knowing that Gill, Scuderi, and Sydor were scheduled to be UFAs after this season and that the cap squeeze likely would be pretty tight.

A lot of things have changed since then. They did end up signing Orpik. Injuries to Gonchar and Whitney opened up playing time for Goligoski who quickly established that he is ready for regular NHL time. They were able to fleece Dallas into giving up Boucher for Sydor. You couldn't have predicted all this when Eaton was signed. It was a gamble that hasn't worked out yet but there's still plenty of time for it to work out. We're still one injury away from him stepping back to the lineup, and we all know how easily injuries can crop up. There are still three defensemen scheduled to be UFAs after this season. The cap squeeze looks like it'll be even tighter than expected with the cap possibly going down, Staal bouncing back, and Goligoski emerging, meaning they'll both cost more than expected. I'll make the bet with someone that Scuderi ends up signing for more money and more years than Eaton did, meaning that even if Eaton wasn't signed Scuderi wasn't going to fit into the payroll structure here anyway.


Fair points about the proper context. I think you are right to suggest that the deal looks perhaps worse now than anyone expected it would, but, I still don't think it was a great deal. For one thing, were the Pens really forced into signing Eaton on Day 1 of Free Agency? I guess there's no way of knowing and anything would be speculating, but, I am willing to speculate that Eaton's phone was not ringing off the hook. If they could have made it one day, some of that context that the Eaton signing should be looked at in would have been gone. I mean, immediately after Orpik was signed, you have to believe the six defensemen would have been projected as:

Orpik - Gonchar
Whitney - Gill/Scuderi
Gill/Scuderi - Letang

Perhaps there is some difference of opinion with respect to the Gill, Scuderi, Eaton trio between Therrien and Shero. I think that's quite possible. Given the fact that Therrien has put A's on both Gill and Scuderi's jerseys this month, I think its pretty clear that barring a shocking camp, Eaton would have been the 7th guy ahead of Sydor if there were no injuries. But, if they would have even waited for day 2 of free agency, Eaton's deal would have been $2 million for the projected 7th defenseman. Whether he is worth the $2 million or not, this team, with its cap issues, simply won't be able to afford paying such a salary to a seventh dman. Even if the plan was for him to become the sixth next season and let Scuderi go.

With the injuries, it at first looked like a good decision to have that kind of depth on the team. Maybe management knew about Whitney's injury and that played a part in the decision too. Even so, that doesn't change what has been the case thus far this year -- Eaton has not played like a $2 million defenseman. I suppose its arguable that Eaton is "as good as" Finger, Salvador, etc. I personally would not say that Eaton's contract was a bargain. I would say it was fair value for a full or nearly full season of the way Eaton played for some stretches of his two years in Pittsburgh. Eaton's played well below that level this season. I would say there's still a reasonable chance Eaton could raise the level of his game given how much time he missed last season, but, I just don't see how it can be denied that Eaton has not played anywhere near the level he did in previous seasons. That's not really on Shero, though, its tough to predict how a guy is going to bounce back from injury. Still, I think it was not at all a "necessary" signing, and, with the question marks due to injury, I think its proven to be a stretch so far.

So, I agree and disagree. I think there's a lot of good points you make, but, at the same time, I don't feel like the GM should be protected by context all the time when it involved some degree of speculation -- Hossa would sign, Orpik would leave, Goligoski would need another AHL season, Eaton would return to form.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:14 pm

GMs have to be somewhat aggressive. Let's say Shero doesn't sign Eaton on day one. Let's say Hossa still goes to Detroit. Then let's say that instead of Orpik staying here, he goes somewhere else for more money. Now, even with Gonchar and Whitney, they'd go into the season with six guys they could be confident in being NHL defensemen. Whitney and Gonchar go down and your defense is Letang, Sydor, Goligoski, Gill, and Scuderi plus probably some other scrub they'd have to sign just to fill a spot. They gambled and ended up with an overabundance of D instead of what I just described. It's still an overabundance that will disappear after this season. Eaton's expensive depth right now, but I'm willing to bet he figures into the plan eventually. I can't see them spending that $2 million any better this season so for now it's a non-issue to me.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:17 pm

Admin wrote:
darkstar57 wrote:is it time to starting the whitney whipping yet or should we wait a week or two?

I like Whitney but he's been invisible this season. :P


Whitney is on pace for zero goals, zero assists, and zero pts this season. He sucks.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby superconan on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:19 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Admin wrote:
darkstar57 wrote:is it time to starting the whitney whipping yet or should we wait a week or two?

I like Whitney but he's been invisible this season. :P


Whitney is on pace for zero goals, zero assists, and zero pts this season. He sucks.


Cut him a little slack, I mean sure his numbers are way wat way down, but I don't even remember the last time he was on the ice for a goal against.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby JeffDFD on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:23 pm

Yes, he is even on the year and has taken 0 penalties thus far.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby newarenanow on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:25 pm

JeffDFD wrote:Yes, he is even on the year and has taken 0 penalties thus far.


True. This is good.
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Re: Whitney returns to practice...

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:30 pm

Henry Hank wrote:GMs have to be somewhat aggressive. Let's say Shero doesn't sign Eaton on day one. Let's say Hossa still goes to Detroit. Then let's say that instead of Orpik staying here, he goes somewhere else for more money. Now, even with Gonchar and Whitney, they'd go into the season with six guys they could be confident in being NHL defensemen. Whitney and Gonchar go down and your defense is Letang, Sydor, Goligoski, Gill, and Scuderi plus probably some other scrub they'd have to sign just to fill a spot. They gambled and ended up with an overabundance of D instead of what I just described. It's still an overabundance that will disappear after this season. Eaton's expensive depth right now, but I'm willing to bet he figures into the plan eventually. I can't see them spending that $2 million any better this season so for now it's a non-issue to me.


Sure, in certain situations, a GM has to be aggressive. Who knows, perhaps Eaton had multiple offers on Day 1 and because of the situations with other players, Shero felt he had to make an immediate offer. It is also the job a GM to have a good read on what is going to unfold, though. There's no denying that surprises sometimes come your way. I have to believe that the idea of losing Hossa and signing Orpik was something that Shero had at least considered before it all went down on Day 2. But, maybe he was totally shocked by what happened with Hossa and maybe he envisioned Eaton to be a big part in the lineup. Its too hard to speculate, I guess. From looking at it without having inside knowledge of what the thinking was, I just think that it was an unnecessary deal. I don't think you can fault a GM for not making a move to solidify a team's defense if two of the top three defensemen are lost to injury. To me, if those guys get injured and Eaton wasn't signed, it would be absurd to suggest that Shero should have signed Eaton as insurance in case two of the top four went down to injury. With a cap, teams simply can't do that.

ALSO:

I wouldn't be crazy about a GM using the mindset that, "the money wouldn't be better spent anywhere else" -- sure in isolated situations that makes a questionable deal more acceptable, but, in the aggregate, moves like that will eventually bite you.
Last edited by Kraftster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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