UFAs 2009

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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Noise on Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:49 am

There's also a matter of depth. Datsyuk's first season he playing behind Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Hull, Robitaille, and Larionov. Zetterberg's first season, there wasn't as much depth in front of him, but he was still on a good team regardless.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:58 am

My point is not to compare the players. My point is to say that while everyone lauds Detroit for their continuous excellent drafting, it is their development system, organizational structure, and culture of success which are the primary reasons for these annual budding success stories in Motown.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:00 am

Well its certainly the combination of all of those things, but Minard and Ouellet aren't in the same class as the guys they have developed into effective players.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:10 am

Maybe, maybe not. It's impossible to know... but easy to say when you compare where they are today.

If Pittsburgh wants to stay competitive, they are going to have to develop effective players from guys of lesser stock.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:15 am

I don't think lesser stock is the term you want to use. Detroit gets a lot of talent from the later rounds of the draft, but it's not as if these guys are lesser talents. I don't remember the name of their European scout, but he's the guy that finds all that talent. They've simply got a great eye for talent and good connection to that talent and they make their picks off that. The Wings are a sore spot for this Pens fan, but they really are an amazingly run organization. Of the elite teams pre-lockout, they're really the only one that has remained an elite team. Colorado, Dallas, and New Jersey all kind of fell off gradually. To me, Minard really is lesser stock. The guy didn't even get drafted. Guys that don't get drafted and then have to work their way up through several levels pretty much never amount to anything special. Guys that are drafted in later rounds that become great players aren't all that rare.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby ru10tu10 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:25 am

All this talk of cap space, loooming free agents and what we have to free up in order to get anything of value makes me glad for about the 100th time that Hossa did not re-sign with us. If he did, forget Fleury, forget Orpik, probably forget Staal.

Shero's best free agent move of the off-season was in NOT signing Hossa.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:31 am

ru10tu10 wrote:All this talk of cap space, loooming free agents and what we have to free up in order to get anything of value makes me glad for about the 100th time that Hossa did not re-sign with us. If he did, forget Fleury, forget Orpik, probably forget Staal.

Shero's best free agent move of the off-season was in NOT signing Hossa.


It's definitely for the best that he didn't sign the long-term deal. My anger comes from the fact that Hossa went to Detroit and worked out the one year deal and didn't give the Pens that option. They definitely could have fit him in for a year while retaining their other long term assets. Would you rather have Satan and Fedotenko for one year or Hossa?
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:34 am

Henry Hank wrote:Would you rather have Satan and Fedotenko for one year or Hossa?


1 year of #68 on Sid's wing.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby pcm on Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:37 am

I'm still iffy on pro-rated cap stuff, but if getting a guy at the deadline means we only have to fit in a fraction of his cap hit, that may be the best option for this team going into the playoffs each year, unless we can continue to develop effective players on entry-level deals.

Also, can anyone clarify if being on Long term injury pro-rates that players cap hit? Or am I just imagining all this...
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:00 am

Player acquisition cap hits are pro-rated. LTIR just allows you to go over the cap while the player is injured, but you have to go back under the regular salary cap limit once they're healthy. So the Pens can go $9 million over the cap if Whitney and Gonchar were on LTIR, but once they're back they'd have to go back under the cap, so in practice it really only works if a player isn't going to be back that season.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Noise on Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:13 am

pcm wrote:I'm still iffy on pro-rated cap stuff, but if getting a guy at the deadline means we only have to fit in a fraction of his cap hit, that may be the best option for this team going into the playoffs each year, unless we can continue to develop effective players on entry-level deals.

Also, can anyone clarify if being on Long term injury pro-rates that players cap hit? Or am I just imagining all this...


Eventually you run out of assets that way, and you also need the cap space for it to work. Because if you're at the cap, even though the cap hit is less, you still need someone making the same salary going the other way.

What it does though is if you have 1 million free in cap space for half the season, then you can get someone making 2 million a year for the next half.

The best option is to manage assets well and development from with in.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby ru10tu10 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:52 am

Henry Hank wrote:
ru10tu10 wrote:All this talk of cap space, loooming free agents and what we have to free up in order to get anything of value makes me glad for about the 100th time that Hossa did not re-sign with us. If he did, forget Fleury, forget Orpik, probably forget Staal.

Shero's best free agent move of the off-season was in NOT signing Hossa.


It's definitely for the best that he didn't sign the long-term deal. My anger comes from the fact that Hossa went to Detroit and worked out the one year deal and didn't give the Pens that option. They definitely could have fit him in for a year while retaining their other long term assets. Would you rather have Satan and Fedotenko for one year or Hossa?


Well, since you put it that way, Hossa for 1 year... :D
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