UFAs 2009

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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:32 pm

Kicksave wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
midd wrote:Scuderi is a must sign because he can be done at a cheap price. He won't be a huge hit against the cap. Zigomanis is a key player who needs to be re-signed. Consistent face-off winners are not a dime a dozen and his wins have led to key goals for the Pens thus far.


Define cheap. He can get 2 million easily if he wants it. The Pens already have Eaton signed at that value.


You know..cheap. Like...$50 ... or something.


In that case, he's a must sign.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby bhaw on Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:10 pm

midd wrote:Scuderi is a must sign because he can be done at a cheap price. He won't be a huge hit against the cap. Zigomanis is a key player who needs to be re-signed. Consistent face-off winners are not a dime a dozen and his wins have led to key goals for the Pens thus far.



Yeah, those guys never get waived by teams like the Coyotes... ???
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby icecats30 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:39 pm

bhaw wrote:
midd wrote:Scuderi is a must sign because he can be done at a cheap price. He won't be a huge hit against the cap. Zigomanis is a key player who needs to be re-signed. Consistent face-off winners are not a dime a dozen and his wins have led to key goals for the Pens thus far.



Yeah, those guys never get waived by teams like the Coyotes... ???


he wasnt waived he was traded for future considerations
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Noise on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:00 am

Pens4Life wrote:I agree,Scuderi and Ziggy should be re-signed for sure.. if our team looks like this next year i would be fine with it ;

Kennedy - Crosby - Satan
Talbot - Malkin - Sykora
Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Caputi - Zigomanis - Godard
Gonchar - Orpik
Whitney - Letang
Eaton/Scuderi - Goligoski


I bet you Jeffrey cracks the squad next year, and not Caputi.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:32 am

Noise wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:I agree,Scuderi and Ziggy should be re-signed for sure.. if our team looks like this next year i would be fine with it ;

Kennedy - Crosby - Satan
Talbot - Malkin - Sykora
Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Caputi - Zigomanis - Godard
Gonchar - Orpik
Whitney - Letang
Eaton/Scuderi - Goligoski


I bet you Jeffrey cracks the squad next year, and not Caputi.


I concur. Caputi and Veilleux may take another few years
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:37 am

Letang Is The Truth wrote:
Noise wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:I agree,Scuderi and Ziggy should be re-signed for sure.. if our team looks like this next year i would be fine with it ;

Kennedy - Crosby - Satan
Talbot - Malkin - Sykora
Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Caputi - Zigomanis - Godard
Gonchar - Orpik
Whitney - Letang
Eaton/Scuderi - Goligoski


I bet you Jeffrey cracks the squad next year, and not Caputi.


I concur. Caputi and Veilleux may take another few years


Caputi may take a few, Veilleux isn't even close enough to gauge yet. Jeffery will get there first because he projects as a 3rd or 4th line center. They're gonna want Caputi playing wing on one of the top 2 lines so he's gonna have to develop some scoring ability at WBS first.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Jim on Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:10 am

Why So Serious? wrote:
Noise wrote:Michel Ouellet- knows the system, would be super cheap



I'll pass on that one.


Is there any stronger way to say "no" than saying "no"?
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby netwolf on Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:07 am

I'm sure the organization hopes Caputi pans out as a top 6 guy, but I don't see how that precludes him from working his way up through the lineup. Therrien tends ease younger players into the lineup; he makes them earn their ice time. I don't expect Caputi to be logging top 6 minutes from the get go whenever he does gets his shot.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:10 am

netwolf wrote:I'm sure the organization hopes Caputi pans out as a top 6 guy, but I don't see how that precludes him from working his way up through the lineup. Therrien tends ease younger players into the lineup; he makes them earn their ice time. I don't expect Caputi to be logging top 6 minutes from the get go whenever he does gets his shot.


He'll start on the 3rd, but I don't see him ever playing on the 4th line. If hes only gonna be getting a few minutes a game they'll keep him in WBS to develop. They should have no qualms about throwing Jeffrey in as the 4th line center as his ceiling is pretty much 3rd line center.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Nizzy on Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:35 am

Noise wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:I agree,Scuderi and Ziggy should be re-signed for sure.. if our team looks like this next year i would be fine with it ;

Kennedy - Crosby - Satan
Talbot - Malkin - Sykora
Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Caputi - Zigomanis - Godard
Gonchar - Orpik
Whitney - Letang
Eaton/Scuderi - Goligoski


I bet you Jeffrey cracks the squad next year, and not Caputi.



Heh, I looked at that for a few seconds and was like where the heck is Kennedy? Didn't see him up there on line 1.

If we sign Staal + Goligoski + Sykora, it is going to make it very difficult to give Satan anything close to 3.5 Mill again.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Pitts on Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:59 am

icecats30 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
midd wrote:Scuderi is a must sign because he can be done at a cheap price. He won't be a huge hit against the cap. Zigomanis is a key player who needs to be re-signed. Consistent face-off winners are not a dime a dozen and his wins have led to key goals for the Pens thus far.



Yeah, those guys never get waived by teams like the Coyotes... ???


he wasnt waived he was traded for future considerations

He was waived and passed through. The Pens traded for him a week later for "futures" to avoid the $20,000 waiver fee.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08329/930275-61.stm
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Stoosh on Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:40 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
midd wrote:Scuderi is a must sign because he can be done at a cheap price. He won't be a huge hit against the cap. Zigomanis is a key player who needs to be re-signed. Consistent face-off winners are not a dime a dozen and his wins have led to key goals for the Pens thus far.


Define cheap. He can get 2 million easily if he wants it. The Pens already have Eaton signed at that value.


Gonch, Whitney, Letang, Orpik and Eaton are already under contract for next year. Goligoski is a restricted free agent who should get a modest raise over his existing $980K. That's six defensemen already under contract for next year playing at this level.

Boucher, Gill and Scuds are UFAs. Within the context of those three, Scuderi makes the most sense to bring back. Gill and Boucher are both making more than $2M this year. They can double Scuds's salary and he still won't be making that much.

This, though, begs the question...assuming Scuderi comes back next year for about $1.5M, it'll be between Scuds and Eaton for the 6/7 spot. Do you want your 7th defenseman making $1.5-2.0M sitting in the press box?
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:13 pm

As things stand, there's absolutely no way they can bring back any of the UFA defensemen, especially if the rumors of the cap dropping to $55 million next year are true. A lot of people don't seem to realize how dire the Pens' cap situation is. After they get Staal and Goligoski and Talbot signed to new deals, they're practically going to have nothing to work with. They'll have something like $4 or $5 million under the cap, and they'd have to replace Satan, Sykora, and Fedotenko before anyone. They're likely going to have to move Gonchar or Whitney or Goligoski. They won't have the luxury of carrying a seventh defenseman that makes several million. They probably won't even be able to carry seven D, so the depth at WBS will be key. Scuderi's not going to be cheap anyway. Especially if the Pens have another long playoff runs, there will be no shortage of teams that will want to overpay him. He's the #6 defenseman at best next year and they already have Eaton on the books for $2 million for that role.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Kraftster on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:34 pm

Stoosh wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
midd wrote:Scuderi is a must sign because he can be done at a cheap price. He won't be a huge hit against the cap. Zigomanis is a key player who needs to be re-signed. Consistent face-off winners are not a dime a dozen and his wins have led to key goals for the Pens thus far.


Define cheap. He can get 2 million easily if he wants it. The Pens already have Eaton signed at that value.


Gonch, Whitney, Letang, Orpik and Eaton are already under contract for next year. Goligoski is a restricted free agent who should get a modest raise over his existing $980K. That's six defensemen already under contract for next year playing at this level.

Boucher, Gill and Scuds are UFAs. Within the context of those three, Scuderi makes the most sense to bring back. Gill and Boucher are both making more than $2M this year. They can double Scuds's salary and he still won't be making that much.

This, though, begs the question...assuming Scuderi comes back next year for about $1.5M, it'll be between Scuds and Eaton for the 6/7 spot. Do you want your 7th defenseman making $1.5-2.0M sitting in the press box?


Do you really think he'll be looking for only a modest raise? Looking at some of the deals that RFA Dmen are signing, I can't see anyway he signs for less than $2.25 million, and, I think there's a good chance he's closer to $3 than that. Look at the deals that guys like Alexander Edler, Brent Seabrook, Matt Greene, Trevor Daley, and a couple others that are escaping me have signed recently. I just don't see how its going to happen given the fact that he'll probably be coming off of a 20-25 point (in 60 games) season.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:38 pm

Goligoski won't be getting just a modest raise, most likely, and that's part of what throws a wrinkle into the cap for next year. The longer he stays up and the more points he puts up, the higher his price tag will be. Young, offensively gifted defensemen get paid. We saw last summer that not so young, not so great offensively talented guys get paid (Hainsey and Rozsival). It would be in the best interest of the Pens to lock him up long-term this summer because his price will only go up after that. That, of course, means taking on a greater cap hit now to get a better bargain later like they did with Whitney. I see Goligoski signing somewhere in the $2-3 million range depending on how long he stays in the NHL this season and how many years the deal covers.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Kraftster on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:49 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Goligoski won't be getting just a modest raise, most likely, and that's part of what throws a wrinkle into the cap for next year. The longer he stays up and the more points he puts up, the higher his price tag will be. Young, offensively gifted defensemen get paid. We saw last summer that not so young, not so great offensively talented guys get paid (Hainsey and Rozsival). It would be in the best interest of the Pens to lock him up long-term this summer because his price will only go up after that. That, of course, means taking on a greater cap hit now to get a better bargain later like they did with Whitney. I see Goligoski signing somewhere in the $2-3 million range depending on how long he stays in the NHL this season and how many years the deal covers.


That sounds right to me. The biggest factor in these deals seem to be the length of the contracts, and, for the most part, they've all been pretty close to what would be expected. There are some exceptions, like the Carter deal, where for the cap hit you'd think the team could get more years, but, its just the way of the league. I'd expect something like $10-12 over 4-5 years to be a decent balance between the two.

I agree that along with the news of the cap either stagnating or dropping, the biggest wrinkle in the plans is this second Goligoski contract. Without these injuries one would have been safe predicting a "modest raise" for Goligoski over a shorter term. Now, that's just not going to happen. I think watching what unfolds on D contracts will be one of the most interesting storylines to watch with this team into next year.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby joopen on Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:25 pm

Someone else already mentioned it, and it stinks, but Gonchar will possibly be moved (I would even say probably). Its the only way to free up a significant chunk of change for the cap. Moving Whitney makes no sense cause he is locked up for less then Gonchar and for a longer period of time. I know no one here wants to lose him with how well he's been playing but he is 35 or will be 35 when the deal is done and that is just old for a hockey player. Especially when you have the young talent that the Pens do that need to be locked up.

The key to this move is using it to refill the cupboard. Replacing him with an equally priced winger, while filling one need, puts you in the same $ predicament you were already in.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:32 pm

Allegedly, Gonchar has a no trade clause. If that's true, that might make trading him impossible. I've always been against moving Whitney, but I think it could make sense, and they may also have no other choice unless they want to have all third line quality wingers on the team. You possibly can move Whitney and get a young, cheap winger on the rise to replace one of Satan and Sykora, then you'd also free up enough money to bring one or both of them back. I like Whitney long term, but you've got Orpik locked up and will have Letang and Goligoski locked up, plus there's still some D talent in the pipe line (Sneep, Strait, Grant, etc). Moving Gonchar would be ideal but maybe not possible.

Shero has some challenges, but I fully expect that he'll work it all out and put another great team out there next season. I think his work last summer was masterful. Satan isn't Hossa, but is on pace for a productive season (something like 35 goals, 65 points) at half the price and less than what other teams paid for guys projected to do less. Fedotenko has basically the same production as Malone for $2 million and six years less. Cooke is better than Ruutu at a lower price, Godard is a good enough Laraque replacement at half the price. Zigomanis is slightly more expensive than Hall but significantly better. It may look daunting, but he'll figure it out.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Noise on Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:55 pm

If Whitney gets traded this off-season it could be two-fold in freeing up cap space to sign a roster player and getting the Pens another good roster player who is still on their entry level contract. (Whitney for Filatov perhaps? Maybe not Filatov, but someone with 2 years on an entry-level deal that) While I think he has more value to the Pens than Gonchar, as HH said, Gonchar might not waive his NTC.

Also if I remember correctly, Shero is pretty high on Alex Grant, so after Gonchar is gone, the 3 offensive d-men could be Letang, Goligoski, and Grant. Letang and Goligoski, being on their 4th and 3rd seasons should be pretty solid by then. There is also Carl Sneep, but I don't know how RS feels about him ATM. Bortuzzo, Muzzin, and Strait are more defensive d-men I believe.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:01 pm

Columbus could be a match... they've got Filatov and Voracek. They moved Zherdev to bring in a couple puck-moving D so it seems to be a priority for them, plus Klesla is a UFA after next season. Their willingness to move either of those young wingers might depend on whether or not they get Nash signed to a new deal this summer. I mentioned Anaheim in another thread, maybe Bobby Ryan could be a target since they could lose both Niedermayer and Beauchemin after this season.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Kraftster on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:03 pm

Noise wrote:If Whitney gets traded this off-season it could be two-fold in freeing up cap space to sign a roster player and getting the Pens another good roster player who is still on their entry level contract. (Whitney for Filatov perhaps? Maybe not Filatov, but someone with 2 years on an entry-level deal that) While I think he has more value to the Pens than Gonchar, as HH said, Gonchar might not waive his NTC.

Also if I remember correctly, Shero is pretty high on Alex Grant, so after Gonchar is gone, the 3 offensive d-men could be Letang, Goligoski, and Grant. Letang and Goligoski, being on their 4th and 3rd seasons should be pretty solid by then. There is also Carl Sneep, but I don't know how RS feels about him ATM. Bortuzzo, Muzzin, and Strait are more defensive d-men I believe.


Off the top of my head, a team that might be interested in a Dman like Whitney could be Phoenix. I believe Derek Morris will be a UFA. They may see Yandle, Jovo, and Michalek as enough offense from the back end, but, they do have some youth to spare. If you are looking purely at shedding the salary, they might be an option for a guy like Enver Lisin/Brett MacLean/pick(s).

As far as a Whitney for winger to play top-six deal, I'll have to think about that one.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Noise on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:04 pm

netwolf wrote:I'm sure the organization hopes Caputi pans out as a top 6 guy, but I don't see how that precludes him from working his way up through the lineup. Therrien tends ease younger players into the lineup; he makes them earn their ice time. I don't expect Caputi to be logging top 6 minutes from the get go whenever he does gets his shot.


Oh I totally agree there. Maybe someone who watches a lot of WBS can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, it seems like Jeffrey, while not as talented, is a more mature player who is transitioning to pro quicker than Caputi, so I'd just expect to see him get a shot at making the big club first.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Samsdog on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:05 pm

If there's one area where I think the Penguins can restock from within, it's on defense. That said, I don't feel that it's all that wise a move to dump the Whitney's that could well be the best defenseman in the system in two years. The Penguins can't keep paying 13 million on three defenseman and 5 million on a goalie, to be sure, but I would say that trimming the fat in one area (Gonchar) if at all possible is the best way to go. The team is definitely in serious cap trouble, and on defense and down the middle is where the largest chunks of salary are concentrated.
IMO, second-tier, high-upside signings like Afinogenov aren't horrible moves; realistically, his open market price may not rise above 3 million, and he could easily plug Satan's role. Now I know someones going to tell me he has suffered the last two years, he's in Ruff's doghouse, but if he can be had at a reasonable price, then I see no reason not take him. Speedy guy, potentially very good, and if not then he'd be signed at a price low enough that he won't be totally immovable. Definitely something to look into, as this team can't afford to throw money at UFA's that are really established. I do agree with HenryHank that Afinogenov could be totally horrible and a waste of time, but with his current level of play I find it hard to say that his salary next year will be too much to warrant a gamble. Definitely can see the point of anyone who disagrees though, it is a bit of a stretch.

EDIT: would rather see a trade for a Bobby Ryan or a young guy, don't get me wrong.
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Bob McKenzie on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:08 pm

Maybe the government can bail out the NHL :P

The bottom line is, Fedostinko, Satan, and Gill will not be back. That is $8.5m in savings there. Add in Boucher and you're at $11. We're going to need to give raises to Staal, Talbot, Goligoski, and Zigomanis. We should still have a few mil to play with.

Also, if the cap affects us, it affects everyone else. Other teams may not be driving up salaries (Mr. Hossa and Mr. Gaborik).
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Re: UFAs 2009

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:09 pm

Well, if they don't make a move, a guy like Afinogenov probably is what they'd have to resort to because you're right, he'd likely sign one a cheap, one year deal. Hey, the Pens have had success with it. Sykora signed a cheap, short-term deal and has given them solid production. Satan the same, so far.

I think for me the ideal would be something like Gonchar for a first rounder and then use the cap space in free agency to restock the team. They could probably just bring back Satan and/or Sykora if they could pull that off. I don't know for certain that Gonchar really has a NTC, but if he does, I don't see him waiving it.
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