Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Jesse on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:27 pm

Last night I was watching NHL On The Fly, which was highlighting the Devils 7-whatever trouncing of the Tampa Bay Lighting.

They had Ryan Malone mic’d up, and he was yelling at his teammates on the bench for a lack of communication and board support in the offensive zone, among other things.

Pete Weber was commenting on the makeup of the team and its lack of direction.

He then said something that surprised me. He said Michel Therrien made Ryan Malone a good hockey player. Malone was disciplined by Therrien’s system, and now that he’s out of that element, what’s happening in Tampa is driving him crazy. He gave Therrien huge kudos for reigning youth in to playing a defensive system, and he said those same defensive traits that the Penguins exhibited were lacking in Tampa. After playing for Therrien for two years, Malone is pointing out these deficiencies.

So, I guess my question is, what does everyone think of that comment?

Obviously, everyone knows I am an MT supporter, but what about those of you that are undecided or worse? Is it possible for a coach of make a player better? What if Malone had left after Olzyck? Would he be acting the same way in Tampa? Would he be cognizant of these deficiencies?

It was interesting to hear Malone talk. He was repeating the mantra of the Penguins, but some of the players in Tampa looked as if he was speaking another language.

Let’s also take into account, however, that Tampa is horrible, and the team was doomed from the start.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,643
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:41 pm

While I do criticize things The Genius does from time to time, that is on a micro scale. On the macro scale, you simply cannot argue what he has done. yeah, you can say he has Crosby and Malkin and Fleury, and that's surely true. But his development of the other guys, the role players, is where he earns his bucks. Malone is only one of them. How about Talbot, Whitney, Scuderi, Letang, Goligoski, gee, the list is too long already. He is quite obviously a great coach for a young team.
Mad City Mike
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,787
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:14 am
Location: De Forest, WI

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby icecats30 on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:44 pm

players are just like anyone else.. if your used to doing the same thing everyday for 2 years, and then all of a sudden its taken away, its not going to be easy. or, if your 28 years old, had a mediocre career until your put on a line with an all-star, and then all of a sudden you jump off those coattails for a big pay day, your prob gonna flip sh*t too when you suck again. :)
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby ZelieMike on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:58 pm

That it is Malone saying this, is a huge kudo for MT, I think. MCM makes a good point about his approach. I think the proof in the pudding is this - Malone seeems to be holding onto the discplined play and work ethic he displayed last year rather than drifting back into the "lazy" Malone that I had seen having watched and known him since Bantams. I had believed it was 50/50 coming into this year that Malone would be UFA player, working hard only enough to get his UFA contract.

Kudos to him and MT for getting rid of that perception.

ZM
ZelieMike
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Troy Loney on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:17 pm

I didn't understand what he was doing, or what he was trying to accomplish last year when the team was struggling before they turned it around. But i feel like all those people calling for his head and saying he wasn't the right coach for this team do not feel that way anymore. He's had tremendous success, thats all you can ask for isn't it?
Troy Loney
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,588
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby KG on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:21 pm

I get on MT at times but he is a solid coach. The numbers don't lie. The results are there...

Just get me another scorer and I'm a happy man!
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,979
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby maudineormsby on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:33 pm

I wish I had been able to hear this, because it sounds interesting.

But yes, I do think that coaches can make players better.

A team is supposed to be more than the sum of it's parts. When the pens play poorly we notice that they aren't anything more than a bunch of good players, average players, and fourth liners. When they play well, Max Talbot works on the first line, and Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury looks really really really special. A coach is what makes this happen; not exclusively, but more than anyone else.
maudineormsby
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,706
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:19 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, CA

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby penny lane on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:38 pm

In 05 we saw what a lack of a system, lack of sound coaching did to Sergei Gonchar's game.

NHL coaches are the least valued...sacrifice and / or quickly hire a coach on a whim.
Ray Shero, another measure of his patience and smarts, to give Coach Therrien time to work with the players.
penny lane
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,659
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:29 pm
Location: Have fun, kick butt!

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Jesse on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:46 pm

penny lane wrote:In 05 we saw what a lack of a system, lack of sound coaching did to Sergei Gonchar's game.

NHL coaches are the least valued...sacrifice and / or quickly hire a coach on a whim.
Ray Shero, another measure of his patience and smarts, to give Coach Therrien time to work with the players.


Agreed, Penny. However, there are schools of thought out there that say Shero was being politically correct in extending Therrien. He didn't have a good enough reason to fire him.

I disagree with the validity of that point.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,643
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:47 pm

Jesse wrote:
penny lane wrote:In 05 we saw what a lack of a system, lack of sound coaching did to Sergei Gonchar's game.

NHL coaches are the least valued...sacrifice and / or quickly hire a coach on a whim.
Ray Shero, another measure of his patience and smarts, to give Coach Therrien time to work with the players.


Agreed, Penny. However, there are schools of thought out there that say Shero was being politically correct in extending Therrien. He didn't have a good enough reason to fire him.

I disagree with the validity of that point.


I view the original extension as something of a try-out. MT made it, thereby earning his second, multi-year extension.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby pensfan20 on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:19 pm

I have been on the "dont like MT" bandwagon since his days in Montreal. I do believe that he is a GREAT minor league coach. I believe he can get the most out of 3rd and 4th line players. I belive he is a great defensive style coach. What i do not believe is that he can keep developing the likes of Geno and Sid. Also, he (in the past) has not been a guy to take responsiblity for his own actions or lack of preperation. He has gotten better over time, but has called out players alot publicly and yet doesnt say when he messed up. For me its the little things that bother me. The lack of change on the PP. He needs to address the fact that our PP isnt what it should be. Times when he lets Geno take an important faceoff. When its OT and its 4 on 4 and you have Sid and Geno out there with Scuds and Gill?? Those are the little things that personally drive me nuts. Would i call for his head, no. I just personally dont think he can get us to win the 4 games that count the most.
Hopefully, he can prove me wrong though.
pensfan20
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,040
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:11 am
Location: Johnstown PA

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Jesse on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:28 pm

pensfan20 wrote:I have been on the "dont like MT" bandwagon since his days in Montreal. I do believe that he is a GREAT minor league coach. I believe he can get the most out of 3rd and 4th line players. I belive he is a great defensive style coach. What i do not believe is that he can keep developing the likes of Geno and Sid. Also, he (in the past) has not been a guy to take responsiblity for his own actions or lack of preperation. He has gotten better over time, but has called out players alot publicly and yet doesnt say when he messed up. For me its the little things that bother me. The lack of change on the PP. He needs to address the fact that our PP isnt what it should be. Times when he lets Geno take an important faceoff. When its OT and its 4 on 4 and you have Sid and Geno out there with Scuds and Gill?? Those are the little things that personally drive me nuts. Would i call for his head, no. I just personally dont think he can get us to win the 4 games that count the most.
Hopefully, he can prove me wrong though.


I understand and respect your stance, I just disagree. Also, just a brief note, he changed the entire PP at practice today. Should look totally different on Wednesday.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,643
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby superconan on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:34 pm

Jesse wrote:Also, just a brief note, he changed the entire PP at practice today. Should look totally different on Wednesday.


Any more details on that you can share?
superconan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,489
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby wallflower on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:36 pm

Jesse wrote:Also, just a brief note, he changed the entire PP at practice today. Should look totally different on Wednesday.

Gill & Scuderi on the top unit, yes?

:pop:
wallflower
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,913
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:39 pm

I thought malone hated MT since the days when malone was a healthy scratch for loafing?
KennyTheKangaroo
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,099
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:15 am
Location: Under the Skycoaster

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Jesse on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:54 pm

superconan wrote:
Jesse wrote:Also, just a brief note, he changed the entire PP at practice today. Should look totally different on Wednesday.


Any more details on that you can share?


It was in today's trib. I'll see if I can find the link.
Jesse
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,643
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 am
Location: The Land of Condescending Posters

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:58 pm

wallflower wrote:
Jesse wrote:Also, just a brief note, he changed the entire PP at practice today. Should look totally different on Wednesday.

Gill & Scuderi on the top unit, yes?

:pop:


At least they won't allow as many shorties.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby netwolf on Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:07 pm

Jesse wrote:
superconan wrote:
Jesse wrote:Also, just a brief note, he changed the entire PP at practice today. Should look totally different on Wednesday.


Any more details on that you can share?


It was in today's trib. I'll see if I can find the link.


ESPN Radio reported Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy were in on the power play drills during one of their news breaks.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,378
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:15 pm

ESPN Radio reported Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy were in on the power play drills during one of their news breaks.


If he wants guys that will work hard playing on the PP, he probably couldn't have picked many better options on the team. On that note, I'm impressed with what Kennedy's done this year. A lot of people had him pegged as nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner, but he's been pretty consistently putting up points this year. I've said it before - he's got top six wing potential.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Kraftster on Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:22 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
ESPN Radio reported Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy were in on the power play drills during one of their news breaks.


If he wants guys that will work hard playing on the PP, he probably couldn't have picked many better options on the team. On that note, I'm impressed with what Kennedy's done this year. A lot of people had him pegged as nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner, but he's been pretty consistently putting up points this year. I've said it before - he's got top six wing potential.


As you know, I'm one of those that saw him as on the outside looking in when it came to the top-six. TK is really proving me wrong. He has been just phenomenal this year. The effort will always be there with him, but, what I have been most impressed with is his improved play in his own end, and, most of all, his improved vision. He's getting more creative with the puck and becoming less of a up and down/north-south type player who made "third-liner decisions" with the puck. Given the news on the cap last week, I think its become almost a probability that Kennedy will end up getting consistent top-six minutes at some point in the next two years -- while being dirt cheap. I'm happy to be wrong on this one, TK is growing/improving faster than I could have ever expected.
Kraftster
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,107
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:25 am
Location: Frolik

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:26 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
ESPN Radio reported Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy were in on the power play drills during one of their news breaks.


If he wants guys that will work hard playing on the PP, he probably couldn't have picked many better options on the team. On that note, I'm impressed with what Kennedy's done this year. A lot of people had him pegged as nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner, but he's been pretty consistently putting up points this year. I've said it before - he's got top six wing potential.


I always thought he looked like he could do that, but thought he was a couple years away, or at least a year a way. I still think that, but he continues contributing to the point where its hard to doubt him.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,251
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Noise on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:16 pm

I'm happy to hear that Cooke and Kennedy are on the PP. . . to me what Ryan Malone brings to the table is the biggest thing the Pens are missing (well besides Gonchar and Whitney, but that's very temporary.) Cooke and Kennedy bring that hard work.

In some ways I sort of think both of them should be on the LW in the top 6 to create space for the playmaker and the shooter. Although that'd break up my favorite line, they're my 2 favorite wingers on the team right now.
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:17 pm

Fire MT!
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,251
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby maudineormsby on Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:25 pm

Kennedy-Crosby-Satan

Do it MT!
maudineormsby
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,706
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:19 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, CA

Re: Food for thought - A coaching discussion.

Postby Noise on Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:57 pm

maudineormsby wrote:Kennedy-Crosby-Satan

Do it MT!



Cooke-Malkin-Sykora
Fedotenko-Staal-Talbot
Dupuis-Zigomanis-Godard
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FallenHero96, skullman80 and 23 guests


e-mail