Minard?

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Re: Minard?

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:28 pm

I really just don't think it makes sense to say that someone who could eventually be a top-six player should show that he is a capable fourth line player. Some guys who have the offensive talent to be a top-six forward simply aren't going to thrive in an "energy" role, and I can't see what's so wrong with that. Imagine a guy like Sykora on a fourth/energy line. He wouldn't be a very effective player. At all.

I hate the idea that a guy has to prove himself on an NHL third/fourth line before he gets top-six minutes. Its wrong to suggest that the progression of a player ought to be 4-3-2-1 in the minors and then 4-3-2-1 in the bigs, certain players' skillsets will only be put to good use if they are playing with other talented players and they are allowed to be creative.


I think what they're looking for is the effort. If they were to play Pesonen on a bottom line, they'd want to see him work hard, play the system as instructed, play defense, etc. Therrien demands that from all his players. It's why Sykora and Satan both get demoted from time to time. It's why Dupuis and Talbot get opportunities on the top two lines. Obviously, Pesonen won't put up big offensive numbers without playing with skilled players. But he's not going to get that chance if he isn't willing to play hard all the time in all areas. Pesonen can't control where the coaches play him, but he can control the effort he puts in, and if he puts it in, eventually he'll get his chance in a bigger role. It's all on him.
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Re: Minard?

Postby 71 on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Kicksave wrote:
WWGRD wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:The minors aren't about earning your trip to the big time, they're about evaluating prospects. 16 goals is one thing, but the question is, how did he score those goals?


Well here's 3 of them..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyV40etRFis


Neither 3 really bode well in an argument that he should be brought up before somebody else. He found the open ice and had someone make the perfect pass to him.


Exactly, how often do you see a guy standing between the circles with no one within 10 feet of him? Almost never, and you especially don't see the guy leading the league in goals standing that open 3 times! From what I remember, every skill Minard has is average at best by NHL standards. Pesonen at least has good speed and a strong shot with a quick release. While production is important in the minors the main goal is to assess a prospects skill set and decide whether or not it will be successful at the NHL level. I think the Pens front office gave us some insight into their thinking here, they feel Pesonen may be able to help the Pens but Minard probably is a career AHLer.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Kicksave on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:33 pm

I'm sorry to crush canaan's dreams.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:34 pm

Kicksave wrote:I'm sorry to crush canaan's dreams.


No you're not, don't lie.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Kraftster on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:36 pm

Henry Hank wrote:
I really just don't think it makes sense to say that someone who could eventually be a top-six player should show that he is a capable fourth line player. Some guys who have the offensive talent to be a top-six forward simply aren't going to thrive in an "energy" role, and I can't see what's so wrong with that. Imagine a guy like Sykora on a fourth/energy line. He wouldn't be a very effective player. At all.

I hate the idea that a guy has to prove himself on an NHL third/fourth line before he gets top-six minutes. Its wrong to suggest that the progression of a player ought to be 4-3-2-1 in the minors and then 4-3-2-1 in the bigs, certain players' skillsets will only be put to good use if they are playing with other talented players and they are allowed to be creative.


I think what they're looking for is the effort. If they were to play Pesonen on a bottom line, they'd want to see him work hard, play the system as instructed, play defense, etc. Therrien demands that from all his players. It's why Sykora and Satan both get demoted from time to time. It's why Dupuis and Talbot get opportunities on the top two lines. Obviously, Pesonen won't put up big offensive numbers without playing with skilled players. But he's not going to get that chance if he isn't willing to play hard all the time in all areas. Pesonen can't control where the coaches play him, but he can control the effort he puts in, and if he puts it in, eventually he'll get his chance in a bigger role. It's all on him.


Oh, I certainly agree. If he finds himself on the third or fourth line obviously he's going to have to still bring a solid effort. I just disagree with the thinking that he has to prove himself as an effective third/fourth line player before he "deserves" top line minutes. I guess I think there's a difference between playing with a great deal of effort on those lines and playing an effective "energy line" type of game. If he ends up there, he has to know that the team wants to see quality effort from him. I guess I am just saying that if he gets top-six time and a guy like Talbot or Dupuis gets third/fourth line time as a result, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In an "earn his stripes" sense. It would simply be a recognition by the coaches that Talbot/Dupuis/Kennedy are very effective energy players, where as, Pesonen might not fit that role as well (whether he brings 100% effort or not).
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Re: Minard?

Postby Noise on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:48 pm

JoseCuervo wrote:
Noise wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:The minors aren't about earning your trip to the big time, they're about evaluating prospects. 16 goals is one thing, but the question is, how did he score those goals?


And is he fast enough and strong enough to score those goals in the NHL?


He already has, last year


Add "on a regular basis" to the end of my sentence.

One goal in the NHL doesn't mean you're strong enough and fast enough to be a 20 goal scorer. It just means you scored one goal. Jeff Taffe and Connor James have scored goals too.
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Re: Minard?

Postby JoseCuervo on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:51 pm

Noise wrote:
Add "on a regular basis" to the end of my sentence.

One goal in the NHL doesn't mean you're strong enough and fast enough to be a 20 goal scorer. It just means you scored one goal. Jeff Taffe and Connor James have scored goals too.


Well, if you bring him up for longer periods of time so he can play "on a regular basis," maybe he will.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:02 pm

that is right.. you cant evaluate a player after 3-4 minutes of play on 4th line.. oo okey,he didnt show nothing,he is an AHL-er.. Why then Colby played with Sid? did anybody planned that at that time,surely not... but he did get a chance and did it well,especially the first time.. We all thought we founded great RW for Sid,but then Colby proved that he is only 3rd liner.. Soo Minard should get a decent chance too,you can really know about the player after 30-40 games of quality time.. If Minard was soo bad,he surely wouldnt play like that in AHL. Look how we were wrong about Filewich.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Noise on Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:04 pm

Maybe MT doesn't like Minard in practice?

The guy's got a bunch of games with the Penguins and MT never really gave him ice time.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:04 pm

Pens4Life wrote:that is right.. you cant evaluate a player after 3-4 minutes of play on 4th line.. oo okey,he didnt show nothing,he is an AHL-er.. Why then Colby played with Sid? did anybody planned that at that time,surely not... but he did get a chance and did it well,especially the first time.. We all thought we founded great RW for Sid,but then Colby proved that he is only 3rd liner.. Soo Minard should get a decent chance too,you can really know about the player after 30-40 games of quality time.. If Minard was soo bad,he surely wouldnt play like that in AHL. Look how we were wrong about Filewich.


Colby played with Sid on a team that was in second to last place. This current team is competing for a Cup.
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Re: Minard?

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:53 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:Why does everyone want AHL scrubs to get shots on Sid's LW?? Only bonified NHLers should be within 20 feet of Sid or Geno.


2 words: Andy Hilbert.
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