Pesonen and Minard

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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Mongoose87 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:43 pm

lifetimefan wrote:Peso needs to play on the second line. RS did not sign him, nor does he have the size, to be a grinder. Give him a shot while TK is out and see what he can do. This means more than two shifts with Geno and more than six minutes a game.


TK played the third line.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby meecrofilm on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:03 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
lifetimefan wrote:Peso needs to play on the second line. RS did not sign him, nor does he have the size, to be a grinder. Give him a shot while TK is out and see what he can do. This means more than two shifts with Geno and more than six minutes a game.


TK played the third line.


Tank looked good on the 2nd line anyway, absolutely no reason to put Pesonen there.

Lines will probably look like this once Zigo returns.

Dups-Bing-Satan
Tank-Geno-Sykie
Cooke-Staal-Talbot
Minard-Zigo-Godard

But like I and a few others have said, I would mind seeing Minard getting more Top-9, and occasionally Top-6 play. He looked good last night. Snipers aren't gonna do much on the 4th line.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby WWGRD on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:30 pm

DelPen wrote:Taffe and Thomas would have been a better set of callups for the 4th line.


Thomas has barely produced in WB/S. He was a healthy scratch a few games. What makes you think he's better suited than Minard/Pesonen?
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby brwi on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:02 pm

LeopardLetang wrote:
slipshod wrote:Pesonen will not make it until he embraces the physical side of the NHL game.


like sykora and satan do? he may be more in their mold and is why he needs to be judged if he gets scoring line duty but not as a grinder. imagine sykora on the 4th line. you'd get nothing worthwhile.


Sykora played about a third of last season on the 3rd line because MT didn't like his performance. Satan has done some 3rd and even 4th line duty this season, or been skipped on shifts. It doesn't matter who you are, MT will not play u as top-6 if he doesn't think you're putting out a maximum effort and getting the job done. Why someone like Pesonen would automatically be granted top-6 time is a mystery to me.

Brad
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Noise on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:23 pm

Pesonen and Minard will have to make more contributions than just floating around to get time on the 2nd line.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby WWGRD on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:42 pm

Noise wrote:Pesonen and Minard will have to make more contributions than just floating around to get time on the 2nd line.


You can't just look at goals and points. Minard played a decent game. He had a few scoring chances and led the team with 5 hits (out-hit Orpik and Cooke).
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby shane613 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:24 pm

brwi wrote:
LeopardLetang wrote:
slipshod wrote:Pesonen will not make it until he embraces the physical side of the NHL game.


like sykora and satan do? he may be more in their mold and is why he needs to be judged if he gets scoring line duty but not as a grinder. imagine sykora on the 4th line. you'd get nothing worthwhile.


Sykora played about a third of last season on the 3rd line because MT didn't like his performance. Satan has done some 3rd and even 4th line duty this season, or been skipped on shifts. It doesn't matter who you are, MT will not play u as top-6 if he doesn't think you're putting out a maximum effort and getting the job done. Why someone like Pesonen would automatically be granted top-6 time is a mystery to me.

Brad


and for about a third of last season sykora was ineffective. he was useless playing on the 3rd line. same with satan, playing on the 3rd line at even strength he brought nothing to the table. at the beginning of the season when he was on the 3rd line, most of his goals (i don't want to say all but they might all have been) were scored while on the power play until he was permanently placed on sid's line.

i don't think peso (or minard, altho minard looked good with staal,...he made some good passes and seemed to have pretty good chemistry with that line for his first game on it) will be effective if not on the 1st or 2nd line.

and like mark madden has been saying (wether he's right or not), those 2 can't do any worse than talbot, dupuis, or fedotenko.

TRUF
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Noise on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:56 pm

WWGRD wrote:
Noise wrote:Pesonen and Minard will have to make more contributions than just floating around to get time on the 2nd line.


You can't just look at goals and points. Minard played a decent game. He had a few scoring chances and led the team with 5 hits (out-hit Orpik and Cooke).


I was talking more about Pesonen's recent efforts, and Minard's efforts on occasion.

I watched last night's game, but I was working on stuff at the same time so I didn't get too pay too much attention to the fine details
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby meecrofilm on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:10 pm

Karl_Racki wrote:I was impressed with Minard, but as Noise said 1 goal in 19 NHL games isn't going to be good enough to get significant Ice Time.


To be fair, if pretty much any of the Pens' wingers were limited to about 5-6 minutes a game playing exclusively with 4th liners, they'd probably produce similar results.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby cojac on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:42 pm

For one game, I'd like to see Minard play on Sid's LW. With his production in WB, he should at least get a shot on the top line for a game. It's not like anyone on this team besides Geno has clicked with Sid. If Minard's last name was Dupuis, he'd be on the top line already.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Samsdog on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:44 pm

cojac wrote:For one game, I'd like to see Minard play on Sid's LW. With his production in WB, he should at least get a shot on the top line for a game. It's not like anyone on this team besides Geno has clicked with Sid. If Minard's last name was Dupuis, he'd be on the top line already.


Exactly. I'm all for earning ice time, but give the kid a CHANCE to earn it. Somehow or other, Dupuis jumps from the press-box to the 1st line. Good call, because he had a great game, but I don't think that's going to last-he's just irked that he got the box. But Peso and Minard can't earn ice time if they never hit the ice to show what they can do.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby meecrofilm on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:19 am

Karl_Racki wrote:
meecrofilm wrote:
Karl_Racki wrote:I was impressed with Minard, but as Noise said 1 goal in 19 NHL games isn't going to be good enough to get significant Ice Time.


To be fair, if pretty much any of the Pens' wingers were limited to about 5-6 minutes a game playing exclusively with 4th liners, they'd probably produce similar results.


If Satan, Sykora had 5-6 minutes a game, they would have more then 1 goal in 19 games.. Minard I don't know if he has the NHL Skills to be a huge score here. If he gives you 5-10 goals in 60+ games, you should take it.


I'd give you Satan and Sykora, I guess. I dunno though. No PP time, and you're only out there with Zigo and Godard. Sykora sure doesn't create any offense by himself. For sure I think If you put Dupuis, Talbot, Cooke, probably Fedotenko, and Minard in that situation, they'd all have have pretty similar numbers.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby WWGRD on Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:05 am

Noise wrote:
WWGRD wrote:
Noise wrote:Pesonen and Minard will have to make more contributions than just floating around to get time on the 2nd line.


You can't just look at goals and points. Minard played a decent game. He had a few scoring chances and led the team with 5 hits (out-hit Orpik and Cooke).


I was talking more about Pesonen's recent efforts, and Minard's efforts on occasion.

I watched last night's game, but I was working on stuff at the same time so I didn't get too pay too much attention to the fine details


Oh, alright. I'm sure you didn't notice Pesonen. He's been invisible mostly, even with his little ice time. The best part is as Errey mentioned he isn't "sour" that he is being sent back/forth from the minor leagues. He'll do whatever it takes. I like that attitude.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Noise on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:20 am

I've been trying to watch Pesonen and hoping that he does something noteworthy, I really want the guy to succeed

so when he makes a pass I get excited, when he makes a hit I get excited

but mostly I notice that it seems like he's not quite sure what to do
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:41 am

WE all agree here,just give them freeeeeeaaaakin chance then we can discuss what they can do on NHL level,you cant judge player on a 5min -4th line game.. When Ziggy comes back,i would sit Godard for a couple of games. And play Minard and Peso on top lines,but now that Dupuis and Fedo grabbed their chances pretty good again,there isnt a lot of chance for that. Probably Peso in down in WBS as soon as Ziggy is back.
But lines of :
Minard - Crosby - Satan
Pesonen - Malkin - Sykora
Fedotenko - Staal - Cooke
Dupuis - Ziggy - Talbot
would be nice to try for 2 games at least.. Dupuis/Fedo/Max on 3/4th line can rotate on wings positions
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby LeopardLetang on Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:45 am

Pens4Life wrote:WE all agree here,just give them freeeeeeaaaakin chance then we can discuss what they can do on NHL level,you cant judge player on a 5min -4th line game.. When Ziggy comes back,i would sit Godard for a couple of games. And play Minard and Peso on top lines,but now that Dupuis and Fedo grabbed their chances pretty good again,there isnt a lot of chance for that. Probably Peso in down in WBS as soon as Ziggy is back.
But lines of :
Minard - Crosby - Satan
Pesonen - Malkin - Sykora
Fedotenko - Staal - Cooke
Dupuis - Ziggy - Talbot
would be nice to try for 2 games at least.. Dupuis/Fedo/Max on 3/4th line can rotate on wings positions


as a fan, i'd be interested to see what would happen if they did that for a few games. but the coaches must know better, so i'm not really crying for it to happen
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:13 am

LeopardLetang wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:WE all agree here,just give them freeeeeeaaaakin chance then we can discuss what they can do on NHL level,you cant judge player on a 5min -4th line game.. When Ziggy comes back,i would sit Godard for a couple of games. And play Minard and Peso on top lines,but now that Dupuis and Fedo grabbed their chances pretty good again,there isnt a lot of chance for that. Probably Peso in down in WBS as soon as Ziggy is back.
But lines of :
Minard - Crosby - Satan
Pesonen - Malkin - Sykora
Fedotenko - Staal - Cooke
Dupuis - Ziggy - Talbot
would be nice to try for 2 games at least.. Dupuis/Fedo/Max on 3/4th line can rotate on wings positions


as a fan, i'd be interested to see what would happen if they did that for a few games. but the coaches must know better, so i'm not really crying for it to happen


They've set the precedent with every other player who is on this team. I don't think MT is expecting either Minard or Pesonen to score 10 goals in 4 games on the 4th line. He's looking to make sure they are doing their job correctly, showing they belong while they are out there, and putting in the effort he expects. Nothing will disrupt a scoring line more than a guy who is always out of position or not covering his responsibilities because instead of focusing on scoring goals, the line-mates need to focus on covering for the missed assignments. It's not like just because Pesonen has played some AHL games he automatically knows the Penguins system inside and out and is ready to play with Sidney Crosby.

All the "just GIVE the guy a chance" has the same ring to it... give Pesonen top line minutes when he hasn't shown he deserves them yet. If someone could point out what, in the few games he's played, Pesonen has done to DESERVE top 6 minutes, I'm all ears. He even got a few shifts with Malkin in one of the games, but as most have noted, he didn't do much with it. When you are an AHL call up, you have to impress the coaches that you belong and are hungry to play because there is a line of guys behind you willing to sacrifice almost anything to get their one game in the NHL.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby eastonpensfan on Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:43 am

DelPen wrote:Taffe and Thomas would have been a better set of callups for the 4th line.


Thomas has been awful in WBS. He's been demoted to the 3rd and 4th line at times year. He's been about as effective as Filewich.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby LeopardLetang on Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:21 am

bhaw wrote:They've set the precedent with every other player who is on this team. I don't think MT is expecting either Minard or Pesonen to score 10 goals in 4 games on the 4th line. He's looking to make sure they are doing their job correctly, showing they belong while they are out there, and putting in the effort he expects. Nothing will disrupt a scoring line more than a guy who is always out of position or not covering his responsibilities because instead of focusing on scoring goals, the line-mates need to focus on covering for the missed assignments. It's not like just because Pesonen has played some AHL games he automatically knows the Penguins system inside and out and is ready to play with Sidney Crosby.

All the "just GIVE the guy a chance" has the same ring to it... give Pesonen top line minutes when he hasn't shown he deserves them yet. If someone could point out what, in the few games he's played, Pesonen has done to DESERVE top 6 minutes, I'm all ears. He even got a few shifts with Malkin in one of the games, but as most have noted, he didn't do much with it. When you are an AHL call up, you have to impress the coaches that you belong and are hungry to play because there is a line of guys behind you willing to sacrifice almost anything to get their one game in the NHL.


just because they've set precedent doesn't mean someone wouldn't do well. but regardless, just to be clear, since i don't think i really have been, i haven't once asked for pesonen to be put on a scoring line. would i be interested to see what he would do there? yes. would i be interested to watch their practices? yes. i wonder what he can do with open space and what would happen if he gained confidence. but the coaches HAVE seen what he can do and i completely defer to their decisions because of that. so i'm not in the give the guy a chance camp, though i'd be excited to see it if they did in a game, even if i expect to be let down.

and you likely were just quoting the quote i quoted, but i just wanted to make my feelings clear
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:54 pm

LeopardLetang wrote:and you likely were just quoting the quote i quoted, but i just wanted to make my feelings clear


that.

I was kind of agree with you and disagreeing with the post before it. I was adding on to your original statement I guess :D

Everyone would like Pesonen to work out on the scoring lines, but he obviously hasn't shown he belongs there yet. I also think it's valid to point out that if the coaches believe he doesn't have the system down yet, being on the top 2 lines is the worst place for him to be. You don't want your star players being responsible for covering up for a new guy who isn't in the right places.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby marek on Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:39 pm

With Kennedy out for the next month plus, the best solution baring a trade that i can see is putting Dupuis back down on 3, and giving Pesonen a shot with Sid. Fedotenko is finally starting to play well with Geno and Sykora, and Dupuis is better suited to third line duty than Pesonen.

By playing Pesonen on the third or fourth lines you are essentially weakening the entire line-up by forcing players to roles they arent suited for.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby meecrofilm on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:11 pm

Right now Minard looks a lot more useful and versatile than Pesonen.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Why So Serious? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:15 pm

Minard has played very well. Keep him up. He's not afraid to take the body and he should be good to pot a few for us here and there.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby Noise on Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:44 pm

Minard's working hard and he's familiar with the system.
That'll keep him around a bit longer.
Pesonen needs to work on learning the Pens system better.
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Re: Pesonen and Minard

Postby LeopardLetang on Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:04 am

pesonen fell flat on his face yesterday. hah, at least twice. i got excited when he was out there with minard though. that's interesting. but yeah, minard sure stands out. never knew he'd take the body like he does.
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