speculating on the cap numbers

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby kovyman1127 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:22 pm

How is he becoming MORE valuable each game? If anything...he becomes less valuable. I agree, no matter what he signs for...it will be too much.
kovyman1127
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:45 pm

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby kovyman1127 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:24 pm

And Staal does have 5m potential.


What leads you to this conclusion? His slow hands? His getting muscled off the puck at every oppurtunity? His giveaways in the offensive zone?
kovyman1127
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:45 pm

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:26 pm

kovyman1127 wrote:How is he becoming MORE valuable each game? If anything...he becomes less valuable. I agree, no matter what he signs for...it will be too much.


He keeps producing. Production = value... unless you are aware of some hockey secret where scoring goals is actually detrimental to a team's success.

I'd like to hear your analysis on how exactly he is becoming less valuable. You must have an argument to back up your statement that he sucks, no?
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,243
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Why So Serious? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:31 pm

Don't waste you time bhaw. It's pointless to argue with this guy. He has nothing to backup what he says about Staal. And he is just another one of those Pens fans that will never be satisfied with what they get because they expect all 20 year olds to be like Malkin and Crosby. I can't wait til Staal nets 30-35 goals and then come back and hear what kovyman has to say. You never know, he may start whining about how 60% of his goals were redirections in front of the net or how Malkin and Crosby made him look good on another 25% of his goals.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Why So Serious? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:33 pm

As far as I'm concerned, Jordan Staal is a 20 year old with a 29 goal season already under his belt. And has 9 goals and 14 points through 26 games, while being payed at the league minimum.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:34 pm

kovyman1127 wrote:
And Staal does have 5m potential.


What leads you to this conclusion? His slow hands? His getting muscled off the puck at every oppurtunity? His giveaways in the offensive zone?



Value of Jordan Staal is going up... Value of your comments is down.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,243
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Why So Serious? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:34 pm

bhaw wrote:
kovyman1127 wrote:
And Staal does have 5m potential.


What leads you to this conclusion? His slow hands? His getting muscled off the puck at every oppurtunity? His giveaways in the offensive zone?



Value of Jordan Staal is going up... Value of your comments is down.


I don't think there ever was value in his comments to begin with.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:36 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:Don't waste you time bhaw. It's pointless to argue with this guy. He has nothing to backup what he says about Staal. And he is just another one of those Pens fans that will never be satisfied with what they get because they expect all 20 year olds to be like Malkin and Crosby. I can't wait til Staal nets 30-35 goals and then come back and hear what kovyman has to say. You never know, he may start whining about how 60% of his goals were redirections in front of the net or how Malkin and Crosby made him look good on another 25% of his goals.


he would probably disappear much like the few that were saying Malkin will amount to nothing. A few notable outspoken posters have disappeared in the last 2 years once they get proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. Much like the Therrien haters have slowly faded into oblivion.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,243
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Why So Serious? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:41 pm

bhaw wrote:
Why So Serious? wrote:Don't waste you time bhaw. It's pointless to argue with this guy. He has nothing to backup what he says about Staal. And he is just another one of those Pens fans that will never be satisfied with what they get because they expect all 20 year olds to be like Malkin and Crosby. I can't wait til Staal nets 30-35 goals and then come back and hear what kovyman has to say. You never know, he may start whining about how 60% of his goals were redirections in front of the net or how Malkin and Crosby made him look good on another 25% of his goals.


he would probably disappear much like the few that were saying Malkin will amount to nothing. A few notable outspoken posters have disappeared in the last 2 years once they get proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. Much like the Therrien haters have slowly faded into oblivion.


Yes, you're right. But it just makes you wonder with what mindset people watch some of these games. I realize this guy hates Staal, but even to the extent to say that he sucked when he gets 1G, 1A? Does he realistically expect 5 points out of Jordan every game? I just don't understand.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Corvidae on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:53 pm

Jordan Staal is on pace for 25 goals and 41 points. That's good, but not 5 million good. As of right now I don't know how anyone could justify more than $3.5-$4.0 million, tops.

As a frequent member of the Staal bashing club (not the facebook group), I at least try to be fair. He is improving as the year goes along. I loved him in front of the net on the PP, and if he can do that on a regular basis, plus maybe jump on the wing from time to time, I'll be very happy with that. Staal has $5 million potential, but I don't believe salary based on potential is very smart.
Corvidae
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,111
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:47 am

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:23 pm

Staal has potential to make 5 mills per year,but not for now,that just aint logical. I think that Shero also said that short-term contract is possible,soo as I said before 2 years/3 mills per season would be just fine for now. I dont think that good defensive 40 pts forwards are getting paid as top wingers!?!
Pens4Life
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,566
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:02 pm
Location: Slovenia

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby tjand72 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:45 pm

The first FA contracts awarded after this year will determine the salaries that these players receive. If one of the first teams to deal decides to give a Finger-like or Malone-like contract, then next year's free agents will have something to use as a baseline and prices will remain high. If the cap doesn't rise and the GMs are smart, then they'll actually pay market value for FAs.

So that means that Hossa won't get his 8 mil/per that he may have wanted, but instead goes for 7 mil/per longterm, which is less than he's making now. Teams will realize that they can't afford such high numbers, and then the real negotiations will start.

All hypothetical, of course.
tjand72
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,861
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: 9674 Jeopardy Lane

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby John-E on Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:47 pm

Imagine the teams cap situation if Hossa had signed with the Pens.
John-E
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:32 pm

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby CKA24 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:04 pm

Has anyone officially confirmed that the cap is decreasing?
CKA24
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,703
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Harrison City, Pa

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:05 pm

CKA24 wrote:Has anyone officially confirmed that the cap is decreasing?


It's still too early in the season to confirm anything, I believe.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,243
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby wallflower on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:14 pm

I don't know why people keep saying so matter of factly that Staal is asking for a huge contract. The only people throwing figures around have been fans; neither Staal or Shero have even so much as hinted toward an actual amount.

/pet peeve
wallflower
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,913
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:19 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Why So Serious? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:17 pm

wallflower wrote:I don't know why people keep saying so matter of factly that Staal is asking for a huge contract. The only people throwing figures around have been fans; neither Staal or Shero have even so much as hinted toward an actual amount.

/pet peeve


Honestly. Remember how people automatically assumed Malkin was greedy and would demand cap max? We, as fans, will worry about Staal's contract when it actually comes.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:19 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
wallflower wrote:I don't know why people keep saying so matter of factly that Staal is asking for a huge contract. The only people throwing figures around have been fans; neither Staal or Shero have even so much as hinted toward an actual amount.

/pet peeve


Honestly. Remember how people automatically assumed Malkin was greedy and would demand cap max? We, as fans, will worry about Staal's contract when it actually comes.


Very true. Everything involving his contract are rumors. The numbers I stated were based on my own opinion :D Everyone did assume Malkin would be a greedy Russian that would hold the Pens hostage by demanding the cap max since he was so upset being the 1b guy. Oops :lol:
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,243
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby purelebo84 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:26 pm

I think Sarge or Whitney (preferably Sarge) is going to have to be moved in the offseason.

It's the only possible way to keep Staal AND get a scoring winger here.
purelebo84
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,949
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: The 412

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby bhaw on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:37 pm

purelebo84 wrote:I think Sarge or Whitney (preferably Sarge) is going to have to be moved in the offseason.

It's the only possible way to keep Staal AND get a scoring winger here.


I agree, but it will be tough...

You don't want to get rid of Whitney b/c he is a guy you are counting on for the future.

Gonchar will just be returning from a tough injury. It's VERY possible he isn't 100% by the playoffs and doesn't show his best form, reducing what he SHOULD fetch. People have also said he has a NTC, but I have not seen any confirmation of it.

The team, like many others out there, is going to suffer somewhere. It's a fact of life when there is a salary cap. You can't have the best everything.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,243
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby Noise on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:43 pm

I believe Gonchar does have an NTC

and as far as trading Whitney goes
yes he's someone you want for the future
but at some point
you gotta break some eggs
letting Malone go
trading Whitney
whatever
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:35 am

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby tjand72 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:45 pm

Malone is nothing in the grand scope of things for the Pens.
tjand72
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,861
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: 9674 Jeopardy Lane

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby wallflower on Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:04 pm

tjand72 wrote:Malone is nothing in the grand scope of things for the Pens.

I like Malone, but agree completely. He's a player that would be nice to have but isn't a necessity by any means.
wallflower
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,913
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:19 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby purelebo84 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:36 pm

I've concocted next year's lineup. Trade Gonchar, and do something with Dupuis and Eaton.

This is what I got...

Talbot (1.1)-Crosby (8.7)-Cammalleri (5.1)
Axelsson (2.5)-Malkin (8.7)-Sykora (2.2)
Cooke (1.2)-Staal (4.3)-Kennedy (0.7)
Minard (0.6)-Zigomanis (1.1)-Godard (0.7)

Orpik (3.8)-Letang (0.6)
Whitney (3.5)-Goligoski (1.4)
Scuderi (1.1)-Richmond (0.6)

Fleury (5.0)
Curry (0.6)

TOTAL: $53,500,000 (obviously give or take a little bit)
purelebo84
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,949
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:22 pm
Location: The 412

Re: speculating on the cap numbers

Postby NJ5934 on Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:38 pm

John-E wrote:Imagine the teams cap situation if Hossa had signed with the Pens.


Well, honestly Hossa was rumored to have been offered 7 million. Satan and Fedotenko are 6. Obviously neither would have been signed had Hossa stayed. It would have been tighter no doubt, but not that much.

I wouldn't worry about the cap that much because everyone is in the same boat and other teams are worse off than we are in terms of long term contracts.

As for Staal. I read a couple weeks back a comment by Shero that he asked Staal's agent for his clients intentions by March. Shero is no dummy, if Staal isn't signed to an extension he will be traded. Staal has value and Shero has to know he would get a "catch match" offer this summer.
NJ5934
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,861
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:33 pm
Location: Toms River, NJ

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beveridge, scals37, ShaPe and 25 guests


e-mail