Free Agency Revisited

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Free Agency Revisited

Postby Pens15 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:01 pm

This thread is not intended to to bash Shero since hindsight is 20/20, and of course none of us really know what went down on the phones and who we really could have signed. But now that the season is almost a third of the way done, what do you think of the guys Shero grabbed, and what other guys would you rather have gotten?

I think Eaton was a mistake, at least at the price.

I'm not a fan of Satan at all. I would have rather got somebody else, even on a 2 year deal. The name that comes to mind is Naslund, even though he apparently preferred New York over Pittsburgh.

With Fedotenko, at the time I was a strong advocate of bringing in Bertuzzi as Malone's replacement, and nothing he has done in Calgary has changed my mind. With him I'm pretty sure he could have been ours if we wanted him.

So what other names that you guys wanted are doing well with the teams they ended up on?

Like I said not a Shero bash thread but I think he could have done better.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby DocEmrick on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:03 pm

Hossa.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby wallflower on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:05 pm

Considering that the team hadn't really hit its stride as a whole at this point last year, I'm hesitant to make any real evaluations yet. But that's just me; though I am interested in seeing what others think.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Maagwa on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:12 pm

A really good GM would have signed a winger for Sid that isn't a 3rd Liner Or a one a upon a season 30 goal scorer that struggles to score 15 a season. Truth. I don't mean to bash Shero because I mean..... he got Hossa but...
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby wallflower on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:14 pm

Maagwa wrote:A really good GM would have signed a winger for Sid that isn't a 3rd Liner Or a one a upon a season 30 goal scorer that struggles to score 15 a season. Truth. I don't mean to bash Shero because I mean..... he got Hossa but...

Okay, but who? And for how much?
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby DocEmrick on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:15 pm

I also think, Hossa aside, this years free agency market was rather weak, in the sense that there were some veterans available, but they were a year older (a'la Naslund). Some unreliable talent too like Vrbata, and other injury plagued players. Satan and Feds, I didn't even know were free agents, so that shows you how much they have been in the spotlight for the past couple of years. Guys like Bertuzzi, again, good fit for the Pens? Maybe, but you can never be sure. Hossa was the big "to-do" this off-season, and unfortunately...he screwed us over. That's the risk you take though.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby pens_CT on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:17 pm

wallflower wrote:
Maagwa wrote:A really good GM would have signed a winger for Sid that isn't a 3rd Liner Or a one a upon a season 30 goal scorer that struggles to score 15 a season. Truth. I don't mean to bash Shero because I mean..... he got Hossa but...

Okay, but who? And for how much?
C'mon he means the first line winger that dreams at night of playing with Sid and winning a cup, and will come to the pens at a bargain rate. :roll:
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Defence21 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:18 pm

Maagwa wrote:A really good GM would have signed a winger for Sid that isn't a 3rd Liner Or a one a upon a season 30 goal scorer that struggles to score 15 a season. Truth. I don't mean to bash Shero because I mean..... he got Hossa but...

Yeah, a really good GM can say "screw the cap" and sign whoever he wants at whatever price he wants!

Clearly, Shero is subpar at best.

:roll:
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Steve on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:21 pm

I think it's a pretty big assumption to make, assuming that Shero could just sign any free agent that he wanted. The player in question just might have other ideas. (i.e. Bertuzzi, Naslund).

Sometimes the best moves are the one's that aren't made - just look at other teams trying to dump players with bad contracts right now.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby DelPen on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:22 pm

The only move that has ended up as being flat out bad even in hindsight was Ekman but it was not a bad move at the time when you look at the season he had prior. He got a lot of quality depth for giving up absolutely nothing as well. When you look at all the movement in trades, the best player we ever gave up was Christensen? That is solid trading.

I'm not upset with Satan and Fedotenko, they were one-year deals and we are fine with cap space. If he signed them long term they would have been less. Them signing here did not prevent a single other move.

I think the fact we retained Orpik was huge. I think everyone wrote him off as wanting too much but shero made it work. If Malone had agreed to $3.5 a year long term he migth have been kept too but he's getting his contract in TB with no state income tax, good for him.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:23 pm

Bertuzzi is just bad karma...I would never want him on my team just because of the stigma that goes along with employing him. It might not be fair to blackball the guy for the rest of his life, but he screwed up big and I haven't seen any true signs of remorse. No thanks.

I think the problem with this offseason was that Shero entered the game too late because he was waiting on Hossa. By the time he found out Hossa wasn't coming back, a lot of the other FA's had been courted by several teams already and were nearing decisions. I can't bash the guy because I think given the circumstances he did the best job he could have. I think he knew he had dropped the ball and waited too long to enter onto the bidding scene, that's why he only signed Satan and Fedotenko to one year deals. He figured he had to do his best to fill out the roster this year then get into the game the right way this year. So yeah he kind of dropped the ball but I don't think it was all his fault and he moved fast and thought quick to make up for it. We'll see what happens this year when he has all the negotiations done before free agency opens. I hope.

EDIT: and retaining Orpik = redemption for whatever else went on
Last edited by Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby CathUZ on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:23 pm

I think that Shero is poised pick up some quality wingers next off season. With the cap going down and some teams struggling, the proportion of teams willing to overpay for quality wingers is going to go down.

With the situation he did a very good job, didn't overpay for anyone and didn't tie his hands. I really can't say anyone isn't living up to their salary and/or contract.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Pens15 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:24 pm

Steve wrote:I think it's a pretty big assumption to make, assuming that Shero could just sign any free agent that he wanted. The player in question just might have other ideas. (i.e. Bertuzzi, Naslund).

Sometimes the best moves are the one's that aren't made - just look at other teams trying to dump players with bad contracts right now.


Of course it's an assumption, and I mentioned that in the original post. But there's no harm for the purposes of this thread to speculate on guys that we could have had in theory, that might have been better choices than what we got. Or maybe some people don't see better choices and are happy with what we have?
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby DelPen on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:24 pm

Samsdog wrote:Bertuzzi is just bad karma...I would never want him on my team just because of the stigma that goes along with employing him. It might not be fair to blackball the guy for the rest of his life, but he screwed up big and I haven't seen any true signs of remorse. No thanks.

I think the problem with this offseason was the Shero entered the game too late because he was waiting on Hossa. By the time he found out Hossa wasn't coming back, a lot of the other FA's had been courted by several teams already and were nearing decisions. I can't bash the guy because I think given the circumstances he did the best job he could have. I think he knew he had dropped the ball and waited too long to enter onto the bidding scene, that's why he only signed Satan and Fedotenko to one year deals. He figured he had to do his best to fill out the roster this year then get into the game the right way this year. So yeah he kind of dropped the ball but I don't think it was all his fault and he moved fast and thought quick to make up for it. We'll see what happens this year when he has all the negotiations done before free agency opens. I hope.


Again, who was better for the same contract as Satan and Fedotenko?
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:26 pm

DelPen wrote:
Samsdog wrote:Bertuzzi is just bad karma...I would never want him on my team just because of the stigma that goes along with employing him. It might not be fair to blackball the guy for the rest of his life, but he screwed up big and I haven't seen any true signs of remorse. No thanks.

I think the problem with this offseason was the Shero entered the game too late because he was waiting on Hossa. By the time he found out Hossa wasn't coming back, a lot of the other FA's had been courted by several teams already and were nearing decisions. I can't bash the guy because I think given the circumstances he did the best job he could have. I think he knew he had dropped the ball and waited too long to enter onto the bidding scene, that's why he only signed Satan and Fedotenko to one year deals. He figured he had to do his best to fill out the roster this year then get into the game the right way this year. So yeah he kind of dropped the ball but I don't think it was all his fault and he moved fast and thought quick to make up for it. We'll see what happens this year when he has all the negotiations done before free agency opens. I hope.


Again, who was better for the same contract as Satan and Fedotenko?


I don't recall saying anyone was, in fact I think I said he did as good a job as he could have done filling out the roster after he put his cards on the table a little later than most.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby SoupOrSam on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

I don't know. Someone find me Kevin Steven's phone number. I think he can play with Sid even at his age. BAM! Just think. Dallas Pittsburgh in the cup finals. Stevens would probably be the first player to actually be found guilty of an on ice incident involving the TURTLE. Stevens for president.
Last edited by SoupOrSam on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Pens15 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion on the Bertuzzi incident, but I've always been of the opinion that he takes too much heat for what happened. Sure, what he did was dirty but it wasn't something that you don't see lots of times in the NHL. It was just bad luck that the guy got injured so badly, and there's no way he intended to injure the guy like that.

I think he would have been an decent power forward replacement for Malone, better than Fedo for a lesser salary.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Maagwa on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Maagwa wrote:A really good GM would have signed a winger for Sid that isn't a 3rd Liner Or a one a upon a season 30 goal scorer that struggles to score 15 a season. Truth. I don't mean to bash Shero because I mean..... he got Hossa but...

Yeah, a really good GM can say "screw the cap" and sign whoever he wants at whatever price he wants!

Clearly, Shero is subpar at best.

:roll:

Clearly the Wings can Have Zetterberg, Dats, Hossa, Lids, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc..... and Sign Conklin with no cap problems.... and still win the cup
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:28 pm

Satan and Fedotenko are doing basically what they were expected to do. Satan has generally played on the top line and is on pace for 30+ goals. Fedotenko has been a 2nd/3rd liner and is on a 15-20 goal pace. That's in line with what anyone should have realistically expected. Eaton? I see injuries mounting on D to the point that they have to play an AHL guy tonight. Eaton's been playing fine lately.

What's special about Naslund? He and Satan are basically having the same season. Bertuzzi looks like he's an ES liability to me. 2/3 of his points are on the PP and he's a team worst -10.

I thought Shero's offseason was fine then and it's going exactly as expected now. For the money and term he went with on those contracts, they're getting back what was expected from those investments. I'd take Satan and Fedotenko over Naslund and Bertuzzi when you consider all facets of their play and their contract status.
Last edited by Henry Hank on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Penspal on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:29 pm

Well, I don't understand the Satan signing to be frank. Yes, he could score goals years ago, but he's been on a slide.

But here is the problem. He was NEVER a playoff performer. He's NOT shown courage (shot blocking, play through injury, take a hit, give a hit) in the playoffs.

GP__G__A__P +/-
56 15 23 38 -1

And with the focus on winning the Cup, well, he's not the right choice in my opinion.
Last edited by Penspal on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby DelPen on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:30 pm

Samsdog wrote:
DelPen wrote:Again, who was better for the same contract as Satan and Fedotenko?


I don't recall saying anyone was, in fact I think I said he did as good a job as he could have done filling out the roster after he put his cards on the table a little later than most.


But if he didn;t miss out on anyone better for what he signed Satan and Tank to then does it really matter when you thought he got in the game?
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby brwi on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:35 pm

Pens15 wrote:I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion on the Bertuzzi incident, but I've always been of the opinion that he takes too much heat for what happened. Sure, what he did was dirty but it wasn't something that you don't see lots of times in the NHL. It was just bad luck that the guy got injured so badly, and there's no way he intended to injure the guy like that.

I think he would have been an decent power forward replacement for Malone, better than Fedo for a lesser salary.


Bertuzzi is a pretty lazy player who doesn't get involved with backchecking. I don't see him being a fit on the Penguins at all.

As far as not intending to seriously injure Moore, I don't buy that at all. He paid the price for his actions so he's still in the NHL, but I don't think he's better than what the Pens have nor is he worth 2mil/year either.

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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:36 pm

DelPen wrote:
Samsdog wrote:
DelPen wrote:Again, who was better for the same contract as Satan and Fedotenko?


I don't recall saying anyone was, in fact I think I said he did as good a job as he could have done filling out the roster after he put his cards on the table a little later than most.


But if he didn;t miss out on anyone better for what he signed Satan and Tank to then does it really matter when you thought he got in the game?


There weren't better wingers on that pay scale, but without early hesitation Shero may have been able to land a Rolston type forward before he signed. At this point it's splitting hairs trying to decide who is better since you have to factor in bang for the buck etc. but I think there were more skilled forwards that Shero was after. I somehow doubt that Satan was the guy who was the most prominent winger on Shero's radar, so no I don't think he landed the fish he wanted.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby beerman on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:41 pm

I think RS did a pretty good job once the cards fell with Hossa the way they did. He did a good job at getting Brooks signed longterm at below what he could've gotten elsewhere and gave the team good depth. People here can be upset with the way Eaton has played but had Whitney not needed his surgery and Gonchar not gotten hurt it would be almost purely a depth signing and Eaton as a 7th/8th guy would have been really solid.

Who knows if RS really could've done better on the wings that getting Satan and Fedo but what I keep in mind is that he didn't handicap the team going forward just by overpaying both in money and years for anyone. He didn't feel the need to throw a ton of cash at some big name just to appease everyone when Hossa jumped ship and only gave out 1 year deals to these guys which leaves him a good bit of flexiblity after this season when the FA pool is deeper than last.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Pens15 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:46 pm

I agree beerman, given that Fedo and Satan are only on one year deals, that alone means Shero didn't screw up, because it's a lot better than getting guys who may be somewhat better but not much, and for more money and more years.

It just kind of sucks because Hossa >>>>>>>>>> Satan obviously and Malone >>>>>>>>>>>> Fedo.

Another thing was Dupuis. It doesn't hurt to have him around by any means, but did we really need another third liner, when his 2 mil could have gone toward someone better over the next three years?
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