Free Agency Revisited

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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby ams on Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:46 pm

Stoosh wrote:I think it's possible to hook this team up with a quality top-line winger. I just think they need to explore the idea of bringing in a younger winger - someone closer in age to the rest of the core. That winger obviously would be less accomplished than someone like Hossa, Kovalchuk or Gaborik, but the chance at developing a potential next-generation Hossa is the tradeoff for fitting someone in on those lines within the cap structure and preserving depth through the roster.


Right on. Satan's not meant to be a long-term option. If the Pens could've gotten on the Boyes train when he might have been available or something like that they'd be in better shape, but that sort of chance doesn't happen every day. Shero will make some moves when he sees the chance, and Satan, if he scores 30 as a stopgap, is just fine in the interim.
ams
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Noise on Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:16 pm

Stoosh wrote:Some thoughts on this winger situation...

2007-08 Playoffs
Sidney Crosby - In 20 games, Sid was 6-21-27, for a points-per-game average of 1.35. That was with Hossa on his wing.
Marian Hossa - 20 games, 12-14-26 for a ppg of 1.30.

2008-09
Sidney Crosby - In 26 games, he has 13-27-40, for a ppg of 1.54. That's been with Satan primarily on his wing. Incidentally...
Miro Satan - In 26 games, he has 10-9-19 for a ppg of 0.73.

It should be noted that...

1. This year, 15 of Crosby's 40 points have come on the powerplay...not as many as I expected to see.
2. There's no way of telling without doing some extensive research how many of Sid's points have come while he's been paired with Malkin.

I just find it interesting that over a relatively similar sample size, Sid's production this year is actually well above his production with Hossa.

Is that indicative of any sort of long-term trend? Absolutely not.

I'm just throwing out the idea that Hossa may not have made all that much a difference. Or if he did, would it have been enough to offset the other sacrifices Shero would've had to make to bring Hossa back? For instance, it's almost certain that Orpik wouldn't have been back if Hossa signed because the money wouldn't have been there. Hossa's deal may have thrown Fleury's long-term deal into jeopardy as well, as well as the signings of guys like Satan and Fedotenko, which would've at least affected depth.

I think it's possible to hook this team up with a quality top-line winger. I just think they need to explore the idea of bringing in a younger winger - someone closer in age to the rest of the core. That winger obviously would be less accomplished than someone like Hossa, Kovalchuk or Gaborik, but the chance at developing a potential next-generation Hossa is the tradeoff for fitting someone in on those lines within the cap structure and preserving depth through the roster.



Filatov, Ryan, Boedker, Voracek, Tikhonov, anyone?
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:21 pm

Noise wrote:
Stoosh wrote:Some thoughts on this winger situation...

2007-08 Playoffs
Sidney Crosby - In 20 games, Sid was 6-21-27, for a points-per-game average of 1.35. That was with Hossa on his wing.
Marian Hossa - 20 games, 12-14-26 for a ppg of 1.30.

2008-09
Sidney Crosby - In 26 games, he has 13-27-40, for a ppg of 1.54. That's been with Satan primarily on his wing. Incidentally...
Miro Satan - In 26 games, he has 10-9-19 for a ppg of 0.73.

It should be noted that...

1. This year, 15 of Crosby's 40 points have come on the powerplay...not as many as I expected to see.
2. There's no way of telling without doing some extensive research how many of Sid's points have come while he's been paired with Malkin.

I just find it interesting that over a relatively similar sample size, Sid's production this year is actually well above his production with Hossa.

Is that indicative of any sort of long-term trend? Absolutely not.

I'm just throwing out the idea that Hossa may not have made all that much a difference. Or if he did, would it have been enough to offset the other sacrifices Shero would've had to make to bring Hossa back? For instance, it's almost certain that Orpik wouldn't have been back if Hossa signed because the money wouldn't have been there. Hossa's deal may have thrown Fleury's long-term deal into jeopardy as well, as well as the signings of guys like Satan and Fedotenko, which would've at least affected depth.

I think it's possible to hook this team up with a quality top-line winger. I just think they need to explore the idea of bringing in a younger winger - someone closer in age to the rest of the core. That winger obviously would be less accomplished than someone like Hossa, Kovalchuk or Gaborik, but the chance at developing a potential next-generation Hossa is the tradeoff for fitting someone in on those lines within the cap structure and preserving depth through the roster.



Filatov, Ryan, Boedker, Voracek, Tikhonov, anyone?


I know a lot of scouts view Nikita Filatov as a maybe, but IMO in 10 years we'll be looking back at this years draft class and picking him out as the most gifted forward in it, Stamkos included. Just my opinion, but even though CLS is very high on him and I don't think he could be pried from there I'd love to see him on the team.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Noise on Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:23 pm

Samsdog wrote:
Noise wrote:
Stoosh wrote:Some thoughts on this winger situation...

2007-08 Playoffs
Sidney Crosby - In 20 games, Sid was 6-21-27, for a points-per-game average of 1.35. That was with Hossa on his wing.
Marian Hossa - 20 games, 12-14-26 for a ppg of 1.30.

2008-09
Sidney Crosby - In 26 games, he has 13-27-40, for a ppg of 1.54. That's been with Satan primarily on his wing. Incidentally...
Miro Satan - In 26 games, he has 10-9-19 for a ppg of 0.73.

It should be noted that...

1. This year, 15 of Crosby's 40 points have come on the powerplay...not as many as I expected to see.
2. There's no way of telling without doing some extensive research how many of Sid's points have come while he's been paired with Malkin.

I just find it interesting that over a relatively similar sample size, Sid's production this year is actually well above his production with Hossa.

Is that indicative of any sort of long-term trend? Absolutely not.

I'm just throwing out the idea that Hossa may not have made all that much a difference. Or if he did, would it have been enough to offset the other sacrifices Shero would've had to make to bring Hossa back? For instance, it's almost certain that Orpik wouldn't have been back if Hossa signed because the money wouldn't have been there. Hossa's deal may have thrown Fleury's long-term deal into jeopardy as well, as well as the signings of guys like Satan and Fedotenko, which would've at least affected depth.

I think it's possible to hook this team up with a quality top-line winger. I just think they need to explore the idea of bringing in a younger winger - someone closer in age to the rest of the core. That winger obviously would be less accomplished than someone like Hossa, Kovalchuk or Gaborik, but the chance at developing a potential next-generation Hossa is the tradeoff for fitting someone in on those lines within the cap structure and preserving depth through the roster.



Filatov, Ryan, Boedker, Voracek, Tikhonov, anyone?


I know a lot of scouts view Nikita Filatov as a maybe, but IMO in 10 years we'll be looking back at this years draft class and picking him out as the most gifted forward in it, Stamkos included. Just my opinion, but even though CLS is very high on him and I don't think he could be pried from there I'd love to see him on the team.


Well they do need an offensive d-man
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:30 pm

Noise wrote:
Samsdog wrote:
Noise wrote:Filatov, Ryan, Boedker, Voracek, Tikhonov, anyone?


I know a lot of scouts view Nikita Filatov as a maybe, but IMO in 10 years we'll be looking back at this years draft class and picking him out as the most gifted forward in it, Stamkos included. Just my opinion, but even though CLS is very high on him and I don't think he could be pried from there I'd love to see him on the team.


Well they do need an offensive d-man


Only problem is he's not going to do it right now, he's going to have to develop and there is a little more risk involved than in most early picks. Still would be good
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby no name on Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:44 pm

Hossa screwed us he made us wait on his word while we could of been making a bigger push to sign other players like Bertuzzi, Naslund, maybe resign Malone or others. If Hossa would of told us from the begining that he wanted to play for Detroit our team would look alot different right now. But since Hossa sat on his hands and waited to give us a decision we were left in the FA dust. The best players left availible were Satan and Fedetanko. Of course thoes guys wanted to play hear and waited like us for Hossa to make up his mind.

So in hind site Shero should of told Hossa this is our best deal and offer we want a decision in 24 hours or else we are going to sign others.

SOrry but hossa screwed us, maybe he wanted to but probly not, he just changed his mind. But no matter how you look at it, he screwed us. 3 possible scenerios.

Hossa signs we are in good shape. Yeahhhhhhh
Hossa tells us he is going else where befor FA starts, we sign Bertuzzi and Naslund.
Hossa waits and waits and waits then signs else where and we are left to sigb feds and Satan Huhhhhh!!!!
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Samsdog on Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:48 pm

I'm sorry, but no good would have come from having Hossa here long-term. There would be no Orpik, difficulty getting MAF's salary in, and a team filled out with minor leaguers. In short, this team would be the Ottawa Senators with a better goalie. I'm glad he left though I wish he would have said he was going to immediately.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby shane613 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:03 pm

DocEmrick wrote:Hossa.


agreed 250,000%
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby netwolf on Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:38 pm

Dear Stoosh,

please post more often in the Pens forum.

Your pal,

netwolf

8-)
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Stoosh on Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:42 pm

Samsdog wrote:I'm sorry, but no good would have come from having Hossa here long-term. There would be no Orpik, difficulty getting MAF's salary in, and a team filled out with minor leaguers. In short, this team would be the Ottawa Senators with a better goalie. I'm glad he left though I wish he would have said he was going to immediately.


Completely agree. They would've likely had to take Fleury to arbitration or work out a shorter-term deal with him that could've eventually jeopardized their chances of keeping him long-term. Orpik would've been gone. Staal's long-term chances of sticking around would've been compromised as well, and possibly those of Letang.

Frankly, Hossa is good, but he's not good enough to sacrifice all that. Not when a younger scoring winger can be developed via the draft or via trade. They have resources to make a deal for a younger and cheaper talent who can be developed with the rest of the core.
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Re: Free Agency Revisited

Postby Stoosh on Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:49 pm

Noise wrote:
Stoosh wrote:Some thoughts on this winger situation...

2007-08 Playoffs
Sidney Crosby - In 20 games, Sid was 6-21-27, for a points-per-game average of 1.35. That was with Hossa on his wing.
Marian Hossa - 20 games, 12-14-26 for a ppg of 1.30.

2008-09
Sidney Crosby - In 26 games, he has 13-27-40, for a ppg of 1.54. That's been with Satan primarily on his wing. Incidentally...
Miro Satan - In 26 games, he has 10-9-19 for a ppg of 0.73.

It should be noted that...

1. This year, 15 of Crosby's 40 points have come on the powerplay...not as many as I expected to see.
2. There's no way of telling without doing some extensive research how many of Sid's points have come while he's been paired with Malkin.

I just find it interesting that over a relatively similar sample size, Sid's production this year is actually well above his production with Hossa.

Is that indicative of any sort of long-term trend? Absolutely not.

I'm just throwing out the idea that Hossa may not have made all that much a difference. Or if he did, would it have been enough to offset the other sacrifices Shero would've had to make to bring Hossa back? For instance, it's almost certain that Orpik wouldn't have been back if Hossa signed because the money wouldn't have been there. Hossa's deal may have thrown Fleury's long-term deal into jeopardy as well, as well as the signings of guys like Satan and Fedotenko, which would've at least affected depth.

I think it's possible to hook this team up with a quality top-line winger. I just think they need to explore the idea of bringing in a younger winger - someone closer in age to the rest of the core. That winger obviously would be less accomplished than someone like Hossa, Kovalchuk or Gaborik, but the chance at developing a potential next-generation Hossa is the tradeoff for fitting someone in on those lines within the cap structure and preserving depth through the roster.



Filatov, Ryan, Boedker, Voracek, Tikhonov, anyone?


Exactly.

I'd even go a bit older and look at someone along the lines of maybe Andrei Kostitsyn. I'm not saying Montreal would deal him...they probably wouldn't. I'd love to see them get someone along that age range.
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