Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby cojac on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:47 pm

Matthew Monstar wrote:
netwolf wrote:The tradition of the GDT being a conduit for good juju goes back longer than most posters. You're well within your rights if you find it silly or juvenile, but many people do not. Some might enjoy the tradition simply for traditions-sake, or because of superstition. Some believe in the juju, others just find it fun, and some might just enjoy not reading "[insert player/coach name here] sucks" every other post.

If you're in the vocal minority that thinks it's silly, no one forces you to participate. Also note, that there ARE ways to criticize without being disruptive. Not everything I posted in here was all rainbows and puppies. There are plenty of other examples from other posters as well.

Did they play a good game? Far from it, but with the vast amount of complaining in here, you'd swear we were watching Florida, Tampa, Toronto, or [insert name of sucktastic team here] every night. (Ironically, Florida and Toronto won tonight.) Call me crazy, but I don't think many people want to read page after page of people bemoaning everything that goes wrong. It gets old. Quick.


So if people dont agree with certain posters that are in charge of the thread, they can't post? Alot of power on here.

Let me ask you this, What positives were there to take away from the game? 1-7 on the powerplay, another blown lead, Sabourin stilll looks bad.

It's just realism. When its good its good, When its bad its bad. Whats wrong with admitting its bad right now.

Maybe start a true game day thread, which allows people to post what their feelings are while watching the game, both good and bad.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:47 pm

bhaw wrote:
booboo wrote:
tperko wrote:edit: i can't wait for TK and whitney to be healthy. and the gonch!


Maybe Gonch. But what would Whit bring besides the back door trick
of Sidney's, which btw either of Letang of Goligoski can capitalize on?


Who do you think our pp point-man will be when Whitney returns? He brings experience back to the PP. Letang and Gogo are basically puppets out there. THey just fill up space b/c the team needs to have 5 players out there.


I sincerely pray that it's Whitney. For the life of me, I can't understand why Letang isn't on the first PP with Malkin on the point. Gogo adds very little and maybe even detracts a little when you consider how regularly he hangs Malkin out to dry.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby cojac on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:48 pm

Whitney-Letang
Sid-Geno-Staal
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby tperko on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:48 pm

[/quote]
Gogo adds very little and maybe even detracts a little when you consider how regularly he hangs Malkin out to dry.[/quote]


this seemed more prominent tonight
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby booboo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:48 pm

Gary wrote:
cojac wrote:Mike Yeo is here as long as MT is here, period. Don't get me wrong Yeo is not a NHL PP coach, he should be in the ECHL coaching someones PK.


Exactly, because at that level, they need to run the same plays every time, because they aren't skilled enough to do anything else.


Correct. We apparently see the NHL superstars having trouble executing ECHL PP strategies.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 pm

Eismann wrote:
cojac wrote:
tperko wrote:sid was pissed i bet

He should be, he has no legitimate wingers on this team. Since the trade freeze goes into effect in 10 days, he's most likely stuck with the same wingers until the 27th. (they play 9 games in that time frame)


I've learned to just let MT futz with the lines in wutever fashion he does, but the frequency of the Sid-Geno pair in non-dire situations is wearing thin.


Actually, he didn't do it tonight until the third period . . .
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby cojac on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:50 pm

booboo wrote:
Gary wrote:
cojac wrote:Mike Yeo is here as long as MT is here, period. Don't get me wrong Yeo is not a NHL PP coach, he should be in the ECHL coaching someones PK.


Exactly, because at that level, they need to run the same plays every time, because they aren't skilled enough to do anything else.


Correct. We apparently see the NHL superstars having trouble executing ECHL PP strategies.

If Marion were playing, I'd love to see him listen to Yeo with a straight face.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby Eismann on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:50 pm

kirk wrote:
Eismann wrote:
kirk wrote: He coaches a PP that lacks player movement. And, sometimes, I wonder if he might be better off putting out the 5 best and telling them to just do whatever comes naturally instead of trying to "coach" them.


Sid and Geno shouldn't be on the same PP. True, they're deferring less this year, but still way too much. Too many lazy 50-foot passes that only through the grace of booming shots do goals occur, rather than pressing and moving and backing the PKers off, like every other good PP does, and the Pens have done in the past at times.


I'm kind of torn on that one. For once, I'd just like to see them play on the PP like they do at 4 on 4 or 5 on 5. They're just always moving. I don't know, maybe for the next penalty the Pens can request 4 on 4 or just decline the penalty in exchange for a few shifts of Sid and Geno against the other team's fourth line. I just think that the PP would be lethal if you let Sid and Geno move like the players on the Detroit or San Jose PP are always moving and thus always pressuring the PK. That two minute 5 on 3 PK for Buffalo might have been the least demanding 5 on 3 PK in recent memory.


For the most part, BUF stood in a tight triangle. I thought the Pens at least put a good number of pucks on net, but fer cryingoutloud, just jam 2 in front of Miller and then fancy-pass yourself. At least there'd be bodies blocking him. Most of the time, you had Staal in front, but Sykora hanging off to the left waiting for a rebound - which is ok usually, but not at the expense of improving the scoring chance by seriously messing with the goalie's vision and drawing a defender in even closer.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:50 pm

cojac wrote:Whitney-Letang
Sid-Geno-Staal


Will the players be moving on the PP or continuing to stand still like a bunch of circus animals? Better personnel can make a bad situation better, but an effectively coached PP can make a collection of mediocre players seem pretty lethal.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby Why So Serious? on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:52 pm

If #15 and #48 played....we win this one big. No question. All the big faceoffs we could have won and the energy of getting the crowd into it would have been a big factor in this game.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby booboo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:53 pm

profpolisci wrote:The Penguins are what they are and if you don't think this team is as deep as it needs to be with five key players injured and a rookie point on the PP then your heads in a cloud.


I disagree, at least on the rookies end.
They are perfectly capable of performing at the NHL level, with one
exception being Pesonen.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby cojac on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:53 pm

kirk wrote:
cojac wrote:Whitney-Letang
Sid-Geno-Staal


Will the players be moving on the PP or continuing to stand still like a bunch of circus animals? Better personnel can make a bad situation better, but an effectively coached PP can make a collection of mediocre players seem pretty lethal.

I would love to hear what Mario says while watching the PP, :shock:
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby cojac on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:54 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:If #29, #15 and #48 played....we win this one big. No question. All the big faceoffs we could have won and the energy of getting the crowd into it would have been a big factor in this game.

Fixed it.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:54 pm

Eismann wrote:For the most part, BUF stood in a tight triangle. I thought the Pens at least put a good number of pucks on net, but fer cryingoutloud, just jam 2 in front of Miller and then fancy-pass yourself. At least there'd be bodies blocking him. Most of the time, you had Staal in front, but Sykora hanging off to the left waiting for a rebound - which is ok usually, but not at the expense of improving the scoring chance by seriously messing with the goalie's vision and drawing a defender in even closer.


My only point in this is that you've got Geno, who's got a sick shot, and he's never moving. The Pens just pass back and forth trying to set him up for that telegraphed one timer from the point. Players don't move. It's like they hope for a coverage breakdown so that open ice for a shot is created. It's as if Yeo thinks that player movement and unpredictability aren't a part of creating open space and generating great PP scoring chances. It's just frustrating, because the Pens need the PP goals right now.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby netwolf on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:55 pm

It's a long standing LGP.com tradition. There are a few standard rules that govern the GDT, but the starter does have some leeway as far as what he or she want to do. I am going to back the people that still want to carry the tradition forward. I'm not asking everyone to join in; I'm asking that you respect those that do.

And again, I never said it is has to be all positive. There are ways to express dissatisfaction without being a drag on juju. "Orpik is struggling" or "Orpik has flashed back to the pre-LW days" are examples of that. "Satan sucks" and "Yeo is the worst PP coach in the league" are not.

Like I said, I don't care what your opinion is - if you (or anyone else) finds it silly, that's fine with me, but a lot of people don't read a GDT to see everyone venting over everything that goes wrong.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:56 pm

Well dagny you can add me to your foe list and I'll gladly add you to mine. What in the heck is the point of the GDT then? to talk only good? and wind up with half the topic of ridiculous pictures?

The Pen's can't hold a lead. Wait, I gotta find some way to "channel" good juju out of that. :roll:
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby knives of ice on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:57 pm

1. there won't be any trades until at least trade deadline, stop crying
2. the team was missing 6 starters tonight, possibly 7...
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby booboo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:58 pm

bhaw wrote:
booboo wrote:
tperko wrote:edit: i can't wait for TK and whitney to be healthy. and the gonch!


Maybe Gonch. But what would Whit bring besides the back door trick
of Sidney's, which btw either of Letang of Goligoski can capitalize on?


Who do you think our pp point-man will be when Whitney returns? He brings experience back to the PP. Letang and Gogo are basically puppets out there. THey just fill up space b/c the team needs to have 5 players out there.


They score goals when given a chance.
Whit, if he is at his full speed, might be more effective offensively, but, I am worried, by not so much.
His defensive play last season was no better than either of 13 or 58 this season.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:00 am

netwolf wrote:It's a long standing LGP.com tradition. There are a few standard rules that govern the GDT, but the starter does have some leeway as far as what he or she want to do. I am going to back the people that still want to carry the tradition forward. I'm not asking everyone to join in; I'm asking that you respect those that do.

And again, I never said it is has to be all positive. There are ways to express dissatisfaction without being a drag on juju. "Orpik is struggling" or "Orpik has flashed back to the pre-LW days" are examples of that. "Satan sucks" and "Yeo is the worst PP coach in the league" are not.

Like I said, I don't care what your opinion is - if you (or anyone else) finds it silly, that's fine with me, but a lot of people don't read a GDT to see everyone venting over everything that goes wrong.


Netwolf, if you suggest that "Orpik is struggling" BECAUSE he's chasing in his own zone more than he should be and hanging his defensive partner out to dry or if you suggest that "Yeo is the worst PP coach in the league" BECAUSE he coaches a telegraphed PP that, because of a lack of player movement, doesn't challenge the PK and that, absent the back door play, ignores half of the offensive zone, is that o'k?
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby Eismann on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:02 am

kirk wrote:My only point in this is that you've got Geno, who's got a sick shot, and he's never moving. The Pens just pass back and forth trying to set him up for that telegraphed one timer from the point. Players don't move. It's like they hope for a coverage breakdown so that open ice for a shot is created. It's as if Yeo thinks that player movement and unpredictability aren't a part of creating open space and generating great PP scoring chances. It's just frustrating, because the Pens need the PP goals right now.


Oh, I hear ya, Cap'n. An example would be the puck goes to the left point from Geno, the d drifts left, Geno breaks down into the seem between, the half-board man on Geno's side, often Sid, rotates up to cover the point, Geno sets himself for either the feed from the point, or a feed from the opposite half-wall if the 4th man is there. Fairly safe play that Buf tried a few times themselves tonight. Not a world-beater, but an easy way to get the d to respect the unkown.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby littlemoonboot on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:04 am

*Wakes up*

Aw, crap!
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby booboo on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:07 am

knives of ice wrote:1. there won't be any trades until at least trade deadline, stop crying
2. the team was missing 6 starters tonight, possibly 7...


No. They were missing what Buffalo was not. The drive to win.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:11 am

Eismann wrote:
kirk wrote:My only point in this is that you've got Geno, who's got a sick shot, and he's never moving. The Pens just pass back and forth trying to set him up for that telegraphed one timer from the point. Players don't move. It's like they hope for a coverage breakdown so that open ice for a shot is created. It's as if Yeo thinks that player movement and unpredictability aren't a part of creating open space and generating great PP scoring chances. It's just frustrating, because the Pens need the PP goals right now.


Oh, I hear ya, Cap'n. An example would be the puck goes to the left point from Geno, the d drifts left, Geno breaks down into the seem between, the half-board man on Geno's side, often Sid, rotates up to cover the point, Geno sets himself for either the feed from the point, or a feed from the opposite half-wall if the 4th man is there. Fairly safe play that Buf tried a few times themselves tonight. Not a world-beater, but an easy way to get the d to respect the unkown.


That would be a start. I remember the PP when Sid was out. Statistically, it wasn't an improvement. But, it was predicated on Geno always moving and everyone else feeding off what he did. Why couldn't you do the same with Sid and Geno? Let them work the whole offensive zone. Tell everyone else to feed off what they're doing and to move to the open ice that they'd create. Not sure why I bother . . . it's beating the proverbial dead horse in the hope that the seas will part and that Mike Yeo might try something different on the PP beyond substituting personnel.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby kirk on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:12 am

booboo wrote:
knives of ice wrote:1. there won't be any trades until at least trade deadline, stop crying
2. the team was missing 6 starters tonight, possibly 7...


No. They were missing what Buffalo was not. The drive to win.


And, the goalie to make a key save, more than two defensemen who would be in the top 7 of a playoff caliber team, a winger who would be on the top three lines in say Boston or Detroit or San Jose, coaching adjustments . . . but, I digress.
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Re: Official GDT - Sabres at Pens 12/8/08

Postby Goalie on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:14 am

How long will the Gogo on the #1 PP experiment last?

He kills the #1 power play. His LH shot is not his fault but it gives the PP one less option. He may become a better PP player in the NHL but he is still playing at AHL speed. That loooooong wrist wind up was great in the AHL, guys in the NHL are laughing at him. He hangs Malkin out to dry regularly and the worst part of it all is that #58 sits on the bench while Gogo is out there killing the PP.

This is purely a coaching problem. I know its popular to blame Yeo but Therien has final say on all matters I would assume. I am not a fire coaches guy at this time but this has been their biggest glaring error this season.
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