Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby Draftnik on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:45 am

Who have the Caps or Wings called up this season (other than Alzner, a top 5 pick) that has been a standout?
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby brwi on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:03 am

The Current One wrote:Sorry, but Wallace is another dime-a-dozen player that the Pens seem to have a plethora of. An example of that would be Kennedy - gritty, but can't score a goal to save his life. What good does it do to have centers like Sid and Geno when your wings can't finish off their passes? Oh, and if Jeff Taffe can play on Sid's line, then I'd venture to say that Jeremy Williams can. How a washed-up bum like Taffe is even playing on this team (and on the first line) is beyond my comprehension.


I think Taffe has played all of two shifts on the 1st line so far this year when he's been in the line up. Wow. Of course, the fact that he practiced with Crosby and Satan one afternoon was enough to start a riot.

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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:35 am

netwolf wrote:Jeremy Williams is 24 years old and was drafted in 2003. Pens players that age or younger currently on the Pens roster include:

Staal, Jordan (20)
Crosby, Sidney (21)
Letang, Kris (21)
Kennedy, Tyler (22)
Malkin, Evgeni (22)
Goligoski, Alex (23)
Stone, Ryan (23)
Fleury, Marc-Andre (24)
Talbot, Maxime (24)
Wallace, Tim (24)

Anyone stop to think the main reason the Pens don't have much at the AHL level right now is because all of their top picks are already up and playing?


Thanks for stealing my thunder, netbot. I was ready to make a brilliant plot about the "depth" and the fact that everyone has either already on the team or shipped off in the Hossa trade.

And, in all honesty, I dont see whats such a tragedy about having a guy like Taffe fill in as depth. He's been around the league for a long time and can fit in a few roles. I'm not sure if there is much more to ask for at the price.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:42 am

Also, it's idiotic to suggest that anyone in the AHL should be called on and automatically fit into ANY team's first line. If they were NHL First line material, well, wouldn't they already be on a first line in the first place?
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby bakeman81 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:47 am

The Current One wrote:An example of that would be Kennedy - gritty, but can't score a goal to save his life.


6 goals in 24 games for a third liner. That would be about a 20 goal season. Where the hell is this team ever going to go when our third liners are only having 20 goal seasons?

(Sarcasm)
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby ulf on Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:04 am

but, but, but we have JANNE PESONEN IN THE AHL!!!
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby The Snapshot on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:02 am

The Current One wrote:Sorry, but Wallace is another dime-a-dozen player that the Pens seem to have a plethora of. An example of that would be Kennedy - gritty, but can't score a goal to save his life.


You are posting just to post, with this kind of wildly inaccurate bunk.

Kennedy has 15 points and 6 goals in 24 games this season. That equates to a 20G 50P guy. That is not dime a dozen, nor are his energy, hits and relentless forechecking. If you wanted to sell your premise, you should at least try to stick to Taffe and Stone. Then again, the Pens have Letang, Goligoski, Malkin, Crosby and Staal all playing huge roles before most of these other teams "prospects" have even left the AHL.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby Gaucho on Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:28 am

Image
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby The Current One on Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:13 am

Looking at the Baby Pens roster, can anyone honestly say that there's anyone on that team with top-line potential? Look at their leading scorers - Minard, Taffe, Pesonen, Stone and James. Dime-a-dozen guys who are projected as nothing more than third or fourth liners in the NHL. Jeffrey has all of four goals, and Caputi seven. Right now, they're fourth or fourth in their division, and guess whose farm team is in first? That's right, the Caps (Hershey). Drafting Sid and Geno were no-brainers, but it's the gems in the later rounds that the Pens never seem to find, like Zetterberg or Franzen from Detroit. As for Kennedy, you can project all you want, but he'll never be anything more than an energy guy on the third line who can score the odd goal here or there. Do you think he'd even be on Detroit's roster?
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby Kovy27 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:25 am

The Current One wrote:Looking at the Baby Pens roster, can anyone honestly say that there's anyone on that team with top-line potential? Look at their leading scorers - Minard, Taffe, Pesonen, Stone and James. Dime-a-dozen guys who are projected as nothing more than third or fourth liners in the NHL. Jeffrey has all of four goals, and Caputi seven. Right now, they're fourth or fourth in their division, and guess whose farm team is in first? That's right, the Caps (Hershey). Drafting Sid and Geno were no-brainers, but it's the gems in the later rounds that the Pens never seem to find, like Zetterberg or Franzen from Detroit. As for Kennedy, you can project all you want, but he'll never be anything more than an energy guy on the third line who can score the odd goal here or there. Do you think he'd even be on Detroit's roster?


Please...Just stop. Go back to sleep and relax. Merry Christmas.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby Number Nine on Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:27 am

The Current One wrote:Looking at the Baby Pens roster, can anyone honestly say that there's anyone on that team with top-line potential? Look at their leading scorers - Minard, Taffe, Pesonen, Stone and James. Dime-a-dozen guys who are projected as nothing more than third or fourth liners in the NHL. Jeffrey has all of four goals, and Caputi seven. Right now, they're fourth or fourth in their division, and guess whose farm team is in first? That's right, the Caps (Hershey). Drafting Sid and Geno were no-brainers, but it's the gems in the later rounds that the Pens never seem to find, like Zetterberg or Franzen from Detroit. As for Kennedy, you can project all you want, but he'll never be anything more than an energy guy on the third line who can score the odd goal here or there. Do you think he'd even be on Detroit's roster?


For what its worth, I agree completely.

We don't lack "depth", we have a ton of it actually. What we lack is "scoring depth", CP drafted for the old NHL, muckers & grinders that could score dirty goals. (i.e. Max Talbot) The only problem is that players like that rarely turn into top line talent in the NHL. These guys like Taffe and Minard will dominate the AHL and score because they have just enough speed and talent to be the best of the worst.

What we lack is a player that is capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby bhaw on Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:48 am

Ok, so is this argument really saying "our depth sucks" and using Jeremy Williams as the example of why other teams are better than ours?

We actually have the top scoring rookie dman in the league right now that came up from the AHL due to injuries. And there are A LOT of good rookie dmen out there this year. But that probably doesn't count...

Ok, so where are all these superstar AHLers exactly? I've seen 2 names: Williams and Versteeg. Is that it?
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby newarenanow on Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:56 am

One word, "Wow".
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:14 am

netwolf wrote:Jeremy Williams is 24 years old and was drafted in 2003. Pens players that age or younger currently on the Pens roster include:

Staal, Jordan (20)
Crosby, Sidney (21)
Letang, Kris (21)
Kennedy, Tyler (22)
Malkin, Evgeni (22)
Goligoski, Alex (23)
Stone, Ryan (23)
Fleury, Marc-Andre (24)
Talbot, Maxime (24)
Wallace, Tim (24)

Anyone stop to think the main reason the Pens don't have much at the AHL level right now is because all of their top picks are already up and playing?


And they are playing very well (except for Stone). If anyone told me this team would be without Gonchar and Whitney for half the season and be 18-11 at Christmas, I'd have a hard time believing that.

The OP has a point about some players not pulling their weight (I'm speaking directly to you Maxime Talbot), but overall, the young players have had an impressive showing. I'd be more concerned if half the roster was over 36 years old like the Red Wings.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby shmenguin on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:17 am

if you're relying that heavily on AHL call-ups, you have bigger problems. those guys making an impact are the exception, not the rule. yes our callups have been kind of sucky, but when the best you hope for is average, "kind of sucky" isn't that far off.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:27 am

shmenguin wrote:if you're relying that heavily on AHL call-ups, you have bigger problems. those guys making an impact are the exception, not the rule. yes our callups have been kind of sucky, but when the best you hope for is average, "kind of sucky" isn't that far off.


The forwards are the ones who have been sucky. The showing by Stone and Minard so far this season has been pukeworthy. But some of the NHL forwards (I'm speaking directly to you Maxime Talbot) need to pick it up, too. There are plenty of young defensemen. We're just a winger or two short (and a dependable veteran backup goaltender wouldn't hurt, either).
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:31 am

Number Nine wrote:For what its worth, I agree completely.

We don't lack "depth", we have a ton of it actually. What we lack is "scoring depth", CP drafted for the old NHL, muckers & grinders that could score dirty goals. (i.e. Max Talbot) The only problem is that players like that rarely turn into top line talent in the NHL. These guys like Taffe and Minard will dominate the AHL and score because they have just enough speed and talent to be the best of the worst.

What we lack is a player that is capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck.


Guys in the AHL that are capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck are.....already in the NHL.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby bhaw on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:37 am

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Number Nine wrote:For what its worth, I agree completely.

We don't lack "depth", we have a ton of it actually. What we lack is "scoring depth", CP drafted for the old NHL, muckers & grinders that could score dirty goals. (i.e. Max Talbot) The only problem is that players like that rarely turn into top line talent in the NHL. These guys like Taffe and Minard will dominate the AHL and score because they have just enough speed and talent to be the best of the worst.

What we lack is a player that is capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck.


Guys in the AHL that are capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck are.....already in the NHL.


That's kind of what I was thinking. How many top line wingers are just hanging out in the AHL b/c the NHL team doesn't need more scoring?
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby 71 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:39 am

When everybody is healthy the depth will be fine:
My preference
Cooke-Crosby-Satan
Fedotenko-Malkin-Sykora
Dupuis-Staal-Kennedy
Talbot-Zigomanis-Wallace
healthy scratch
Godard, Taffe, Stone, Minard etc.

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Whitney
Goligoski-Boucher
healthy scratch
Scuderi, Eaton, Gill

Shero will have a plethora of NHL caliber d-men on his roster once everyone comes back and I can see him moving at least 1 by the deadline for forward depth, but even if he didn't I still like our forwards when healthy and think the Pens can roll three solid lines with the hot hand between Cooke, Talbot, Kennedy, and Dupuis skating with Sid and Satan. This is still a team we haven't seen yet this year with Whits and Sarge being out and when they come back I like the Pens top 6 d-men as much as any team's in the league.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby newarenanow on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:40 am

With this poor drafting, lack of depth, and sucky team, I wish they would have just moved to Kansas City. The people of Pittsburgh should not have to watch this crappy team that just made it to the Cup finals.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby bhaw on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:44 am

newarenanow wrote:With this poor drafting, lack of depth, and sucky team, I wish they would have just moved to Kansas City. The people of Pittsburgh should not have to watch this crappy team that just made it to the Cup finals.



Just so we're clear, this is NOT the same team that made it to the finals last year. This team lacks heart, passion, a will to win, Marian Hossa, a top 2 PP, intensity, the will to hit other players, and a championship coach. Please don't confuse the two ever again... :wink:
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby newarenanow on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:46 am

bhaw wrote:
newarenanow wrote:With this poor drafting, lack of depth, and sucky team, I wish they would have just moved to Kansas City. The people of Pittsburgh should not have to watch this crappy team that just made it to the Cup finals.



Just so we're clear, this is NOT the same team that made it to the finals last year. This team lacks heart, passion, a will to win, Marian Hossa, a top 2 PP, intensity, the will to hit other players, and a championship coach. Please don't confuse the two ever again... :wink:


Even more reason to move the team. :D
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby newarenanow on Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:10 am

The Current One wrote:Looking at the Baby Pens roster, can anyone honestly say that there's anyone on that team with top-line potential? Look at their leading scorers - Minard, Taffe, Pesonen, Stone and James. Dime-a-dozen guys who are projected as nothing more than third or fourth liners in the NHL. Jeffrey has all of four goals, and Caputi seven. Right now, they're fourth or fourth in their division, and guess whose farm team is in first? That's right, the Caps (Hershey). Drafting Sid and Geno were no-brainers, but it's the gems in the later rounds that the Pens never seem to find, like Zetterberg or Franzen from Detroit. As for Kennedy, you can project all you want, but he'll never be anything more than an energy guy on the third line who can score the odd goal here or there. Do you think he'd even be on Detroit's roster?


Also, look at the age of Zetterberf and Franzen, they are in their late 20s. The Pens did go through a tough stretch with drafting, but with this core here, and the new picks over the last few years, I think some solid guys will be coming up. It takes time for them to develop. The Pens are a very young team.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby Jim on Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:16 am

I like what I have seen of Wallace.

This thread is another example of how people can not disconnect Playstation style hockey from reality.
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Re: Pens have no depth at NHL or AHL level

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:18 am

bhaw wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:
Number Nine wrote:For what its worth, I agree completely.

We don't lack "depth", we have a ton of it actually. What we lack is "scoring depth", CP drafted for the old NHL, muckers & grinders that could score dirty goals. (i.e. Max Talbot) The only problem is that players like that rarely turn into top line talent in the NHL. These guys like Taffe and Minard will dominate the AHL and score because they have just enough speed and talent to be the best of the worst.

What we lack is a player that is capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck.


Guys in the AHL that are capable of playing top line minutes and being creative with the puck are.....already in the NHL.


That's kind of what I was thinking. How many top line wingers are just hanging out in the AHL b/c the NHL team doesn't need more scoring?


And to further elaborate, you find guys who can score during the 1st, 2nd, and maybe the 3rd round. Beyond that, its a crapshoot. The majority of the pens high draft picks can score, and cooincidentally, they are in the NHL. Guys taken in the later rounds, generally do not have that scoring potential. Guys that are capable of scoring and playing first line minutes are.....already drafted by the 3rd, 4th rounds.
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