Goligoski a Star

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Goligoski a Star

Postby pcm on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:23 pm

One of the NHL's three stars for the night, with his 2 g and 1 a. The way his development is going, I don't see him being outplayed by six other defenders consistently on this team. Sure it makes sense logically to send him down to WBS (cap space, two-way contract, playing time). But is it best for the team?

I've have been thoroughly impressed by his defensive positional play so far, which I thought was his albatross. His biggest weakness is that he's not going to beat people in front of the net or along the boards. But he's good with his stick and his awareness is better than expected. Therrien plays him 19 minutes a game, more than Eaton and tied with Gill.

He's scoring at a pace equal to Bouwemeister, Visnovsky, Chara, Vlasic, Pronger, Kubina... With Brassard out for the season, there are only 4 other rookies with more points than Goligoski. He's 7 points back from the lead. Bobby Ryan is coming on strong, but it's very likely Goligoski will be a rookie of the year candidate if he doesn't get sent down. Though, it may be for another team.

As an RFA, what kind of contract do you give to a guy like this, especially if you're tight at the cap and your defensive budget is mostly spent? All of this makes me think that he is likely the chip that will be dealt. I love his no frills of attitude, but the return for him could fill the Pens one major hole.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby KG on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:25 pm

Goligoski for Horton = )....silly salary cap won't allow it!
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Goligoski WILL NOT/SHOULD NOT be sent to WB/S when this team is fully healthy. When Whitney comes back, you sit Eaton in the pressbox. And when Gill is ready, I think you send Boucher (although I don't think he's been that bad since he's been here) to the pressbox.

Alex Goligoski is clearly ATLEAST a top 6 dman on this team. And he has shown it. And I am so glad that he finally learning to shoot the puck from everywhere. He has now 6G, 12A, 18P in 32 games as a dman. And he is second on the team with a +11. He would definitely get my vote for the Calder Trophy early here.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby KG on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:36 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:Goligoski WILL NOT/SHOULD NOT be sent to WB/S when this team is fully healthy. When Whitney comes back, you sit Eaton in the pressbox. And when Gill is ready, I think you send Boucher (although I don't think he's been that bad since he's been here) to the pressbox.

Alex Goligoski is clearly ATLEAST a top 6 dman on this team. And he has shown it. And I am so glad that he finally learning to shoot the puck from everywhere. He has now 6G, 12A, 18P in 32 games as a dman. And he is second on the team with a +11. He would definitely get my vote for the Calder Trophy early here.


I agree that Goligoski does not deserve to be sent down. But if you are sitting Eaton and Boucher that's $4.5MM against the cap sitting and rotting. Shero has to make a move there. I hate that much money sitting...
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Pens15 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:37 pm

Definitely. Goligoski is outstanding, and I think he's left all the talk about him getting sent back down, in the dust. When you have a defenseman producing at the clip he is, there's no way you send him down. He's shown that he has more offensive ability than Letang. He's on pace to score more goals and points than Whitney did last year.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Pens15 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:40 pm

KG wrote:
Why So Serious? wrote:Goligoski WILL NOT/SHOULD NOT be sent to WB/S when this team is fully healthy. When Whitney comes back, you sit Eaton in the pressbox. And when Gill is ready, I think you send Boucher (although I don't think he's been that bad since he's been here) to the pressbox.

Alex Goligoski is clearly ATLEAST a top 6 dman on this team. And he has shown it. And I am so glad that he finally learning to shoot the puck from everywhere. He has now 6G, 12A, 18P in 32 games as a dman. And he is second on the team with a +11. He would definitely get my vote for the Calder Trophy early here.


I agree that Goligoski does not deserve to be sent down. But if you are sitting Eaton and Boucher that's $4.5MM against the cap sitting and rotting. Shero has to make a move there. I hate that much money sitting...


I feel what you are saying RE Boucher/Eaton, but hey it is what it is. You have to do what is best for the team. And any scenario that involves either of those two playing and Goligoski not playing, is not what is best for the team.

I still don't get how Eaton earned a raise by barely playing the last two years. Wish we could have a mulligan on that signing.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Gaucho on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:46 pm

I have no idea why anyone would think Gogo could be send down.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby DelPen on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:47 pm

Eaton is insurance for next year, when he on the top of his game he's awesome but he's been pretty bad this year when in the lineup. But if we lose Gill, Boucher and Scuds and can't get Gogo signed we will be thin on the blueline and having Eaton udner contract prevents a panic move. He's solid depth and that costs money in today's NHL.

But for now, the mobile defense that can move the puck wins stanley cups. Pair him with Scuderi and they'll be fine in May.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby DelPen on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:47 pm

Gaucho wrote:I have no idea why anyone would think Gogo could be send down.


could or should? He could as far as waiver exemptions go (at least I think)
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby pcm on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:47 pm

Boucher will not sit. Only Letang gets more playing time than him. Based on icetime, Eaton will get the boot. And then they will probably rotate Gill and GoGo based on who they are playing. Each has their role, and it's hard to say which is better 5 on 5. (Though GoGo is +11 to Gill at +3.)

I wouldn't mind seeing them dress 7 defensemen. Gill and Gogo each have their roles. For the forwards, there's no shortage of elite centers to double shift on the fourth line.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Pens15 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:50 pm

DelPen wrote:Eaton is insurance for next year, when he on the top of his game he's awesome but he's been pretty bad this year when in the lineup. But if we lose Gill, Boucher and Scuds and can't get Gogo signed we will be thin on the blueline and having Eaton udner contract prevents a panic move. He's solid depth and that costs money in today's NHL.

But for now, the mobile defense that can move the puck wins stanley cups. Pair him with Scuderi and they'll be fine in May.


I understand the thinking of having a solid NHL depth guy like Eaton, but with the cap being what it is, it's a luxury that I would just as soon live without. I don't think we'd be much worse off, if at all, having a Lovejoy or a Dan Richmond coming up if we need the depth, rather than blowing 2 mil on Eaton, even more so when he's not playing well like now.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby KG on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:57 pm

Pens15 wrote:
DelPen wrote:Eaton is insurance for next year, when he on the top of his game he's awesome but he's been pretty bad this year when in the lineup. But if we lose Gill, Boucher and Scuds and can't get Gogo signed we will be thin on the blueline and having Eaton udner contract prevents a panic move. He's solid depth and that costs money in today's NHL.

But for now, the mobile defense that can move the puck wins stanley cups. Pair him with Scuderi and they'll be fine in May.


I understand the thinking of having a solid NHL depth guy like Eaton, but with the cap being what it is, it's a luxury that I would just as soon live without. I don't think we'd be much worse off, if at all, having a Lovejoy or a Dan Richmond coming up if we need the depth, rather than blowing 2 mil on Eaton, even more so when he's not playing well like now.


I hear what both of you are saying...Sydor was thought of as this same type of insurance...Personally, I'd rather save the $2MM and use it more toward other needs and have a AHL veteran or prospect be the insurance for the league minimum...
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Jesse on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:07 pm

For those that don't think he should be sent down, what would you do when Gonchar and Whitney return in terms of the line-up?
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby tluke53 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:08 pm

I think Ryan Whitney may get moved before the deadline. I really like Whitney, but lets face it you have to trade from strength to fix a weakness. We still lack enough goal scoring depth up front. There must be a team out there looking for a young offensive defenseman with expendable forward talent. I go over this in my head and it just doesn’t make sense to keep Gogo, Letang, Whitney, and Gonchar knowing that we need help up front. Gonchar won't be healthy enough to move before the deadline. Whitney would bring the best return and frees enough cap space to pay for the player(s) in return. It's really the only move that makes since in my mind.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Pens15 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:13 pm

tluke53 wrote:I think Ryan Whitney may get moved before the deadline. I really like Whitney, but lets face it you have to trade from strength to fix a weakness. We still lack enough goal scoring depth up front. There must be a team out there looking for a young offensive defenseman with expendable forward talent. I go over this in my head and it just doesn’t make sense to keep Gogo, Letang, Whitney, and Gonchar knowing that we need help up front. Gonchar won't be healthy enough to move before the deadline. Whitney would bring the best return and frees enough cap space to pay for the player(s) in return. It's really the only move that makes since in my mind.


Yeah, I have been thinking this for a while. The emergence of Goligoski really makes it more of an option. The only reason I would hesitate is because while guys like Goligoski and Letang have been very good, they are undersized. Whitney stands at 6'4, which is one of the main reasons he was drafted so high. Unfortunately he doesn't use his size, but if he ever learns to, we might regret trading him.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Kraftster on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:31 pm

Well count me among the crazy people that still believe Goligoski is going to get sent down when Gill returns. As was pointed out by someone else, Boucher is getting A LOT of icetime, and, I don't see him going from where he is at right now to the press box when the Pens have a guy that doesn't have to clear waivers that can be sent down. Its not as if Goligoski has a flawless game which couldn't gain any refinement at all in some time down in WBS. I just don't see the Pens sitting both Eaton and Boucher on the bench for an extended period of time. Also, while Goligoski's agent would certainly say something to the effect of, "he would have had XX points if he hadn't been sent down," cutting off Goligoski's production where it is at when Gill returns could end up saving the Pens some money when it comes time to resign Goligoski next offseason. I think he's already going to be pushing $3 million based on a lot of the other deals around the league (Edler, Greene, Daley, Seabrook, etc.).
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby farnham16 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:35 pm

Hes playing well. But who would you sit when Gill, Whitney, and Gonchar are all back? None of those 3 will be sitting of course.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby tluke53 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:35 pm

Pens15 wrote:
tluke53 wrote:I think Ryan Whitney may get moved before the deadline. I really like Whitney, but lets face it you have to trade from strength to fix a weakness. We still lack enough goal scoring depth up front. There must be a team out there looking for a young offensive defenseman with expendable forward talent. I go over this in my head and it just doesn’t make sense to keep Gogo, Letang, Whitney, and Gonchar knowing that we need help up front. Gonchar won't be healthy enough to move before the deadline. Whitney would bring the best return and frees enough cap space to pay for the player(s) in return. It's really the only move that makes since in my mind.


Yeah, I have been thinking this for a while. The emergence of Goligoski really makes it more of an option. The only reason I would hesitate is because while guys like Goligoski and Letang have been very good, they are undersized. Whitney stands at 6'4, which is one of the main reasons he was drafted so high. Unfortunately he doesn't use his size, but if he ever learns to, we might regret trading him.


I agree! Trading him would be a risky proposition, but I don't foresee him "learning" to use his size. The way he uses it now will probably be the way it is used later. I am more worried about Letang and Gogo. Neither has performed long enough to feel confident that they will meet our long term backside offensive needs. What if Gonchar can no longer perform at a high level after his latest injury? We are still on the hook for that money.

That said ...... trading Whitney at the deadline could also prove to be the type of bold move that could really turn things around. It's so obvious to me that Crosby's "struggles" have more to do with his line mates than his play. He is never going to be a shoot first guy. NEVER! The way the forwards are constituted now is not the most effective use of his passing skills. They don't need an elite player like Hossa, but they should be spending 5 or 6 million on a quality proven goal scorer. Since we are at the cap we need to get rid of 5 or 6 million to acquire that goal scorer. Only two players qualify (Whitney and Gonchar). I guess that explains why I have reached my conclusion that Whitney should be moved. (For the right deal of course)
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Kraftster on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:43 pm

I think its somewhat silly to trade Whitney over Goligoski for what could be as little as $500k difference in salary next season. Everyone automatically jumps to the decision to trade Whitney for cap reasons, but, as early as next season, the difference between the two could be fairly small. You can't make a short-sighted decision to trade Whitney over Goligoski for cap reasons for this season alone. Say Goligoski signs a 3 year $10 million deal this offseason. If all goes well, at the end of that deal, Goligoski will be getting a raise, and, in that season, Whitney will still only be making $4 million.

All I'm saying is that the cap justification for trading Whitney over Goligoski shouldn't get as much weight as it does in the minds of a lot of people.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby cs6687 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:44 pm

I don't Goligoski will get $3 million a season after one good season. Whitney cannot be traded unless the Pens are getting the stud winger in return that Crosby needs.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby KG on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:46 pm

If someone gives Goligoski $3MM after 1 season in the league then the principles of the lockout has not worked = )
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Kraftster on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:46 pm

cs6687 wrote:I don't Goligoski will get $3 million a season after one good season. Whitney cannot be traded unless the Pens are getting the stud winger in return that Crosby needs.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3636658

Granted Edler has one more year @ entry-level, but, still....how's Goligoski's agent not point at that deal?
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby Kraftster on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:48 pm

KG wrote:If someone gives Goligoski $3MM after 1 season in the league then the principles of the lockout has not worked = )


Isn't that basically what Brian Burke said about the "intermediate contract" going out the window? I mean, Edler had 3 points in 22 games. Then 20 in 75. Then he signs a 4 year/$3.25 per extension. Goligoski is having a better first season than Edler did. I don't see why its so hard to believe.

Also, Staal would be the perfect candidate for an intermediate contract. Lets hope that its not completely gone as Burke has said.
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby KG on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:50 pm

Kraftster wrote:
KG wrote:If someone gives Goligoski $3MM after 1 season in the league then the principles of the lockout has not worked = )


Isn't that basically what Brian Burke said about the "intermediate contract" going out the window? I mean, Edler had 3 points in 22 games. Then 20 in 75. Then he signs a 4 year/$3.25 per extension. Goligoski is having a better first season than Edler did. I don't see why its so hard to believe.

Also, Staal would be the perfect candidate for an intermediate contract. Lets hope that its not completely gone as Burke has said.


I agree with you. I don't think it's impossible that it will happen..Doesn't mean that I have to agree with it though :D I'm a fiscal conservative :wink:
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Re: Goligoski a Star

Postby cs6687 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:53 pm

I wouldn't give Goligoski more than $2 million, not after one good season.
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