Is MT losing control?

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Is MT losing control?

Postby lifetimefan on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:20 am

In MT's post game comments he mentioned the players blaming each other on the bench and the usual lack of effort. If he cannot control the bench, is this a sign of him starting lose control of the team?
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby letsgopens87 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:23 am

If they are really doing that, they need to grow up. They're not 12 year old girls who need to talk about each other behind their backs.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Billkamm on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:29 am

That is the biggest sign of a team self-destructing. That is not healthy at all. You never want in-fighting.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby purelebo84 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:30 am

I don't know that this team is nearly as tight as in years past.

Maybe the losses of Armstrong, Malone, and Ruutu hurt a bit more than we thought.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Killiecrankie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:31 am

It worries me that I saw Crosby say to Orpik when going back to the bench a couple games ago. "you dont **** shoot that there" when Orpik put a wrist shot on net. Crosby really seems to be an ******* on the ice, I'm as big a pens fan as anyone here, but I just don't think Sid's an easy guy to play with. There is just something about him I don't like, look I am glad hes on our squad but he seems to much like a ***** sometimes.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:33 am

MT hasn't had control for a while. I've been calling for him to be fired since early September, finally someone else agrees with me. When is he going to be removed?
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:35 am

purelebo84 wrote:I don't know that this team is nearly as tight as in years past.

Maybe the losses of Armstrong, Malone, and Ruutu hurt a bit more than we thought.


Kovalchuk and Army (got his 9th goal tonight) will solve all of our problems. Except financially of course. :D
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby wallflower on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:36 am

Killiecrankie wrote:It worries me that I saw Crosby say to Orpik when going back to the bench a couple games ago. "you dont **** shoot that there" when Orpik put a wrist shot on net. Crosby really seems to be an ******* on the ice, I'm as big a pens fan as anyone here, but I just don't think Sid's an easy guy to play with. There is just something about him I don't like, look I am glad hes on our squad but he seems to much like a b**ch sometimes.

I think the obvious [and smart-aleck] repsonse to that is, Crosby was upset that Orpik didn't make a pointless pass and then turn it over like Crosby's been doing.

:pop:
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby saveourpens on Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:57 am

Killiecrankie wrote:It worries me that I saw Crosby say to Orpik when going back to the bench a couple games ago. "you dont **** shoot that there" when Orpik put a wrist shot on net. Crosby really seems to be an ******* on the ice, I'm as big a pens fan as anyone here, but I just don't think Sid's an easy guy to play with. There is just something about him I don't like, look I am glad hes on our squad but he seems to much like a b**ch sometimes.


ok, you've obviously never played any form of hockey. Yes, they're professionals, but unless everything is roses, when a team is going through a rough patch, players are sometimes gonna get on each other.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Killiecrankie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:01 am

saveourpens wrote:
Killiecrankie wrote:It worries me that I saw Crosby say to Orpik when going back to the bench a couple games ago. "you dont **** shoot that there" when Orpik put a wrist shot on net. Crosby really seems to be an ******* on the ice, I'm as big a pens fan as anyone here, but I just don't think Sid's an easy guy to play with. There is just something about him I don't like, look I am glad hes on our squad but he seems to much like a b**ch sometimes.


ok, you've obviously never played any form of hockey. Yes, they're professionals, but unless everything is roses, when a team is going through a rough patch, players are sometimes gonna get on each other.



Actually I have, and teammates that got on me or other players on the squad when we were losing got a punch in the mouth, which is what you deserve.
When my Captain got on someone, he didn't call them out unless absolutely necessary, and when I was Captain I didn't do the chicken **** that Sid does.


It's called class
Last edited by Killiecrankie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby saveourpens on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:02 am

purelebo84 wrote:I don't know that this team is nearly as tight as in years past.

Maybe the losses of Armstrong, Malone, and Ruutu hurt a bit more than we thought.


Please, unless you're in the locker room, don't make any judgements about how "tight" the team is.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:07 am

saveourpens wrote:
purelebo84 wrote:I don't know that this team is nearly as tight as in years past.

Maybe the losses of Armstrong, Malone, and Ruutu hurt a bit more than we thought.


Please, unless you're in the locker room, don't make any judgements about how "tight" the team is.


I still think it's a valid point that with the losses of Malone and Roberts, this team took a hit on locker room and on the ice leadership.

From what I've seen this year, that C on Crosby's jersey is there for visual purposes. I'm not seeing any "captaining" from him. Each captain has their own way of handling the role, but I remember Lemieux, Francis, and Jagr being far more vocal with their teammates out there on the ice during stoppages of play.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby saveourpens on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:07 am

Idoit40fans wrote:MT hasn't had control for a while. I've been calling for him to be fired since early September, finally someone else agrees with me. When is he going to be removed?


Teams fire coaches b/c it's much easier to make it look like there is a change than replace the lineup. Has the replacing of a coach ever led to a team's turnaround????? Even Edzo bashers can't argue with the fact that MT had basically the same record as he did.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:12 am

MT isn't the problem of this team. Firing him is a cop out for the poor performance of the players. The coach can coach all he wants but if the players aren't working hard (which it's evident they are being out worked) then it should fall on the players as well.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:19 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:MT isn't the problem of this team. Firing him is a cop out for the poor performance of the players. The coach can coach all he wants but if the players aren't working hard (which it's evident they are being out worked) then it should fall on the players as well.



You can't fire the whole team, so in this situation deserved or not the coach gets the ax.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Bowser on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:25 am

Tom Fitzgerald... next coach of the Pens... that's my prediction.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby bhaw on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:27 am

When teams play bad, all you hear is the bad stuff going on b/c the good stuff doesn't matter when you win.

When you're loosing, "Hey, on that play you need to go to the net so I can hit you with a pass" turns into "Why weren't you in front on the net?!?!"

When you can't score, a missed call by the refs means the difference in the game.

MT is going to bear the brunt of this, but as a former coach of a bad college team, you can't force your players to put everything they have onto the ice and you can't force them to play a style they don't want to play. When it's going bad, your job is that much harder. I would be all for MT calling up 4 WBS guys, one for each line, sitting 4 regulars, and telling the AHLers to play their rear ends off or they will never see the NHL again.

It's sounding too much like Ottawa of last year...
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:36 am

SolidSnake wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:MT isn't the problem of this team. Firing him is a cop out for the poor performance of the players. The coach can coach all he wants but if the players aren't working hard (which it's evident they are being out worked) then it should fall on the players as well.



You can't fire the whole team, so in this situation deserved or not the coach gets the ax.


You can get rid of the players that don't hustle however (i.e. Satan).

What is a new coach going to do? Make the players work any harder? I think some of this blame should fall on #87.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:39 am

bhaw wrote:
It's sounding too much like Ottawa of last year...


I said this to my friend after the Toronto game the other night. Outside of Heatley, Spezza, and Alfredsson, that team has no secondary scoring.

I'd like to see what the stats are for this team for our goals where Sid/Malkin aren't part of them. I think this will surprise some people and show the lack of secondary scoring we have as well.

The gameplan for the other team is simple. Shut down Sid and Geno and you win (as hard as that may be).
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Noise on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:45 am

The thing is though Bob
when the Pens went on that tear with Conklin and Malkin- they had one scoring line. That was it.

They played good defense, they got good goaltending, and they played the system well. Everyone bought into MT and they succeeded.

Solid defensive play and goaltending. I think that the Pens have the tools to do that.

And one good line- I think they have the tools to do that as well. When Kennedy comes back, dare I say two good lines with the Sesame street line back in the fold.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Waffles on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:47 am

just geno these days, bob. Sid is practically shutting himself down.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Noise on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:49 am

Remember when Crosby used to dangle through defensemen all the time and draw penalties constantly?

And now they just kind of hold him up when he tries to do that.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby bhaw on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:50 am

Noise wrote:Remember when Crosby used to dangle through defensemen all the time and draw penalties constantly?

And now they just kind of hold him up when he tries to do that.


I would partly blame the officiating. It has deteriorated back to the 90s almost. But also what you are saying.
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby Noise on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:55 am

If it is the officiating allowing more obstruction
well then Crosby needs to adapt
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Re: Is MT losing control?

Postby ru10tu10 on Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:22 am

For MT to go public with this issue says a lot - this is his way of letting the public exposure get these guys (oh, I was so tempted to type 'guy' in Therrien-speak) to stop their stupid way (couldn't resist) and just get on with it.

In my mind, Crosby should NOT be captain of this team. Let the 21-year old do what he does best and let him play hockey - have fun doing so.

Having said that, who do you choose? Malone, with his experience through the bad times and good, all with this organization, would have been a good choice. Now that he is gone, maybe Orpik, who was touted long ago as a potential C before Sid hit the scene.

A previous poster mentioned a Satan problem - I do not believe that he is carrying his weight as a top 6 forward, and still rue the fact that RS offered Hossa the dael that he did, and had to wait until Hossa made up his mind - thereby missing on guys like Tanguay and Huselius, and ending up with Fedotenko and Satan - not that I mind Fedotenko.

Look at the Pens cap situation now - how in the world was RS even going to sign Fleury if we had inked Hossa? Was Orpik just an afterthought then?
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