PG Pen's Prospect Rating

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PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Geezer on Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:11 am

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08360/937530-61.stm
What go you think about Molinari's ranking? I didn't expect the Russian goaltender to be included. He must be rating Vellieux strictly on potential. I also thought Goligoski had less than 2 years pro experience which is the criteria he used.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby The Current One on Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:29 am

I think it shows that the Pens have no elite prospects in their system. I see a couple third-line players, and 4th or 5th d-men, but not much else. If Caputi is their highest-ranked prospect, the Pens are in big trouble.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby the wicked child on Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:41 am

The Pens have no elite prospects in their system because they have all gradauted to the NHL, or never spent a day in the AHL in the first place. When all of your top picks are playing in the NHL already, you are probably not going to be loaded on the farm.

I guess people have forgotten that it usually takes time for prospects to develop. Every first round pick since 2000 is already playing on the team, except for Armstrong and Esposito who were traded. Letang and Goligoski are both in the NHL already...

I'm not really sure what people expect.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby bhaw on Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:55 am

The Current One wrote:I think it shows that the Pens have no elite prospects in their system. I see a couple third-line players, and 4th or 5th d-men, but not much else. If Caputi is their highest-ranked prospect, the Pens are in big trouble.


I don't get this. Wouldn't an elite player be in the NHL... ie guys like Sid, Malkin, Staal, Letang, etc etc....

Who do other teams have in their farm system that are elite players? This is probably the worst criticism I've heard of the team in a while.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Jesse on Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:13 pm

I don't know that I would put Veilleux and Grant that high. I don't know that I would put Veilleux in there at all.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Jesse on Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:14 pm

the wicked child wrote:I guess people have forgotten that it usually takes time for prospects to develop.


No doubt. There's nothing wrong with a kid just because it takes him 2 years to adapt to the next level of play. People in Pittsburgh have had this instant gratification thing going on since Crosby and Malkin arrived.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby PensBeerGeek on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:11 pm

Jesse wrote:
the wicked child wrote:I guess people have forgotten that it usually takes time for prospects to develop.


No doubt. There's nothing wrong with a kid just because it takes him 2 years to adapt to the next level of play. People in Pittsburgh have had this instant gratification thing going on since Crosby and Malkin arrived.


Well said, Jesse (as usual). We're not drafting in the top 5 anytime soon (I hope), so instant impact players are just not going to be available to the Pens in the near future.

I'm actually excited because this entire list (with the exception of Pechurski) is likely to be in WB/S next year, filling out the system again. I want to get these guys together and see how they play as a team, and find out who can come in and contribute (any of them who could play in Pittsburgh in 2010 would be a HUGE help in a cap-declining year, though of course I would not rush a prospect up JUST for that reason).

Recent drafts feel like we've plucked a lot out of them, unlike some of the early decade CP drafts (though, to be fair, 2005 was a good draft also). Was scouting something that this team found too much of a luxury when pennies had to be pinched?

Edit: Ohh, and with KV, I guess it comes back to "you can't teach 6'5" ". He's an amazingly fluid skater for his size, and maybe the AHL challenge will wake him out of his lazy stupor.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Pens15 on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:26 pm

You guys are missing the point. The complaints aren't because the guys are taking too long to get here. The complaints are because there is a perception that we don't have any prospects with high ceilings right now. It's a debatable point. Of all the forwards, Caputi might be the only one with top 6 potential, and he's far from a sure thing. A lot of people aren't very high on Villieux or Zabotel.

It would be huge if we could fill our winger void from within. But unfortunately there seems to be a lack of viable top 6 prospects.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby pens_CT on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:28 pm

I wouldn't be suprised to see: Nathan Moon, Luca Caputi, KV, CPZ, Brian Strait, Dustin Jeffery, and Carl Sneep all making solid contributions in the NHL in the next 2 to 4 yrs. While none of them might be elite stars, in a salary cap sport how many elite stars can you afford? You need to place solid contributors along with the stars in order to win cups.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Stoosh on Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:20 pm

Pens15 wrote:You guys are missing the point. The complaints aren't because the guys are taking too long to get here. The complaints are because there is a perception that we don't have any prospects with high ceilings right now. It's a debatable point. Of all the forwards, Caputi might be the only one with top 6 potential, and he's far from a sure thing. A lot of people aren't very high on Villieux or Zabotel.

It would be huge if we could fill our winger void from within. But unfortunately there seems to be a lack of viable top 6 prospects.


If this is the case, then people also need to come to terms with the idea of NOT making a big-time trade for a higher-profile winger that could cost us another first-round pick.

People want high-ceiling players but in most "deep" drafts, these can't-miss, "high ceiling" players only last at most about the first 12, maybe 15 picks...and that's in a deep draft.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby bhaw on Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:21 pm

Pens15 wrote:You guys are missing the point. The complaints aren't because the guys are taking too long to get here. The complaints are because there is a perception that we don't have any prospects with high ceilings right now. It's a debatable point. Of all the forwards, Caputi might be the only one with top 6 potential, and he's far from a sure thing. A lot of people aren't very high on Villieux or Zabotel.

It would be huge if we could fill our winger void from within. But unfortunately there seems to be a lack of viable top 6 prospects.


And the counter point is that all of our top 6 guys are already in the NHL. Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and to a lesser extent Talbot and Kennedy. I'd still like to know who has the plethora of top 6 wingers sitting in the AHL right now.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:55 pm

"If this is the case, then people also need to come to terms with the idea of NOT making a big-time trade for a higher-profile winger that could cost us another first-round pick.

People want high-ceiling players but in most "deep" drafts, these can't-miss, "high ceiling" players only last at most about the first 12, maybe 15 picks...and that's in a deep draft."


Spot on.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Pens15 on Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:09 pm

Stoosh wrote:
Pens15 wrote:You guys are missing the point. The complaints aren't because the guys are taking too long to get here. The complaints are because there is a perception that we don't have any prospects with high ceilings right now. It's a debatable point. Of all the forwards, Caputi might be the only one with top 6 potential, and he's far from a sure thing. A lot of people aren't very high on Villieux or Zabotel.

It would be huge if we could fill our winger void from within. But unfortunately there seems to be a lack of viable top 6 prospects.


If this is the case, then people also need to come to terms with the idea of NOT making a big-time trade for a higher-profile winger that could cost us another first-round pick.

People want high-ceiling players but in most "deep" drafts, these can't-miss, "high ceiling" players only last at most about the first 12, maybe 15 picks...and that's in a deep draft.


I agree with you on the point about making a big time trade.

Keep in mind that I'm not just talking about can't miss type of guys who go in the high rounds, but at least guys with top 6 potential. I see Caputi, and nothing else at this point. KV and CPZ would fit that profile as well, but from what I've read, they aren't looking that great, so for now at least, I don't count them.

I have nothing against guys like Strait and Sneep, but I would rather to have drafted some skilled wingers in those rounds instead.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby meecrofilm on Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:18 pm

Pens15 wrote:
Stoosh wrote:
Pens15 wrote:You guys are missing the point. The complaints aren't because the guys are taking too long to get here. The complaints are because there is a perception that we don't have any prospects with high ceilings right now. It's a debatable point. Of all the forwards, Caputi might be the only one with top 6 potential, and he's far from a sure thing. A lot of people aren't very high on Villieux or Zabotel.

It would be huge if we could fill our winger void from within. But unfortunately there seems to be a lack of viable top 6 prospects.


If this is the case, then people also need to come to terms with the idea of NOT making a big-time trade for a higher-profile winger that could cost us another first-round pick.

People want high-ceiling players but in most "deep" drafts, these can't-miss, "high ceiling" players only last at most about the first 12, maybe 15 picks...and that's in a deep draft.


I agree with you on the point about making a big time trade.

Keep in mind that I'm not just talking about can't miss type of guys who go in the high rounds, but at least guys with top 6 potential. I see Caputi, and nothing else at this point. KV and CPZ would fit that profile as well, but from what I've read, they aren't looking that great, so for now at least, I don't count them.

I have nothing against guys like Strait and Sneep, but I would rather to have drafted some skilled wingers in those rounds instead.


From what you've read?

KV, yes, but CPZ? What have you read recently that would make you think that? Is it the fact that he's currently putting up ridiculous numbers?
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Pens15 on Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:34 pm

meecrofilm wrote:
From what you've read?

KV, yes, but CPZ? What have you read recently that would make you think that? Is it the fact that he's currently putting up ridiculous numbers?


I've heard from a guy who lives in BC and has seen him play many times that CPZ is an over-ager in the W and when he watches him play he just doesn't see a future NHLer.

Sure it's just hearsay, nothing to put too much stock into.

Hopefully he'll be better than what that guy said. But for now I'm holding off putting much hope into any of these junior guys at least until they have some success in the A.

Even being optimistic, Caputi is the only guy who has a chance to crack our top 6 in the next 2 years. If guys like CPZ, KV, or Moon graduate to the A and have some success, then we can include them in our discussions.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:17 pm

Most of the Pens' core has been in the NHL for several years and is still not at its prime. Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and Letang are as young as or younger than a lot of top prospects either breaking in now or yet to break in. Fleury's still one of the youngest starting goalies in the NHL. Goligoski is a good prospect and just graduated to the NHL. That's why the Pens don't have a great farm system right now. It's common sense. They've been winning the last couple years and most of their high end picks before that got to the NHL quick. It's totally unreasonable to think that they should have a bunch of blue chippers waiting in the minors on top of all that. Their blue chippers have been in the NHL during the years that most good prospects would have been in minors or college.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby PensBeerGeek on Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:19 pm

Pens15 wrote:I have nothing against guys like Strait and Sneep, but I would rather to have drafted some skilled wingers in those rounds instead.


We got Salmonsson in the 2nd round...he was a skilled winger that was extremely brittle. If a skilled winger is left in the 2nd or 3rd round, then they're either ridiculously soft floaters or are 5'7".

Defense is a good position to build around, and Sneep and Strait (both of whom should seriously be in WB/S next year) were 2 good pickups to build that defensive depth.
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Re: PG Pen's Prospect Rating

Postby Noise on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:33 am

tombarrassorules wrote:ugh. none of these guys really blow anyone's mind.


:roll:

no

but they're guys that could be up in the next couple of years in complimentary roles on cheap contracts.
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