Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Why So Serious? on Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:32 pm

Henry Hank wrote:The worst part about that article is that it doesn't make one mention of Evgeni Malkin... you know, the guy who's running away with the scoring title. Apparently he's not even good enough to be in the discussion. :roll:


I was thinking the same thing. Is it because he doesn't score the flashy AO goals? Or is it once again Brooks' jealousy that gets in the way of the reality that Malkin is dominating the NHL and brings "it" every game? Or can it be that he refuses to accept the fact that Pittsburgh has the 2 best hockey players in the world? Give me a break. What a joke this guy is.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Marshall Dylan on Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:19 pm

Draftnik wrote: the Caps have zero fans so he can't get a population of zero to vote.



Pretty dumb statement, isn't it?
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby PensFanBryan on Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:56 pm

I actually dont disagree with most of the article. It is a mockery that Kovalev is gonna be # 3 starting forward over AO, Jeff Carter, even Thomas Vanek. Sid & Geno belong in the all-star starting lineup, but none of the Canadiens below Sid & Geno in voting deserve the All-Star start. That really is Brooks' arguement in this article, and you cant disagree with that.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Draftnik on Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:20 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote: the Caps have zero fans so he can't get a population of zero to vote.



Pretty dumb statement, isn't it?


AO's relatively meager vote totals speak volumes about the Caps lack of fan support. The Habs and Pens vote totals are inflated by their fans voting for their players, not some conspiratorial NHL marketing scheme to keep AO down as Brooks alleges.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Draftnik on Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:23 pm

PensFanBryan wrote:I actually dont disagree with most of the article. It is a mockery that Kovalev is gonna be # 3 starting forward over AO, Jeff Carter, even Thomas Vanek. Sid & Geno belong in the all-star starting lineup, but none of the Canadiens below Sid & Geno in voting deserve the All-Star start. That really is Brooks' arguement in this article, and you cant disagree with that.


NHL all star voting is a celebrity worship pop culture poll. If it had anything to do with choosing the best players for a meaningful game the fans wouldn't decide any spots. GMs and/or coaches pick the reserves so the roster isn't entirely comprised of fan favorites.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby penmyst on Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:08 am

Anybody that cares who plays in any allstar game in any of the major sports in today's era is being silly. I expect it a bit from old men, because they actually remember a time when the best players were in those games and those players actually played hard in their respective allstar games.

Secondly, Brooks doesn't mention Malkin because hey, why let facts get in the way of your incendiary statements? I mean, nobody would talk about your articles if they were simply rational thoughts and statements of facts.

Anyways, all this talk about who should be the "face of the NHL" etc is ridiculous and only exists in today's overhyped nonstop 24-7 media blitz sports infotainment world. I could not care less about any of these players OFF THE FIELD. I watch sports to enjoy ON THE FIELD. And THAT is where it will be determined who is the best and who becomes the best "face of the NHL".
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby ivand87 on Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:47 am

What a joke. Shots on goal matter? Give me a break. He starts off this article with the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Pathetic. So laughable.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:18 am

Crosby has a better all-time points per game rate compared to Ovechkin. Malkin's and Ovechkin's practically are equal. Crosby's is only bettered by Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, and Orr (Orr only slightly).

Crosby: 1.378
Ovechkin: 1.280
Malkin: 1.276

I think the SOG argument is incredibly stupid. SOGs really don't tell you anything. A SOG number doesn't tell you if they're good shots, it doesn't tell you if the shots lead to anything, it doesn't tell you if they're ultimately productive. Points obviously do. I'll agree that it means the guy typically has the puck on his stick, but here's something I never understood. Why is Ovechkin's goal scoring and shots totals always glorified in a way to make him the best, but Crosby's and Malkin's playmaking is brushed aside. I tend to think a guy is more valuable if he can score AND make his teammates better compared to a guy who strictly scores.

Hitting and goalscoring is more flashy so there will always be people saying Ovechkin is the best because of that even if Crosby and Malkin surpass him in points and championships. It's not different from when people said Lecavalier was the best player in the world right now because he scored some flashy goals and occasionally would drop the gloves.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:54 am

I'm not sure if Ovechkin has ever fought. I'm pretty sure he once boarded Briere and got a major for that.

The thing with Crosby is that he's the ultimate hockey player. He's supremely skilled but he's also got an unmatched work ethic. His intensity and passion are through the roof. He's the antithesis of a soft player; he initiates physicality. He has the mindset of a grinder with the skillset of an All-Star. It's sad that a significant portion of the NHL fanbase and media still wants to latch on to him being a baby and a whiner and a diver. Of course, we all know that jealousy is the real reason for that crap. People like to make the comparisons to Gretzky and Lemieux but Crosby will have his own legacy because he's a different player than those two.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby ivand87 on Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:57 am

Henry Hank - Ovechkin fought Mike Richards in his rookie season. It's on YouTube. He hasn't fought anyone since. But if you watch that fight, the Flyers were all over him and he got really pissed off, and it's almost as he was forced to fight Richards. The Crosby-Ference fight was a lot more of a fight than that AO-Richards.

tombarrassorules wrote:i get why people hate crosby. it is pretty annoying how much attention he gets. and he's kinda annoying on the ice. and he does always have that whiny look on his face after a call doesnt go his way.

but.

the NHL, at the time of crosby's crowning, didnt have much to stand on. a bunch of aging former stars (ie jagr, sundin etc). the hype coming from canada on crosby was so huge it only made sense for the league to capitalize on that.

i mean who cares. as a hockey fan and not as a homer fan boy (larry brooks) if the marketing scheme was a hotdog holding a hockey stick and that got people to pay attention to the league, then who cares. im just glad the league is still kicking and gaining popularity.

as for the ovechkin argument, ya the dude is flashier, scores more goals. whatev. im not one for the crosby ovechkin argument. but its tough to sell to north americans, and americans more specifically, the idea that the face of your league is a guy who can barely speak english. its hard to imagine that a guy who had yet to play a game on north american ice would be the centerpiece of the league. get over it. its called marketing. you're trying to sell a product overall, not who scores more points or flashier goals, or is the captain, or youngest, or who has better or worse wingers, blah blah blah.

also, people cry about crosby crying more than crosby cries.


Crosby doesn't cry. You've been talking to too many Crosby haters that you're starting to believe their crap. He complains to the refs - all players do it.

And remember. Anything Sid does gets scrutinized 20 times more than it would for any other star in this league. It's pathetic. And the hockey media refuses to acknowledge the ridiculous smearing and bashing by a lot of these dummies who go around everywhere calling Sid a crybaby and a diver, when there's maybe 2 or 3 video clips, all from 3 years ago, that could lead anyone to believe that he really is those things.

Despite his current slump, Crosby continues to work as hard any player in this league. He is a great captain and a role model to young hockey players everywhere. Period.

And as for the league marketing Sid more than Ovechkin, that's being blown way out of proportion. Over the past year Ovechkin has gotten plenty of commercials and a ton of coverage from the media. And even when both were rookies, Ovechkin starred in that commercial with Sid and got plenty of attention too.

Larry Brooks is simply another dumb biased Rangers fan who must hate all things Pittsburgh. So he's camouflaging his jealousy and hate for Sid by saying Ovechkin is OBVIOUSLY better, when better arguments can be made for both Crosby and Malkin being better than AO.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby ivand87 on Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:02 am

SOG is NOT like batting average. Shooting percentage is like batting average.

They don't keep track of passing and 1st assists. If they did Crosby would be ahead of AO on both.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Marshall Dylan on Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:17 am

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote: the Caps have zero fans so he can't get a population of zero to vote.



Pretty dumb statement, isn't it?


AO's relatively meager vote totals speak volumes about the Caps lack of fan support. The Habs and Pens vote totals are inflated by their fans voting for their players, not some conspiratorial NHL marketing scheme to keep AO down as Brooks alleges.


The "Caps have zero fans" is a silly statement.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Stoosh on Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:59 am

tombarrassorules wrote:
ivand87 wrote:SOG is NOT like batting average. Shooting percentage is like batting average.

They don't keep track of passing and 1st assists. If they did Crosby would be ahead of AO on both.


ya i know that mathematically its like shooting percentage. i just meant that they both mean very little, or account for very little in determining the value of a player.

also, a ton of crosby's points are secondary assists if i recall. i dont have a breakdown but im pretty sure ol doc mirtle had it all figured it out. kinda weak but they still count.

and admit, he does kinda whine. like in the buffalo OT game, when they were reviewing the call he came over and was babbling and point at his stick. its just junk like that.

plus on top of that after he wrecked that guy in atlanta the league didnt say anything about it. he kinda gets away with stuff and then moans about offsides calls.

love the guy, glad hes on the pens, but i dont blame people who hate him. i just largely overlook it.


Not directed at you, TBR, but I wonder if anyone ever tried to discount the goals scored by Gretzky, Howe and Lemieux by trying to figure out how many of them were empty net goals.

In fact, I seem to recall Gretzky was asked if he knew how many of his career goals were fired into an empty net, and he basically said they count just as much as goals scored, so he couldn't figure out why it was an issue. The NHL scoring system allows for a point to be given for a primary and secondary assist, so if Sid's point totals are thus inflated, blame the scoring system and not Sid. Every other player in the league benefits from the same system.

In the Buffalo game, he said after the fact that he came over to the officials to get clarification on the rule. He was telling the officials that he knew his back hand may have been above the crossbar and he was simply asking them for clarification purposes. He wasn't lobbying for a call.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby superconan on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:18 am

tombarrassorules wrote:also, a ton of crosby's points are secondary assists if i recall. i dont have a breakdown but im pretty sure ol doc mirtle had it all figured it out. kinda weak but they still count.


Last year - Crosby 1.49 primary assists per 60 minutes and 0.47 second assists per 60 minutes. His 1.49 was the highest in the league.

This year - Crosby is at 0.34 for second assists, and Marc Savard is at 1.09.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:21 am

Last year - Crosby 1.49 primary assists per 60 minutes and 0.47 second assists per 60 minutes. His 1.49 was the highest in the league.

This year - Crosby is at 0.34 for second assists, and Marc Savard is at 1.09.


LOL! Funny what the numbers do to one of the "best" arguments the jealous Crosby haters have always had. Not that it really matters anyway. Sometimes secondary assists are kind of cheap, but there are plenty of times that plays were made on the secondary assists that were absolutely vital to the goal being scored.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:23 am

If the NHL was smart they would do some funny Crosby + AO commercials. Hire the guys who do the Apple ads.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby superconan on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:29 am

Henry Hank wrote:LOL! Funny what the numbers do to one of the "best" arguments the jealous Crosby haters have always had. Not that it really matters anyway. Sometimes secondary assists are kind of cheap, but there are plenty of times that plays were made on the secondary assists that were absolutely vital to the goal being scored.


To add to that, those numbers are including PP time, which raises Crosby's second assist numbers. Mirtle had Crosby at 0.26 for second assists when it is 5 on 5 per 60 minutes.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby beerman on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:34 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:If the NHL was smart they would do some funny Crosby + AO commercials. Hire the guys who do the Apple ads.


That would be a great idea, the commercial a few years back when AO pranked Sid by ordering all the room service was awesome.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby penny lane on Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:03 pm

beerman wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:If the NHL was smart they would do some funny Crosby + AO commercials. Hire the guys who do the Apple ads.


That would be a great idea, the commercial a few years back when AO pranked Sid by ordering all the room service was awesome.


Sidney a mediator between Gino and AO. :P

This would be great, if all parties now, will play hockey as intended & not go head-hunting when caps/pens meet.
;)
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:05 pm

cs6687 wrote:http://www.nypost.com/seven/12282008/sports/moresports/nhl_eclipsing_brightest_star_146182.htm


Please. Ovechkin's playing with Semin and Backstrom, both point-per-game players. Even when Semin's injured, he still has better linemates than Crosby (I think Kozlov gets moved to that spot). Anyway, give Crosby Hossa back and another PPG player and I bet he's at the top of the scoring list.

While I think Dupuis is a very good hockey player, he has no business playing on a scoring line. And Satan is a non-factor 5 on 5. I think he's done, considering he doesn't contribute anything else (aggressive play, etc.). Crosby's forced to drag two iron balls behind his feet with those two, basically. If there is a reason for his recent poor play (did great the last game), that has to be it. At some point, Shero's going to have to get his head out of his ass and rectify this situation.

Larry Brooks picked a good time to slam Crosby, but he obviously did that out of spite. Or continued jealousy.
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Re: Larry Brooks: NHL screwed up by over-marketing Crosby

Postby 71 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:41 am

Henry Hank wrote:The worst part about that article is that it doesn't make one mention of Evgeni Malkin... you know, the guy who's running away with the scoring title. Apparently he's not even good enough to be in the discussion. :roll:


Geno doesn't wear a cool tinted visor, speak English fluently, play in New York, or score clutch goals like Chris Drury so he obviously isn't in the conversation. :roll: For all the complaining about Sid being over-marketed I think it's just as bad with Ovechkin. The guy can really shoot and he loves to hit people which makes him fun to watch, but he has no concept of how to play in his own zone and the only time he looks to pass is when he can't get a shot on net. For me he's Pavel Bure with a mean streak, which makes him a great player but no better than Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Lidstrom, Brodeur, etc. By the way I didn't realize it only took Gretzky 369 shots to score 92 goals in 1982, that is really amazing.
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