Don't look now

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Re: Don't look now

Postby KG on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:39 pm

DelPen wrote:When the Pens slump Malkin is still finding away to pick up a couple points. when we are winning and the PP is clicking he's picking up 4 points. Malkin is going to win the scoring title this year.


I agree with this. Although I think that if Gonchar was in the lineup he would have taken away a lot of Malkin's assits from the point position..
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Re: Don't look now

Postby brwi on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:23 am

Bathgate wrote:Ovechkin is coming on like gangbusters and will win the scoring title unless Malkin and Crosby start scoring more GOALS.


How's that? Goals don't count any more than assists, and considering that Sid and Malkin are centers, they are going to have more assists than goals like most centers do. Maybe a better point would be if their wingers don't score goals, neither Sid or Malkin will win the scoring title.

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Re: Don't look now

Postby 71 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:26 am

holeinone wrote:If Ovie didn't go back to Russia to be with his grandfather he would be ahead or a lot closer to Geno. Ovie is a beast of a player and don't kid yourself about it. He can do much more than Sid and is a pure goal scorer. And that my friends is one thing the Sid will never be.


In the month of December:

Ovechkin GP 13 PTS 19 PP 10
Malkin GP 13 PTS 20 PP 5

If Malkin keeps up his current scoring pace Ovechkin would have to average 2 points a game for the rest of the year to overtake Geno. Barring injury, Malkin is going to win the scoring title and it's more likely to be by a wide margin, like by 20 PTS, than it is to be by a close one.

Malkin has easily been the best player in the NHL this season. He leads the league in scoring, his 39 even strength points is the most in the NHL by a large margin, his +22 is tied for 2nd, and he is on pace to become only the 4th player in history to record 100 assists joining Lemieux, Gretzky, and Orr. Ovy is very talented, he scores a lot of goals and loves to hit people, but those are the only two parts of his game that aren't vastly inferior to Malkin.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby scals37 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:31 am

Lemieux was better than Gretzky...... =)
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Re: Don't look now

Postby holeinone on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:17 am

That is what I said Ovie is a goal scorer and Sid isn't and never will be. He is a good player but if Ovie was here and Sid was in Washington, things would be the exact opposite. We would be saying that Ovie was better. That is the way it is. But if you look at it without the rose colored glasses, Ovie is better than Sid and that will prove out as the years go by. Btw Malkin is better than both of them
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Re: Don't look now

Postby SolidSnake on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:58 am

holeinone wrote:That is what I said Ovie is a goal scorer and Sid isn't and never will be. He is a good player but if Ovie was here and Sid was in Washington, things would be the exact opposite. We would be saying that Ovie was better. That is the way it is. But if you look at it without the rose colored glasses, Ovie is better than Sid and that will prove out as the years go by. Btw Malkin is better than both of them



So Ovie is better because he's more of a goal scorer? :shock: Wow, what about all the other important things?
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Easton on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:38 am

This thread is stupid, and I only read the first and fourth page.

I wonder, though, when the Penguins start playing better and Malkin increases his point lead on Ovechkin even more than it is now -- where will The Current One be then? He only comes out of hiding when times are bad, or in this case, to stir the pot.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Easton on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:38 am

SolidSnake wrote:
holeinone wrote:That is what I said Ovie is a goal scorer and Sid isn't and never will be. He is a good player but if Ovie was here and Sid was in Washington, things would be the exact opposite. We would be saying that Ovie was better. That is the way it is. But if you look at it without the rose colored glasses, Ovie is better than Sid and that will prove out as the years go by. Btw Malkin is better than both of them



So Ovie is better because he's more of a goal scorer? :shock: Wow, what about all the other important things?


Other important things? Sorry, Ovie shoots more and scores more, therefore he's better. There are no other important things.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Psychlone on Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:04 am

To me the thing that separates AO from Malkin and Crosby is not just his goal scoring ability but his physical play. He is 4th in the league in hits people, wake up. He is a great goal scorer, a decent passer, and a ferocious hitter which makes him the all-around best offensive player in the league IMO.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:40 pm

Psychlone wrote:To me the thing that separates AO from Malkin and Crosby is not just his goal scoring ability but his physical play. He is 4th in the league in hits people, wake up. He is a great goal scorer, a decent passer, and a ferocious hitter which makes him the all-around best offensive player in the league IMO.


Key words: "Best all-around offensive player in the league."

The true definition of being the best in the game is to be a great all-around 2-way hockey player. And let's face it, Ovechkin is a floater in the defensive zone. Malkin and Crosby are absolute horses in the defensive zone and they are at the same time very dynamic in the offensive game as well.

Malkin > Ovechkin
Crosby > Ovechkin
Malkin > Ovechkin and Crosby
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Re: Don't look now

Postby pensfannn on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:43 pm

It's surprising that OV is so far behind in the All Star voting.

Throw the guy a vote!
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:44 pm

pensfannn wrote:It's surprising that OV is so far behind in the All Star voting.

Throw the guy a vote!


....or don't.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby pensfannn on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:49 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
pensfannn wrote:It's surprising that OV is so far behind in the All Star voting.

Throw the guy a vote!


....or don't.


So your Eastern Conference forward picks would be.... ??
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Re: Don't look now

Postby steelhammer on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:50 pm

someone needs to let the people who track the stats know that OV is the best offensive player so they can update the points totals.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby pensfannn on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:50 pm

???
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:57 pm

pensfannn wrote:
Why So Serious? wrote:
pensfannn wrote:It's surprising that OV is so far behind in the All Star voting.

Throw the guy a vote!


....or don't.


So your Eastern Conference forward picks would be.... ??


Malkin, Crosby, and then I usually just write-in Jordan Staal or whichever other Penguin I feel like writing in on that particular day.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby pensfannn on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:58 pm

And then Gonchar and Whitney on D, and MAF in net?
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:08 pm

pensfannn wrote:And then Gonchar and Whitney on D, and MAF in net?


Yep. And sometimes I write-in Letang and Goligoski.

Anymore questions of which players I vote in to the All-Star Game?
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:10 pm

ZenPenguin wrote:What has AO done that makes him better than Malkin? I'm not talking about "highlight reel goals" or that "he hits", either. I'm talking about the overall game, which includes penalty killing, powerplay, goals, assists, making your teammates better, and :shock: DEFENSIVE :shock: play. Malkin has been the better player this year, no doubt. AO plays with Semin, Backstrom, etc and also some great offensive Dmen. If you think Malkin hasn't been better then you are nuts.


Exactly.

Paraphrasing what I said earlier, it takes playing 2-way hockey to be considered the best in the game. And both Malkin and Crosby are so many year ahead of Ovechkin when it comes to being defensively aware. Ovechkin is all about himself, loves to put up individual points. He's a helluva player, but he is nowhere near the defensive stalwarts and team players 87 and 71 are. That is what separates the good players from the great players.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby pensfannn on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:17 pm

Nope.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby superconan on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:30 pm

ZenPenguin wrote:Gretzky and Lemieux where beasts out there, too :roll:


When Gretzky came in to the league and started putting up crazy numbers, there was still the best player argument. It was between Gretzky and Trottier, because of Trottier's all around play.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Psychlone on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:45 pm

AO wasn't drafted to play defensive hockey and neither were Malkin and Crosby. If you are going to include that part of the game into the equation as to who is the best player in hockey then half the Detroit Redwings team would probably qualify for being both tremendously gifted offensive and defensive players.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:18 pm

Psychlone wrote:AO wasn't drafted to play defensive hockey and neither were Malkin and Crosby. If you are going to include that part of the game into the equation as to who is the best player in hockey then half the Detroit Redwings team would probably qualify for being both tremendously gifted offensive and defensive players.


Wowww... :shock:

That is some narrow-minded thinking you have there.

All players are drafted to play 2-way hockey. Hockey isn't about putting up numbers, it's about playing multi-faceted roles in order to win the Cup. Even if you are drafted to be an offensive threat, to be the game's best, you have to learn and equip yourself to be good in the defensive zone. As for your Detroit statement...

None of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Hossa are as dynamic and explosive as Crosby and Malkin. But they are just as good, if not, better, than 71 and 87 defensively. That's not a knock on Sid and Geno, rather a compliment to Hossa, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. At the same time, their offensive game isn't as good and complete as Malkin and Crosby's. Yet you can make a strong case for all three of them being top world-class hockey players.

Going by the way you judge who the best players in the world are...I guess Nick Lidstrom isn't even one of the best players in the world. It's a terrible way of looking at who the best player is...it's not always about goals and points, there are other things to look at that don't necessarily show up on the stat sheet all the time.

Oh, and by the way, Malkin is a +22 this season...just sayin'.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Psychlone on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:05 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
Psychlone wrote:AO wasn't drafted to play defensive hockey and neither were Malkin and Crosby. If you are going to include that part of the game into the equation as to who is the best player in hockey then half the Detroit Redwings team would probably qualify for being both tremendously gifted offensive and defensive players.


Wowww... :shock:

That is some narrow-minded thinking you have there.

All players are drafted to play 2-way hockey. Hockey isn't about putting up numbers, it's about playing multi-faceted roles in order to win the Cup. Even if you are drafted to be an offensive threat, to be the game's best, you have to learn and equip yourself to be good in the defensive zone. As for your Detroit statement...

None of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Hossa are as dynamic and explosive as Crosby and Malkin. But they are just as good, if not, better, than 71 and 87 defensively. That's not a knock on Sid and Geno, rather a compliment to Hossa, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. At the same time, their offensive game isn't as good and complete as Malkin and Crosby's. Yet you can make a strong case for all three of them being top world-class hockey players.

Going by the way you judge who the best players in the world are...I guess Nick Lidstrom isn't even one of the best players in the world. It's a terrible way of looking at who the best player is...it's not always about goals and points, there are other things to look at that don't necessarily show up on the stat sheet all the time.

Oh, and by the way, Malkin is a +22 this season...just sayin'.


I'm not saying that defensive hockey is not important and sure it's an added bonus if a star player has defensive skills. You state that all players are drafted to play two way hockey so I guess that means Max Talbot could potentially be a 50 goal scorer right? Look, all players have certain facets of their game that they are better in, are you honestly trying to convince me that Alexander Yashin was drafted to become a future Selke winner? Are Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky in the Hall of Fame for their defensive prowess? *laughs*

As for your comment about Nick Lidstrom he is phenomenal in both ends but *surprise surprise* is also one of the best offensive D-man in the league so by both our standards he would be considered one of the best.

Take a look at other sports, sure Michael Jordan could play some mean D when he had to but was that his bread and butter? Was his shot blocking what made people pay some of their hard earned money to watch him every night?

Sorry man but your argument is just not very convincing.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:07 pm

...but there's a hurricane blowing through?
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