Don't look now

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Re: Don't look now

Postby penny lane on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:14 pm

That's what separates him from Crosby - he can dominate a game all by himself, while Sid cannot. Geno is actually closer to Ovechkin in that respect, but still not at that level.


Like all NHL players, sooner or later it is about team success. If Ovechkin can get the caps past the pens in a series, I'll give AO the nod.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby pfim on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:17 pm

Take a look at other sports, sure Michael Jordan could play some mean D when he had to but was that his bread and butter? Was his shot blocking what made people pay some of their hard earned money to watch him every night?


No, but it's what won him championships and what seperated him from lesser players.

He was on the NBA All Defensive team for 9 straight seasons and was the defensive player of the year in the late 80s.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Psychlone on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:33 pm

pfim wrote:
Take a look at other sports, sure Michael Jordan could play some mean D when he had to but was that his bread and butter? Was his shot blocking what made people pay some of their hard earned money to watch him every night?


No, but it's what won him championships and what seperated him from lesser players.

He was on the NBA All Defensive team for 9 straight seasons and was the defensive player of the year in the late 80s.



All good points related to Jordan however I still contend his offensive skills are what got him into the Hall.
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Re: Don't look now

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:43 pm

Psychlone wrote:
Why So Serious? wrote:
Psychlone wrote:AO wasn't drafted to play defensive hockey and neither were Malkin and Crosby. If you are going to include that part of the game into the equation as to who is the best player in hockey then half the Detroit Redwings team would probably qualify for being both tremendously gifted offensive and defensive players.


Wowww... :shock:

That is some narrow-minded thinking you have there.

All players are drafted to play 2-way hockey. Hockey isn't about putting up numbers, it's about playing multi-faceted roles in order to win the Cup. Even if you are drafted to be an offensive threat, to be the game's best, you have to learn and equip yourself to be good in the defensive zone. As for your Detroit statement...

None of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Hossa are as dynamic and explosive as Crosby and Malkin. But they are just as good, if not, better, than 71 and 87 defensively. That's not a knock on Sid and Geno, rather a compliment to Hossa, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. At the same time, their offensive game isn't as good and complete as Malkin and Crosby's. Yet you can make a strong case for all three of them being top world-class hockey players.

Going by the way you judge who the best players in the world are...I guess Nick Lidstrom isn't even one of the best players in the world. It's a terrible way of looking at who the best player is...it's not always about goals and points, there are other things to look at that don't necessarily show up on the stat sheet all the time.

Oh, and by the way, Malkin is a +22 this season...just sayin'.


I'm not saying that defensive hockey is not important and sure it's an added bonus if a star player has defensive skills. You state that all players are drafted to play two way hockey so I guess that means Max Talbot could potentially be a 50 goal scorer right? Look, all players have certain facets of their game that they are better in, are you honestly trying to convince me that Alexander Yashin was drafted to become a future Selke winner? Are Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky in the Hall of Fame for their defensive prowess? *laughs*

As for your comment about Nick Lidstrom he is phenomenal in both ends but *surprise surprise* is also one of the best offensive D-man in the league so by both our standards he would be considered one of the best.

Take a look at other sports, sure Michael Jordan could play some mean D when he had to but was that his bread and butter? Was his shot blocking what made people pay some of their hard earned money to watch him every night?

Sorry man but your argument is just not very convincing.


You bring up some good points, but sticking to the situation at hand...

Ovechkin is not as good as Malkin and Crosby because of their ability to play defense. You are judging all three simply from the offensive point of view. I'm judging them from the 2-way hockey point of view. You're doing a major disservice to Sid and Geno by talking offense only. Sure Ovechkin is the more prolific scorer of the 3, no questions...but when looking at all-around ability, Sid and Geno take it by a landslide. It's not fair to talk only offense when judging all 3 players. When judging the game's best, one has to look past just the numbers and look at other parts of a player's game. And in this instance:

Playing solid offensively and defensively >>>>>> Playing solid only offensively.

That's all.
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