good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby DelPen on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:00 pm

Looking ahead to next year, if Staal can be moved to wing and is succesful we could see this:

Staal-Crosby-Kennedy
Dupuis-Malkin-Sykora
Cooke-Talbot-Wallace
Caputi-Zigomanis-Godard

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Whitney
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury-Curry

Should be a very cap freindly roster that will allow for a lot of movement during the season and at the deadline in 2010.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby E 14 Hornblower on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:07 pm

joker10277 wrote:
E 14 Hornblower wrote:Just one question for the people wanting to let Staal walk with the offer sheet? How do you plan on signing these 4 1st round draft picks and keep them under the cap?


First : there is a cap on first contracts.

Second: the picks would be spread out over 4 years.

Third: they would have to make the nhl first to count against the cap.



Good accurate points but a team that will send Staal the offer sheet will more than likely be bottom of the barrel where the player picked will be Stamkos/Tavares type plus remember we have our 1st rounders too. Yes these picks can be dealable also. I understandwhere your getting @ but last year RS and ML have made it verry clear that the cup is so close they can taste it hence the Hossa deadline deal and the attempt to sign him last off season. The evolution has evolved we are buyers not sellers anymore. Like it said in the article people snapped when Zalapski and Cullen left, but nobody had a problem with it when Ron Francis was passing the cup to Ulf Sameulson, but thats just my opinion. Like I said in past threads I have faith in Shero he will do whats needed to deliver.
Last edited by E 14 Hornblower on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:14 pm

pcm wrote:If we're looking at Colorado, Wolski is a much better option than Hejduk. He's young, big, got nice hands and rather than being on the downside of his career, can develop with the team.


They wouldn't give him up.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Pitts on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:28 pm

jmh470 wrote:The timing of Staal's ... He will become an absolute beast of a player,

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that about a player, I'd be a rich man. You simply do not know exactly what he will become. Fact is, his value is currently very high. High enough to get that scoring winger everyone has cried for for 3 years now.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby kovyman1127 on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:40 pm

Pitts wrote:
jmh470 wrote:The timing of Staal's ... He will become an absolute beast of a player,

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that about a player, I'd be a rich man. You simply do not know exactly what he will become. Fact is, his value is currently very high. High enough to get that scoring winger everyone has cried for for 3 years now.


Yeah....what this team "needs" to win the cup is a scoring winger...I would rather be a cup winner in 2-3 years than be a playoff contendor every year for the next 7. Staal can't provide that...no matter if he plays wing with Sid or not. He doesn't have the tools (i.e. hands, vision, etc) to play with Sid. All of you who think that Staal is the "missing peice" of the Sid winger problem is a joke. If he had the skills to be on the top line...he would have been there already. Lets not forget...Staal wasn't exactly known for his hands and finishing ability in Junior...he isn't going to develop that even though he's never been a noted goal scorer in his life.

With that said, strike while the iron is hot!!! We have an overabundance of skilled D, and an overrated (and a soon to be overpaid) 3rd line center. I agree though...no more "rent a player/Hossa" types.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Doogs on Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:58 pm

At this point if we are in a discussion that starts with losing Staal and one of our puck moving D-men, then stop hedging your bets and call Wadell and get Kovalchuk and (yeah I'll say it AGAIN), Army. Kovalchuck has another year left and Army can bang the boards on the 3rd line with Max T as his center.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:13 pm

Doogs wrote:At this point if we are in a discussion that starts with losing Staal and one of our puck moving D-men, then stop hedging your bets and call Wadell and get Kovalchuk and (yeah I'll say it AGAIN), Army. Kovalchuck has another year left and Army can bang the boards on the 3rd line with Max T as his center.

Care to explain where we are getting the cap room?
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Doogs on Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:23 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
Doogs wrote:At this point if we are in a discussion that starts with losing Staal and one of our puck moving D-men, then stop hedging your bets and call Wadell and get Kovalchuk and (yeah I'll say it AGAIN), Army. Kovalchuck has another year left and Army can bang the boards on the 3rd line with Max T as his center.

Care to explain where we are getting the cap room?


I just saw that Colby makes 1.2 and Kovalchuk makes 7.5. So I got nothing. Sounds good though...doesn't it?
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby knives of ice on Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:53 pm

joker10277 wrote:
purelebo84 wrote:
meecrofilm wrote:I'd hit up Staal, Gogo, and a 2nd for Brad Boyes. But I don't think that one'll happen.

Or,

Staal and a 2nd for Brad Boyes.


I think you guys are underestimating the value staal has to a team that doesn't have sid and geno as their top centers. Staal alone should bring back Boyes plus Picks or players. Remember Boyes was traded for Wideman.



it still hurts that the pens could have definitely gotten boyes at the deadline and made that deal. boyes had already shown chemistry with sid. man, that still stings.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Daniel on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:05 am

Sarcastic wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Why trade Staal for a winger when you can give up a #1, #2 and/or prospect for a great winger?


Because we have a salary cap. Would I like to have Staal centering the 3rd? Sure, why not (from the hockey standpoint). But not if it means having Crosby having to struggle with mediocre wingers.


Don't you think the winger for Crosby will make at least as much as Staal? Plus, I would like to see what winger we can get, that isn't a top end salary, that is better than Staal. If a winger was that good, he is either too young for a big payoff or won't be traded.

I just see no long term advantage in trading Staal.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby kovyman1127 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:29 am

Don't you think the winger for Crosby will make at least as much as Staal?


It's all about what you value more. Would you trade Hossa for Staal if you could fit Hossa under our cap (even though you pay him more) and have a less expensive player play a 3rd line center position which are more readily available than a scoring winger?

Hell yes!!!
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:03 am

kovyman1127 wrote:
Don't you think the winger for Crosby will make at least as much as Staal?


It's all about what you value more. Would you trade Hossa for Staal if you could fit Hossa under our cap (even though you pay him more) and have a less expensive player play a 3rd line center position which are more readily available than a scoring winger?

Hell yes!!!


Yeah, but to do that doesn't just mean moving Staal. It means moving Staal + other salaries to make room for Hossa, i.e. Whitney, etc.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby brwi on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:03 am

I have to agree with Madden that 3 centers are one more than you need when the first two are Sid and Malkin and the present wingers not up to where you'd like. I don't see Staal even possibly getting moved until the trade deadline arrives and some teams are definitely out of the picture. One of the young guns on D might be what some GMs want more than Staal for that matter. Or a blockbuster like Staal + Gologoski leaving and ??? coming back. A rebuilding team could do a lot worse than 20 year old Staal at center and the still young and offensively-skilled Goligoski.

Kovalchuk may be serious about not wanting to leave Atlanta and I don't see even Waddell trading him without getting very proven scoring back in return. He already took the bait from RS last year of "future scoring" with Esposito and a #1 pick this year. don't see him doing that again...he'll want player(s) that can score NOW.

Ottawa could be dealing, but Heatley is going to make 10mil next year and be impossible for the Pens to afford. Very slim on wing if you consider that Alfredsson likely ain't going anywhere.

Hedjuk in colorado would be a 4mil hit next year. Pretty damn good player who'd fit great on the Pens. Avs fit the profile of a team needing to re-tool also.

Brad
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby kovyman1127 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:21 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:
kovyman1127 wrote:
Don't you think the winger for Crosby will make at least as much as Staal?


It's all about what you value more. Would you trade Hossa for Staal if you could fit Hossa under our cap (even though you pay him more) and have a less expensive player play a 3rd line center position which are more readily available than a scoring winger?

Hell yes!!!


Yeah, but to do that doesn't just mean moving Staal. It means moving Staal + other salaries to make room for Hossa, i.e. Whitney, etc.


Ummm....yeah....again, its all what you value. 3rd line center isn't value.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:23 am

kovyman1127 wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Yeah, but to do that doesn't just mean moving Staal. It means moving Staal + other salaries to make room for Hossa, i.e. Whitney, etc.


Ummm....yeah....again, its all what you value. 3rd line center isn't value.


At the cost of giving up other players of impact at other positions due to the salary cap...
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Mongoose87 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:44 am

I am hereby motioning that, in light of the strength of his play, when compared to our other defensemen, Whitney be stricken from the list of trade baits.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby CKA24 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:07 am

Remember all: a player's cap hit is PRORATED; therefore, we only get hit with the last bit of the season's hit, not the full hit.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby doublewinder on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:49 am

What wingers are available?

I would trade Staal FOR a young winger who can mesh with Sid.
I would not trade him for a rental, an older veteran, or someone without grit (St. Louis).

I don't know anybody like that available.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Sams_Dog on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:26 pm

He hits the nail right on the head. It's obvious that the Pens are going to have to parlay their depth at center and/or defense into a winger or two.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:32 pm

DelPen wrote:Looking ahead to next year, if Staal can be moved to wing and is succesful we could see this:

Staal-Crosby-Kennedy
Dupuis-Malkin-Sykora
Cooke-Talbot-Wallace
Caputi-Zigomanis-Godard

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Whitney
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury-Curry

Should be a very cap freindly roster that will allow for a lot of movement during the season and at the deadline in 2010.


I like it...but where's Scuderi? I'd put him in over Eaton, even as much as I like Eaton.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby KG on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:35 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
DelPen wrote:Looking ahead to next year, if Staal can be moved to wing and is succesful we could see this:

Staal-Crosby-Kennedy
Dupuis-Malkin-Sykora
Cooke-Talbot-Wallace
Caputi-Zigomanis-Godard

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Whitney
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury-Curry

Should be a very cap freindly roster that will allow for a lot of movement during the season and at the deadline in 2010.


I like it...but where's Scuderi? I'd put him in over Eaton, even as much as I like Eaton.


Scuderi is a pending UFA, those are the guys that are under the contract, or at least under the teams control next year...
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:36 pm

KG wrote:
Why So Serious? wrote:
DelPen wrote:Looking ahead to next year, if Staal can be moved to wing and is succesful we could see this:

Staal-Crosby-Kennedy
Dupuis-Malkin-Sykora
Cooke-Talbot-Wallace
Caputi-Zigomanis-Godard

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Whitney
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury-Curry

Should be a very cap freindly roster that will allow for a lot of movement during the season and at the deadline in 2010.


I like it...but where's Scuderi? I'd put him in over Eaton, even as much as I like Eaton.


Scuderi is a pending UFA, those are the guys that are under the contract, or at least under the teams control next year...


That's true...but I would certainly hope Shero brings him back. So I was just assuming he would be brought back in.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:50 pm

Madden is completely dead on in his article.
We NEED a winger for Crosby, maybe for Malkin too.

Why cant we trade Staal, Whitney/Gogo, prospect, draft pick...deal similar to last year...for a Kovalchuk type player??
Trade some of our other defensemen for a winger for Geno. Doesnt have to be a great winger, but somebody he can work with.

Our current wingers arent the answer. Satan is the biggest disappointment of the year. Sykora is decent...Dupuis is playing well but I dont see him being the man for the rest of the year. Fedotenko has stepped up his game but he isnt anywhere near talented enough to put up the kind of points we need.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby Why So Serious? on Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:47 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:Madden is completely dead on in his article.
We NEED a winger for Crosby, maybe for Malkin too.

Why cant we trade Staal, Whitney/Gogo, prospect, draft pick...deal similar to last year...for a Kovalchuk type player??
Trade some of our other defensemen for a winger for Geno. Doesnt have to be a great winger, but somebody he can work with.

Our current wingers arent the answer. Satan is the biggest disappointment of the year. Sykora is decent...Dupuis is playing well but I dont see him being the man for the rest of the year. Fedotenko has stepped up his game but he isnt anywhere near talented enough to put up the kind of points we need.


Malkin doesn't NEED wingers...he works well with anyone he's playing with.
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Re: good article from Mark Madden on Pens wing situation

Postby purelebo84 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:19 pm

DelPen wrote:Looking ahead to next year, if Staal can be moved to wing and is succesful we could see this:

Staal-Crosby-Kennedy
Dupuis-Malkin-Sykora
Cooke-Talbot-Wallace
Caputi-Zigomanis-Godard

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Whitney
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury-Curry

Should be a very cap freindly roster that will allow for a lot of movement during the season and at the deadline in 2010.

Or, the Penguins could sign Johan Franzen.

Wing issues = solved.
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