Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby pfim on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:34 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I hate the title of '3rd line center'. The kid is playing over 20 minutes a game.


But he still is the 3rd line center. It is what it is regardless of his ice time.

What are other teams paying their 3rd line centers?


How many third line centers are getting 20 minutes a game?
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Pitts on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:34 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I can't wait to see what kovymann says about this. :pop:

He only comes out at night.

That's actually kind of true.

Whodini wrote a song about him way back in the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DcdjW4z2_k
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Henry Hank on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:34 pm

Staal's role will only increase. Regardless of his place on ES lines, he gets third most ice time among forwards. That's all that really matters. But regardless of that, he's not going to remain on a 3rd line for life. Number one, there's still never been any logic in the group think about what his position can be. When he was a rookie and scoring 29 goals, mostly as a wing, just about everyone agreed that he should be a winger and didn't have the play-making ability to play center. Somewhere along the line, it was determined that he can't play wing and must stay at center. I've still yet to here a logical explanation for any of that.

I believe next year either he'll be on the wing on the top two lines or he'll center one and they'll match up Crosby and Malkin in lieu of getting a better winger.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Kicksave on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:34 pm

MicP wrote:
Kicksave wrote:
Nice. I'm glad I picked Staal in pick-a-pen. Dude is going to go off tonight with the new contract.

yep - just like Talbot.


Shut it. :pop: :lol:
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby pfim on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:35 pm

Number Nine wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I hate the title of '3rd line center'. The kid is playing over 20 minutes a game.


But he still is the 3rd line center. It is what it is regardless of his ice time.

What are other teams paying their 3rd line centers?


The current best 3rd line center in the league, John Madden is making less than $3 million.


And he plays 4 less minutes per game. A label is just that, a label. Nothing more.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby tperko on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:36 pm

how do you show your face on a message board.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby SoupOrSam on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:36 pm

maudineormsby wrote:Interesting quote from the TRIB:

"Jordan made no secret he wanted to remain a Penguins," Krepelka said. "The reason this didn't get done in the summer was he wanted to see where he fit. Now, Jordan has no complaints how he's being used. Once that became clear, that he would be used as more than just a No. 3 center, we wanted to get the deal done."


So that throws out the I HATE MT theory if nothing else.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Number Nine on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:36 pm

pfim wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I hate the title of '3rd line center'. The kid is playing over 20 minutes a game.


But he still is the 3rd line center. It is what it is regardless of his ice time.

What are other teams paying their 3rd line centers?


How many third line centers are getting 20 minutes a game?


More than you think. Most top teir 3rd line centers that are playing against other teams top lines will average between 17 and 21 minutes of ice time.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Rocco on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:36 pm

So is there any chance that Staal could use some of that new money on instructional tapes to teach him how to pass? Or is this money all going to the bars in Station Square?
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:37 pm

maudineormsby wrote:
The U wrote:Anyone in favor of this extension better never show their faces in the ACQUIRE A WINGER!!! threads.


Doesn't every thread eventually turn into a FIRE MT, trade player X, acquire a scoring winger from crosby thread anway?
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:38 pm

Kicksave wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I hate the title of '3rd line center'. The kid is playing over 20 minutes a game.


But he still is the 3rd line center. It is what it is regardless of his ice time.

What are other teams paying their 3rd line centers?


No. It's not. But if you aren't able to comprehend this, that's okay too.


Maybe you aren't comprehending what I'm saying. :roll:
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby maudineormsby on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:38 pm

SoupOrSam wrote:
maudineormsby wrote:Interesting quote from the TRIB:

"Jordan made no secret he wanted to remain a Penguins," Krepelka said. "The reason this didn't get done in the summer was he wanted to see where he fit. Now, Jordan has no complaints how he's being used. Once that became clear, that he would be used as more than just a No. 3 center, we wanted to get the deal done."


So that throws out the I HATE MT theory if nothing else.


Definitely.

Also, someone pointed out that we could have Staal center a second line and have Malkin and Crosby together in leiu of a better winger. I honestly think we could do this without becoming one dimensional.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby PensBeerGeek on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:39 pm

The U wrote:Anyone in favor of this extension better never show their faces in the ACQUIRE A WINGER!!! threads. If you're paying 4 million to a 3rd liner, you can't afford to bring in line 1 wingers. Real line 1 wingers...not Satan-clones. I like Staal but not at 4 mil. I can think of about 15 other 3rd line centers we could sign for about 1 million-2 million who would bring the same stuff as Staal would to the team.

I don't think Staal's speed, hitting, mean streak, play-making, or goal scoring will improve. He's a defensive center right now and I don't see that changing. Those types of guys can be grabbed each and every offseason for a fraction of the cost.


Trust me, I won't.

I like strength down the middle....good centers make mediocre wingers a lot better than good wingers make mediocre centers.

Go Jordan!
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby newarenanow on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:39 pm

The U wrote:well there go our 4 First Round Draft Picks if he had left via RFA


He'd have to sign a contract for over $6 or 7 M per year for those four picks.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Paekman on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:40 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Staal's role will only increase. Regardless of his place on ES lines, he gets third most ice time among forwards. That's all that really matters. But regardless of that, he's not going to remain on a 3rd line for life. Number one, there's still never been any logic in the group think about what his position can be. When he was a rookie and scoring 29 goals, mostly as a wing, just about everyone agreed that he should be a winger and didn't have the play-making ability to play center. Somewhere along the line, it was determined that he can't play wing and must stay at center. I've still yet to here a logical explanation for any of that.

I believe next year either he'll be on the wing on the top two lines or he'll center one and they'll match up Crosby and Malkin in lieu of getting a better winger.


I think that people view Staal as being too weak on the boards, in front of the net and on the forecheck to make him a good fit as a wing. His hands are also suspect right now, which obviously hurts his chances in the goal-scoring department. Having said all that, he's only 20 years old and we have all gotten used to the instant gratification of having guys like Sid and Geno come in as rookies, dominate and keep it up throughout their careers.

I tend to believe that Staal will definitely improve, but I don't think he's ever going to be the 40 goal power forward that most folks envision him as.

Also, I also think that we are moving closer and closer to having Geno and Sid on the same line night in, night out as well.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:41 pm

I'm not panicked at all by this...at the end of the day, if the Upper Limit goes no where, we'll need a couple wingers in about $7 million worth of space, there's a chance of Caputi, Pesonen, etc. making an impact...not to mention Staal will keep progressing majorly, he's not even close to his ceiling yet...not even close...he's a power forward that's 20, rule of thumb is that he's not in the NHL yet, much less a 3 year vet...

I don't have a problem with this, this is the going rate of young players, there isn't a "second contract" anymore thanks to Kevin Lowe...it gives us cost certainty going into the offseason, something Shero has done a great job of...I think this works for us...because Staal, believe it or not, can be more than a third line center *gasp!* ...hate to break it to you...but the potential is there...

resume panicking....
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby The Snapshot on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:41 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I hate the title of '3rd line center'. The kid is playing over 20 minutes a game.


But he still is the 3rd line center. It is what it is regardless of his ice time.

What are other teams paying their 3rd line centers?


The only thing to refute this is that when MT puts Crosby and Malkin together (because we have no first line Wingers) - then Stall becomes the 2nd line center.

I think everyone would probably feel better if Staal produced ANYTHING on the PP from the slot. It's his lack of ability on the PP that makes me wish for a winger. If the PP was producing, I don't think the winger issue would be so prominent. This team had its best start ever before the skid began, and played extremely well last year with Malone, Armstrong and Christensen filling in.

It's very hard to judge Staal now, because he is so young, but if he could JUST add that slot presence on the PP to all of the things he already does we will be fine. These wingers can compete at even strength, and we still always have the option of putting the Malkin/Crosby duo together when needed.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:41 pm

Sorted by time on ice:

Player Team Pos GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW OT S S% TOI/G Sft/G FO%
1 Evgeni Malkin PIT C 41 15 48 63 18 42 4 2 1 0 142 10.6 22:34 23.8 41.4
2 Sidney Crosby PIT C 41 16 35 51 5 59 3 0 1 1 133 12.0 22:13 24.1 49.5
3 Scott Gomez NYR C 37 8 20 28 -10 36 0 1 3 1 132 6.1 22:12 26.5 52.1
4 Mike Richards PHI C 40 15 27 42 16 37 3 4 3 2 115 13.0 22:04 28.4 50.1
5 Mikko Koivu MIN C 39 11 26 37 5 34 3 1 1 0 136 8.1 21:56 29.7 54.2
6 Derek Roy BUF C 40 14 24 38 2 20 3 0 6 1 109 12.8 21:45 26.1 49.7
7 Shawn Horcoff EDM C 39 10 19 29 0 27 5 0 0 0 93 10.8 21:36 27.4 52.0
8 Jeff Carter PHI C 40 27 17 44 7 30 8 4 5 3 183 14.8 21:33 28.2 45.9
9 Paul Stastny COL C 34 10 21 31 -4 16 6 0 2 0 90 11.1 21:30 28.0 53.5
10 Patrick Marleau SJS C 39 19 23 42 15 10 3 3 5 0 140 13.6 21:30 28.3 53.1
11 Eric Staal CAR C 41 18 13 31 11 32 7 0 4 1 171 10.5 21:20 26.1 44.9
12 Mike Ribeiro DAL C 38 7 26 33 -7 16 4 0 0 0 68 10.3 21:03 21.8 46.6
13 Brad Richards DAL C 37 10 24 34 -7 4 3 0 1 0 110 9.1 20:58 23.6 51.6
14 Chris Drury NYR C 42 12 16 28 -4 12 4 1 1 0 119 10.1 20:33 26.3 50.0
15 Anze Kopitar LAK C 39 10 20 30 -8 16 2 1 1 0 113 8.8 20:30 24.8 52.9
16 Rod Brind'Amour CAR C 41 8 18 26 -25 16 3 0 1 0 70 11.4 20:29 25.5 62.6
17 Jason Spezza OTT C 38 17 15 32 -4 30 4 1 3 0 113 15.0 20:27 22.1 51.2
18 Jordan Staal PIT C 41 11 10 21 -5 19 2 0 1 0 74 14.9 20:23 25.1 47.0
19 Vincent Lecavalier TBL C 39 16 18 34 4 29 5 0 4 1 144 11.1 20:15 25.1 51.2
20 Henrik Zetterberg DET C 37 15 21 36 12 20 7 0 2 0 150 10.0 20:08 26.1 53.2
21 Henrik Sedin VAN C 42 7 30 37 7 30 1 0 2 0 72 9.7 19:57 24.0 51.1
22 Andy McDonald STL C 16 6 12 18 -12 12 2 1 1 1 46 13.0 19:55 25.6 61.4
23 Ryan Getzlaf ANA C 40 15 31 46 4 74 3 0 2 0 132 11.4 19:30 22.4 48.6
24 Joe Thornton SJS C 39 9 37 46 19 28 4 0 2 1 64 14.1 19:29 25.1 55.3
25 Marc Savard BOS C 40 13 36 49 25 44 5 0 0 0 105 12.4 19:26 22.8 48.6
26 Pavel Datsyuk DET C 39 17 28 45 17 10 7 1 2 0 120 14.2 19:25 25.4 56.8
27 Travis Zajac NJD C 39 10 18 28 11 19 1 0 1 0 94 10.6 19:16 24.1 52.9
28 Nicklas Backstrom WSH C 41 12 33 45 6 16 8 0 1 0 87 13.8 19:15 20.0 46.5
29 Doug Weight NYI C 37 7 25 32 -11 25 5 0 0 0 68 10.3 19:05 21.4 46.2
30 Patrick O'Sullivan LAK C 38 9 14 23 4 8 2 0 0 0 116 7.8 19:04 24.3 52.0
31 Jonathan Toews CHI C 37 11 21 32 8 27 3 0 2 0 91 12.1 19:02 25.4 52.6
32 Mike Modano DAL C 38 13 13 26 1 22 2 0 3 1 101 12.9 19:00 22.9 51.2
33 Nathan Horton FLA C 31 10 9 19 -8 14 3 1 2 0 62 16.1 18:57 24.7 46.0
34 Ryan Kesler VAN C 42 9 13 22 5 31 2 1 0 0 80 11.3 18:55 24.8 53.7
35 Mike Fisher OTT C 34 3 9 12 -11 23 0 0 1 1 86 3.5 18:46 22.6 49.6
36 Michal Handzus LAK C 39 7 10 17 -3 14 2 0 2 1 69 10.1 18:44 25.2 51.2
37 Joe Pavelski SJS C 37 11 15 26 0 6 3 2 1 0 115 9.6 18:41 25.8 52.3
38 R.J. Umberger CBJ C 40 11 9 20 -2 22 3 0 1 1 110 10.0 18:23 25.9 47.6
39 Stephen Weiss FLA C 36 7 19 26 11 10 2 0 2 1 63 11.1 18:19 25.2 50.4
40 Jason Arnott NSH C 36 15 9 24 2 35 5 0 2 0 107 14.0 18:19 21.3 52.6
41 Samuel Pahlsson ANA C 41 4 7 11 -10 24 1 0 1 0 60 6.7 18:17 24.5 52.9
42 Tuomo Ruutu CAR C 38 12 13 25 2 37 3 0 3 1 79 15.2 18:15 22.7 41.2
43 Keith Tkachuk STL C 39 14 13 27 -11 37 10 0 1 0 101 13.9 18:07 25.2 54.8
44 Joe Sakic COL C 15 2 10 12 -6 6 0 0 0 0 46 4.3 18:06 22.9 54.2
45 Eric Belanger MIN C 36 8 12 20 -6 2 2 0 3 0 74 10.8 18:04 27.7 53.2
46 Patrice Bergeron BOS C 31 4 14 18 1 10 0 0 1 0 69 5.8 18:02 23.3 57.0
47 Tomas Plekanec MTL C 39 7 10 17 0 24 2 2 1 0 101 6.9 17:54 21.0 50.9
48 Tim Connolly BUF C 6 2 5 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 16 12.5 17:53 22.2 54.6
49 Jeff Halpern TBL C 9 1 2 3 -4 2 0 0 0 0 11 9.1 17:46 25.9 57.5
50 Olli Jokinen PHX C 35 13 15 28 1 37 5 1 1 0 103 12.6 17:45 21.7 43.0
51 Sergei Fedorov WSH C 15 4 8 12 7 16 1 0 0 0 39 10.3 17:32 20.9 56.9
52 David Legwand NSH C 39 6 11 17 -7 24 1 1 1 0 82 7.3 17:31 22.9 48.8
53 Daymond Langkow CGY C 40 14 18 32 1 10 3 0 2 0 101 13.9 17:30 21.4 46.9
54 Todd White ATL C 41 12 24 36 -5 12 7 0 0 0 73 16.4 17:29 19.6 51.4
55 Jochen Hecht BUF C 30 4 9 13 -9 25 2 1 1 0 68 5.9 17:25 23.7 43.8
56 Brooks Laich WSH C 41 11 11 22 -1 19 5 0 2 0 84 13.1 17:22 21.4 52.9
57 Saku Koivu MTL C 28 7 15 22 11 12 1 0 1 0 61 11.5 17:12 21.0 54.3
58 Robert Lang MTL C 39 15 15 30 9 28 5 1 3 0 85 17.6 17:08 21.3 48.3
59 John Madden NJD C 33 4 7 11 -7 14 0 0 0 0 53 7.5 17:07 22.6 52.6
60 Martin Hanzal PHX C 41 9 11 20 -1 25 0 2 1 0 54 16.7 17:06 23.4 47.4
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby pfim on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:42 pm

Number Nine wrote:More than you think. Most top teir 3rd line centers that are playing against other teams top lines will average between 17 and 21 minutes of ice time.



Who? Even Pavel Datsyuk is under 20 minutes a game.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby jimjom on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:43 pm

I'm not sure how this move makes us any better with his play being what it has been for the past season and a half.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Penspal on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:43 pm

I now know who I'm picking for tonight's game :wink:

Is there a NO TRADE clause?

How about.... GET STAAL a real winger for crips sake! :lol:

I'm going to post the question.... "Is Jordan's new contract good for the Pens?" Yes or No
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby André on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:43 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Staal's role will only increase. Regardless of his place on ES lines, he gets third most ice time among forwards. That's all that really matters. But regardless of that, he's not going to remain on a 3rd line for life. Number one, there's still never been any logic in the group think about what his position can be. When he was a rookie and scoring 29 goals, mostly as a wing, just about everyone agreed that he should be a winger and didn't have the play-making ability to play center. Somewhere along the line, it was determined that he can't play wing and must stay at center. I've still yet to here a logical explanation for any of that.

I believe next year either he'll be on the wing on the top two lines or he'll center one and they'll match up Crosby and Malkin in lieu of getting a better winger.


What he said.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:44 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kicksave wrote:I hate the title of '3rd line center'. The kid is playing over 20 minutes a game.


But he still is the 3rd line center. It is what it is regardless of his ice time.

What are other teams paying their 3rd line centers?


The only thing to refute this is that when MT puts Crosby and Malkin together (because we have no first line Wingers) - then Stall becomes the 2nd line center.

I think everyone would probably feel better if Staal produced ANYTHING on the PP from the slot. It's his lack of ability on the PP that makes me wish for a winger. If the PP was producing, I don't think the winger issue would be so prominent. This team had its best start ever before the skid began, and played extremely well last year with Malone, Armstrong and Christensen filling in.

It's very hard to judge Staal now, because he is so young, but if he could JUST add that slot presence on the PP to all of the things he already does we will be fine. These wingers can compete at even strength, and we still always have the option of putting the Malkin/Crosby duo together when needed.


Regardless of when he does this, we play more with Sid/Malkin having their own lines. If you are going to pay a guy $4m a year, on our team the way it's constructed and with the cap, he's got to be playing the wing.

Next year, we'll have $21.4 million of the cap tied up in 3 centers. That's approximately 38.2% of the cap!
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby pfim on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:46 pm

jimjom wrote:I'm not sure how this move makes us any better with his play being what it has been for the past season and a half.


I don't see how re-signing anyone mid-season makes a team better.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Henry Hank on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:46 pm

By the way, it looks like Crosby, Whitney, and Staal will all be free agents in the same summer. Well, hopefully they can get some extensions done before then, but that'll be an interesting time. Malkin is up the year after that, and then Fleury is up the year after that.
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