Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:46 pm

Mang-nang wrote:SUBCREATURES! GOZER THE GOZERIAN, GOZER THE DESTRUCTOR, VOLGUUS ZILDROHAR, THE TRAVELLER HAS COME. CHOOSE AND PERISH . . .THE CHOICE HAS BEEN MADE!!!

What did you do, Ray!? Who did you choose!?

Image

Apparently, Shero just couldn't help himself . . . :roll:


Dogs and Cats living together, Mass Hysteria
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:48 pm

Honest questions about Staal. Only answer them being honest.

What is so good about him? Why are people defending him despite it being clearly obvious that he has been the biggest disappointment this year? What do people see in him that I dont? Dont give me age or potential here.

Is he tough? IMO NO, weak as hell on the puck, cant establish himself in front on a PP if his life depended on it.
Does he have a good shot? IMO NO, have never seen him score a nice goal from 20 feet out. Can only score on breakaways/right in front of the net.
Does he make his wingers better? IMO NO, has no vision, not a good passer.

Puck explodes off his stick every time, ect...what is so good about this guy???
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:49 pm

poisonfan2003 wrote:The only way that Stall can be successful as a wingman is for Mr. Malkin in a bar.


HAHAHA Great Post
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Kicksave on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:49 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:Honest questions about Staal. Only answer them being honest.

What is so good about him? Why are people defending him despite it being clearly obvious that he has been the biggest disappointment this year? What do people see in him that I dont? Dont give me age or potential here.

Is he tough? IMO NO, weak as hell on the puck, cant establish himself in front on a PP if his life depended on it.
Does he have a good shot? IMO NO, have never seen him score a nice goal from 20 feet out. Can only score on breakaways/right in front of the net.
Does he make his wingers better? IMO NO, has no vision, not a good passer.

Puck explodes off his stick every time, ect...what is so good about this guy???


Why am I and other people going to try and rationalize this for you when you have your mind already made up on the matter?
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby farnham16 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:50 pm

Actually Staal for Horton makes even more sense now. Both make 4 million a year.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:52 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:Honest questions about Staal. Only answer them being honest.

What is so good about him? Why are people defending him despite it being clearly obvious that he has been the biggest disappointment this year? What do people see in him that I dont? Dont give me age or potential here.

Is he tough? IMO NO, weak as hell on the puck, cant establish himself in front on a PP if his life depended on it.
Does he have a good shot? IMO NO, have never seen him score a nice goal from 20 feet out. Can only score on breakaways/right in front of the net.
Does he make his wingers better? IMO NO, has no vision, not a good passer.

Puck explodes off his stick every time, ect...what is so good about this guy???


I will rehash my post again

So he has not worked out so far on the PP, its not easy to playing that role in front of the net on the PP, people seem to think big body in front = tons of goals. I am sorry, go ask Thomas Holdstrom of DET how easy it is to play in front of the net, he was not the machine he now on Det PP when he first started in this league, there are very few players who can play in front of the net on a PP in the NHL. Malone was not good ont he PP when he started out too, give him some time to figure it out, its not as easy as you think

People also think Staal need to be a playmaking center and be the offensive force behind his line, sorry he is not Malkin and Crosby, he is a solid two way player that needs someone one his wing to take the pressure of him and be the creative one on the line with him. He is great along the boards and winning those battles and really can generate a cycle. Next time you watch a game,pay attention there are at least 4-5 shifts where staal’s lines generates a good cycle, but they can’t generate anything from it. Staal needs to play with someone that can do the creating.

For all the we should have traded staal for a winger people. Besides Jagr and Kovalev in the last 10 years, please name me name me another penguins winger who qualifies as a good scoring winger? (not counting hossa cause he was a rental at this point) and then i want you to tell me if you would trade that person for Staal..
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Samsdog on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:53 pm

I'm pretty neutral on this. Yes, I think he's not worth 4 million now. But this isn't a short-term deal. They're trading an extra million hit now for saving 2 million in two years. Makes sense.

That said, I don't think Shero has completely reconciled the fact that his "win later" philosophy turned into "win now" ahead of when he expected it to. The team is built to win now but he's crippled them as far as that ability goes by contracting on potential instead of ability. On the whole, I'm expecting this signing to work out well, but as far as I'm concerned he's shifted back into a win later philosophy, which could turn around to bite him. On the other hand, Staal could turn around tomorrow and become the player Shero just signed him to be. It's all contingent on him.

The roster the Pens have now is going to be pretty similar next year except with a few WBS call-ups replacing Satan and probably Feds. With this and Geno's extension kicking in even a Satan will be a luxury the Pens can't afford without restructuring.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:56 pm

Ok, so you admit that Staal needs someone else on his wing then? So why not apply that fact to Sid and Geno? They cant do it themselves. Idc that they are the 2 best players in the world, you put scrubs with them like Dupuis, Fedotenko, Sykora, Satan and they cant do anything. They get double teamed because teams know our wingers wont beat them. How are we supposed to ever get Staal a winger of his own, if we cant get Crosby and Malkin their own wingers??? Too much money invested in our center position.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:01 pm

What are the odds tonight that Staal is energized from his new contract and plays a great game and shuts everyone up?
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:01 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:Ok, so you admit that Staal needs someone else on his wing then? So why not apply that fact to Sid and Geno? They cant do it themselves. Idc that they are the 2 best players in the world, you put scrubs with them like Dupuis, Fedotenko, Sykora, Satan and they cant do anything. They get double teamed because teams know our wingers wont beat them. How are we supposed to ever get Staal a winger of his own, if we cant get Crosby and Malkin their own wingers??? Too much money invested in our center position.


do you know the difference between a playmaker, a sniper and a 2 way player, power foward, defensive defensive, offensive defensmen?

Crosby and Malking are PLAYMAKERS, creators, they are best having the puck on their stick and making offense happen around them. Staal is not like that, he is better suited winning the battles on the boards and getting the puck to someone who can CREATE and driving to the net with his big body. Sid and Geno need someone who can finish the plays the setup, Staal needs someone who can set him up. I never said we needed to get wingers for crosby and malkin did i. They are world class players and 1 and 3 in the league in scoring with scrubs on their wings.

I answered your question, answer mine, name one penguins wingers besides jagr and kovy in the pats 10 years you would trade Staal for
Last edited by darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby no name on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:02 pm

I can;t see how we can pay 4 million to a 3rd line center.

Yet we got 2 guys (Duprise-Kennedy) making less than 4 million combined playing with one of the best centers in he world. Money would of been better spent else where. This only makes sence if you deal him. You can find a shutdown 3rd line center for 2.5 mill and have 1.5 to get Sid some real wingers.

Staal makes 4 million - Horton makes 4 million. both young.. both with great potential... Horton has posted far better seasons than staal.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:04 pm

A Staal loses every battle along the boards because he is soff.
B Yes he is a big body, its useless since he doesnt use it.
C Set Staal up??? Are you calling Staal a sniper here?? Oh he is definitely not one of them.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:06 pm

And to answer your question, I cant name another winger. We have always had sucky ones.

Now answer my question. How many stanley cups have we won the past 10 years?
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby Samsdog on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:06 pm

God I love the throwing out the NHL '08 terms as if they're so black and white that you can match up any playmaker with any sniper and it'll work. Some players don't need high-end wingers-these are guys like Malkin who can get by with Sykora because he can generate chances and finish them himself. Crosby needs a decent winger because he doesn't finish. They're different players with different needs. Staal is the furthest thing from a playmaker; the type of winger he would need would be someone who can crash the net with him and muck it up a little. Staal is not a great shooter, nor a passer, and thus the standard stereotype wingers aren't his need. He was good with Cooke and Kennedy because the three of them can get down low, outmuscle, and put in the dirty goals. Those wingers don't run too expensive, you don't need to find him the type of winger you do Crosby or even Malkin.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 17132 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:06 pm

HOSSA TO DET
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 17132 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm

darkstar57 wrote:
Killiecrankie wrote:People are idiots, in two years when Staal is dominating at both ends of the rink everyone will be posting all Jordan StaalZZZZZZZ

Homework assignment kids, go to hockeydatabase.com and type in Keven Stevens, Cam Neely, Rich Tocchet, Joe Thornton, Vinny L, hell Jean Believu all the big guys who played well in this league, and check out how they did at age 18-19-20..... Why would we trade a player who is obviously still learning the NHL game.


Bingo, did you know who the youngest player in NHL history to play 200 games, Jordan Staal.


Yes but do you think he is actually getting better? Based on the stats, obviously not.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby panthers1788 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:09 pm

What does everyone think about the Pens making the deal with Staal to make him more marketable for a trade. If he is already signed to a 4 year deal if they trade him he has x number of years left on his contract instead of him going and becoming an RFA next year. There is a risk involved if he goes to a team where he doesn't want to be and he chooses to test Free Agency, his value can be pushed up by other teams.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:09 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:A Staal loses every battle along the boards because he is soff.
B Yes he is a big body, its useless since he doesnt use it.
C Set Staal up??? Are you calling Staal a sniper here?? Oh he is definitely not one of them.


Do you watch the games or just read what people think.

a. Staal is strong on the boards, he over handles the puck too much which leads to those turn over, because he is trying to be the creative force on the line. Look at what he did when he played with crosby last game, he did not hold onto the puck long. Watch the cycling of his line, that his board play.

b. he is learning to ue his body, its not as simple as you think, it took years before malone learned how to use his size properly, you are giving less time to staal then you did to malone?

c. never said stall was a sniper, i said he needs to play with someone who can create and set him up. A setup can be many things, a shot from the point to create garabe, giving him time and space to find a seem.

Now answer my questions about which penguin winger in the past 10 years besides Jagr and Kovy (Hossa not included also cause he was a rental) would you trade staal for
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:13 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:And to answer your question, I cant name another winger. We have always had sucky ones.

Now answer my question. How many stanley cups have we won the past 10 years?



Exactly, so these scoring wingers you want to trade for don't just grow on trees, everyone things on yeah the other team will do that because they want our player. They might want our player, but they might not want to give up their player in return. Shero is buidling this team down the middle with strong centers, a puck moving defense and a solid goaltender.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:14 pm

Watch every game thanks. But to say he is strong on the boards is just wrong. Even if I thought he was, it doesnt matter. Were not going to go get him a winger or something so that he doesnt have to handle the puck less.

Overhandles the puck??? Being a center in the NHL requires you to hold onto the puck. I used to be a center. You are the one doing the creating. You are the one doing all the passing. He isnt good in either category.

I answered your question, now answer mine.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:15 pm

Samsdog wrote:God I love the throwing out the NHL '08 terms as if they're so black and white that you can match up any playmaker with any sniper and it'll work. Some players don't need high-end wingers-these are guys like Malkin who can get by with Sykora because he can generate chances and finish them himself. Crosby needs a decent winger because he doesn't finish. They're different players with different needs. Staal is the furthest thing from a playmaker; the type of winger he would need would be someone who can crash the net with him and muck it up a little. Staal is not a great shooter, nor a passer, and thus the standard stereotype wingers aren't his need. He was good with Cooke and Kennedy because the three of them can get down low, outmuscle, and put in the dirty goals. Those wingers don't run too expensive, you don't need to find him the type of winger you do Crosby or even Malkin.


When you deal with people that don't understand the game you have to use the NHL 08 terms,

you nailed it on the head with your post,
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby 2headedmonster8771 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:18 pm

And I never said they grew on trees. You have to go after them tho. We cant be content to just have good centers. We need players to finish for us. Having 3 good centers is a waste. 2 good lines and 2 average lines is good enough to win in the NHL.

As Mark Madden said, Staal is simply a luxury and its going to kill us keeping him.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby panthers1788 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:24 pm

What does everyone think about the Pens making the deal with Staal to make him more marketable for a trade. If he is already signed to a 4 year deal if they trade him he has x number of years left on his contract instead of him going and becoming an RFA next year. There is a risk involved if he goes to a team where he doesn't want to be and he chooses to test Free Agency, his value can be pushed up by other teams.
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:27 pm

2headedmonster8771 wrote:But to say he is strong on the boards is just wrong.


while i don't agree with the essence of your point, you are correct here. he's pretty weak on the boards (in the offensive zone tho. he's good on the side boards in his own end).
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Re: Pens sign Staal to a 4 year deal!!!

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:27 pm

so your saying trade staal for a winger to make our top two lines better. So then we put Talbot or someone as the third line center. So right there the third line is not as strong as it was with Staal because they center replacing staal on the third line is not as good as staal. Having three good centers will lead to three solid lines. When we started off great we where rolling three solid lines with a 4th line that was doing its job. Then injuries and slumps crept in. The staal-cooke-kennedy line was better then most third lines in the leauge.
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