Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Pitts on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:15 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
psurh22 wrote:Back to the Crosby being harsh on his line mates discussion...

I still don't see what's wrong with being demanding of your line mates. I think it speaks more to Malone and Sykora being mentally weak and "soft" in that they can't handle criticism from a line mate (who also happens to be the team captain). If you're missing passes or failing to perform your duties, you should her about it. These are professional hockey players making millions of dollars, they shouldn't have to be coddled and excused for failing to perform their job by an easy going line mate.

Well, th thing is, typically it's not a co-worker's place to criticize your work ethic, it's a boss's place. So, it's one thing if MT comes up to Sykora or Malone and says they're not working, but it's a completely different beast when Crosby does it.

No, it is not! Crosby is the Captain of this team, hence a leader, hence a "boss". He is the one and only player on this team with the "free pass" to open his yap whenever he sees the team, or even certain players not playing up to snuff. Consider him the foreman on the factory floor. He has the power. I rather like Draftnik's summation. Who gives a crap what Floating Petr thinks? Crosby is the gear that runs the joint.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Pitts on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:18 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:I disagree. Yelling at someone is very rarely the correct solution to get someone else to maximize their performance in any situation. It really depends on the person. Some people may respond, others will just tune the person out. Why follow someone who is being a jerk?

Alex, honestly, who on this wondrous message board can honestly say with 100% validity that Crosby "yells" at his teammates, ever?? Can someone, anyone with experience working with Crosby on this message board add some validity to this assinine debate?
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby wallflower on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:21 pm

Pitts wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:I disagree. Yelling at someone is very rarely the correct solution to get someone else to maximize their performance in any situation. It really depends on the person. Some people may respond, others will just tune the person out. Why follow someone who is being a jerk?

Alex, honestly, who on this wondrous message board can honestly say with 100% validity that Crosby "yells" at his teammates, ever?? Can someone, anyone with experience working with Crosby on this message board add some validity to this assinine debate?

Someone will probably link you to that ridiculous thread that was trying to claim that Crosby & Orpik hate each other. :roll:
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Draftnik on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:41 pm

Burke and Carlyle couldn't wait to get rid of Sykora because he was a soft, indifferent, floater. He was only able to sign a 1 year deal with EDM the following season at a reduced salary from his previous deal because no other NHL team wanted him. Then the following year he took another paycut to come to the Pens on a short term (2 year) deal. The reason Sykora's pay has been reduced in subsequent short term contracts is due to his lack of character, work rate,etc. It isn't surprising that he wouldn't like Crosby's style because hard work and intensity are the antithesis of Sykora's approach to NHL hockey. I don't doubt Sykora would have more fun with Malkin's laid back approach, but that is like saying who wouldn't have more fun surfing the Internet 8 hours per day instead of doing mundane work at their job? Fun does not necessarily translate to maximized productivity.

My personal view is vocal leadership is overrated in the NHL. Look at Mark Messier, generally acknowledged to be the NHL's greatest Captain. He failed to make the playoffs the last 7 years of his career (or 6, I forget). Either way, his leadership was hailed as the gold standard in the history of the NHL. Pete McGuire relayed a story on TSN this past weekend about when he was an assistant coach in the NHL all-star game. It probably was during the 92/93 season. According to Pete (paraphrasing), Messier called out his NYR teammate, Brian Leetch in front of the entire Eastern Conference bench during a timeout. Messier told Leetch he was disgracing the NYR organIzation and if he didn't play with more respect for the game, intensity, etc he was going to punch Leetch in the face. Pete claims Messier was 100% serious. Messier sounds a lot like Mike Jordan IMO. No tolerance for slackers. Where are the great sports Captains that led with a soft touch? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I think Crosby has done a good job leading the Pens. Take Gonchar for example. He was a very lazy, indifferent floater during his Caps days and even his first couple of seasons with the Pens. His commitment, work rate, intensity, etc improved dramatically last season which is rare for a 33-34 year old player. Was that because of Crosby yelling at him? Who knows? My personal guess would be it was a result of Crosby setting the tone for the rest of the team in terms of work rate and Gonchar following Sid's actions more than his words.

Regardless of the circumstances, Sykora is one of the least likely guys in the NHL to be credible when it comes to getting the most out of their personal talent. His commentary on Sid and Geno has to be viewed through that prism. Sid & Geno are also only 21 & 22, so it is unrealistic to think either one has some keen insight into how to get the most out of their teammates. Knowing how to control other individuals effort is a skill not easily acquired or mastered.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:49 pm

Pitts wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:I disagree. Yelling at someone is very rarely the correct solution to get someone else to maximize their performance in any situation. It really depends on the person. Some people may respond, others will just tune the person out. Why follow someone who is being a jerk?

Alex, honestly, who on this wondrous message board can honestly say with 100% validity that Crosby "yells" at his teammates, ever?? Can someone, anyone with experience working with Crosby on this message board add some validity to this assinine debate?


I didn't say that Crosby did. I was commenting on the hypothetical that yelling at someone is good leadership style.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:50 pm

Draftnik wrote:Where are the great sports Captains that led with a soft touch?


Mario.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:59 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Where are the great sports Captains that led with a soft touch?


Mario.


I don't think there's a cookie-cutter leadership style that everyone has to adopt. Some effective leaders are loud, in your face types. Others are quiet motivators. Both can be tremendously effective in their own way.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Draftnik on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:08 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Where are the great sports Captains that led with a soft touch?


Mario.


The soft touch that made CP trade (waste an asset still productive in the NHL as recently as last season) one of the best Dmen (Zubov) to play in the NHL the last 15 years because Mario couldn't play nicely in the sandbox with him? Or was it the soft touch that made CP bring back a floating piece of crap like Dan Quinn then cut the loser a few weeks into his 2nd Pens stint because the floating loser didn't show an iota of gratitude to Lemieux for giving him another chance? Lemieux was not infallible and it is unrealistic to think Crosby or anybody else would be either.

Using your criteria that would make Jordan and Messier bad leaders. That seems to be in conflict with the retrospective feedback from their peers, but everybody has an opinion.

Go ahead and rip Crosby. Your agenda is pathetically transparent. If the Pens or any other team had 20 Crosbys or Malkins they would win the Cup every season. If they had 20 Sykoras they probably wouldn't make the playoffs.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:12 pm

Draftnik wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Where are the great sports Captains that led with a soft touch?


Mario.


The soft touch that made CP trade (waste an asset still productive in the NHL as recently as last season) one of the best Dmen (Zubov) to play in the NHL the last 15 years because Mario couldn't play nicely in the sandbox with him? Or was it the soft touch that made CP bring back a floating piece of crap like Dan Quinn then cut the loser a few weeks into his 2nd Pens stint because the floating loser didn't show an iota of gratitude to Lemieux for giving him another chance? Lemieux was not infallible and it is unrealistic to think Crosby or anybody else would be either.

Using your criteria that would make Jordan and Messier bad leaders. That seems to be in conflict with the retrospective feedback from their peers, but everybody has an opinion.

Go ahead and rip Crosby. Your agenda is pathetically transparent. If the Pens or any other team had 20 Crosbys or Malkins they would win the Cup every season. If they had 20 Sykoras they probably wouldn't make the playoffs.


Did I once rip Crosby in this thread? I'm just stating that yelling is a horrible leadership style. I don't know if Sid does this. Crosby is still young and may develop into a great leader. He may be one already for all I know. I do find it funny though that you are ripping Sykora because he may have a legitimate criticism against Crosby.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Draftnik on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:24 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:I do find it funny though that you are ripping Sykora because he may have a legitimate criticism against Crosby.


I'm ripping Sykora because I've watched him play for 10+ years and he is a soft floater. I'm ripping Sykora because Burke and Carlyle ripped him for being a soft floater when he played for the Ducks. I'm ripping Sykora because he was a late signing UFA on a 1 year deal with EDM prior to the 06/07 season because no NHL team thought he was worth a longer term deal due to his floating ways. I'm ripping Sykora because he has predictably floated and disappeared for stretches during his Pens tenure.

If a guy with exemplary work rate, intensity, etc criticized or inferred Crosby was a poor leader it would have validity IMO. If a guy deemed to be a slacker based on objective, NHL expert (30 GMs, the Ducks organIzation, etc) opinion criticizes anybody about anything I don't think he has the authority to question them until he gets his own house in order.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:26 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
Did I once rip Crosby in this thread? I'm just stating that yelling is a horrible leadership style. I don't know if Sid does this. Crosby is still young and may develop into a great leader. He may be one already for all I know. I do find it funny though that you are ripping Sykora because he may have a legitimate criticism against Crosby.


You keep saying that yelling is a horrible leadership style... how does that go along with the great leaders that were also yellers?
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby wallflower on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:30 pm

Draftnik wrote:If a guy with exemplary work rate, intensity, etc criticized or inferred Crosby was a poor leader it would have validity IMO. If a guy deemed to be a slacker based on objective, NHL expert (30 GMs, the Ducks organIzation, etc) opinion criticizes anybody about anything I don't think he has the authority to question them until he gets his own house in order.

And this is where I disagree with you - I don't think Sykora did criticize Crosby or infer that he's a poor leader. He didn't mention Crosby at all - all the speculation in this thread has come from posters interpreting the interview in their own ways.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Draftnik on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:33 pm

wallflower wrote:
Draftnik wrote:If a guy with exemplary work rate, intensity, etc criticized or inferred Crosby was a poor leader it would have validity IMO. If a guy deemed to be a slacker based on objective, NHL expert (30 GMs, the Ducks organIzation, etc) opinion criticizes anybody about anything I don't think he has the authority to question them until he gets his own house in order.

And this is where I disagree with you - I don't think Sykora did criticize Crosby or infer that he's a poor leader. He didn't mention Crosby at all - all the speculation in this thread has come from posters interpreting the interview in their own ways.


Point taken. Either way, Sykora is a soft floater and I agree with the premise (assuming Sykora's inference contrasting praise for Malkin with no mention of Sid) that he would not respond well to a guy like Crosby that is the ultimate anti-floater.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:45 pm

MWB wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:
Did I once rip Crosby in this thread? I'm just stating that yelling is a horrible leadership style. I don't know if Sid does this. Crosby is still young and may develop into a great leader. He may be one already for all I know. I do find it funny though that you are ripping Sykora because he may have a legitimate criticism against Crosby.


You keep saying that yelling is a horrible leadership style... how does that go along with the great leaders that were also yellers?


I am making this statement based on personal experience. I don't know if Jordan and Messier were very much into yelling and screaming (especially in public). But if they were I will just say that they had alot more than 1 MVP award to back it up.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby tjand72 on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:50 pm

You know who else was an effective leader that yelled? Hitler.

:pop:
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:52 pm

tjand72 wrote:You know who else was an effective leader that yelled? Hitler.

:pop:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

:pop:


:lol:
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby MWB on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:01 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:I am making this statement based on personal experience. I don't know if Jordan and Messier were very much into yelling and screaming (especially in public). But if they were I will just say that they had alot more than 1 MVP award to back it up.


Jordan's reputation as yelling at teammates is pretty well known and public. The Jordan Rules gave many examples of this and was written during the 1990-91 season, when he had just one MVP. Magic Johnson was a rookie when he was telling teammates what to do in the 1980 Finals. You really can't limit great leadership just to whether they yell or not.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby meecrofilm on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:12 pm

And how many MVP awards they've one.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby AlexPKeaton on Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:17 pm

MWB wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:I am making this statement based on personal experience. I don't know if Jordan and Messier were very much into yelling and screaming (especially in public). But if they were I will just say that they had alot more than 1 MVP award to back it up.


Jordan's reputation as yelling at teammates is pretty well known and public. The Jordan Rules gave many examples of this and was written during the 1990-91 season, when he had just one MVP. Magic Johnson was a rookie when he was telling teammates what to do in the 1980 Finals. You really can't limit great leadership just to whether they yell or not.


No that is a good point. I would define leadership as getting the most out of the people whom you lead. If you have to be a jerk, then be a jerk. But in my experience being a jerk always backfires. The good leaders I have had the pleasure of witnessing were always the type where people wanted to do well for them out of respect and admiration, not fear.

This is not a reply to you MWB, this is for the SCDF Members:
AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING CROSBY DOES THIS. THIS IS JUST A HYPOTHETICAL CONVERSATION ABOUT LEADERSHIP STYLES. I LIKE SID AND I AM A BIG FAN. I AM ALEX P. KEATON NOT ALEX V. SEMIN.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby pcm on Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 pm

If you confine the discussion from the vague topic of leadership to the subject of getting the most out of the players you play with on the ice (which is what Sykora was talking about), then it's apparent Sykora responds more to Malkin's on-ice leadership style than Sid's abrasive style. Likewise with Malone, Fedetenko, and most every other player who has played with both.

To say Gonchar's "revived career" is the result of Sid's leadership seems to me a great leap in trying to defend your point of view Draftnik. I'd say it is much more likely Gonchar took to Malkin, who makes greatness look easy and fun. Malkin is definitely no floater. But his style gets the most out of those you would call a floater.

The disappointments so far this season open up the door for questioning the leadership of this team. Crosby as captain is going to take the brunt of that criticism. All talk is just speculation on the part of fans since we can hardly qualify the situation inside the dressing room with facts. The one fact that the team is outside of the playoffs is enough to make people look at the situation from all angles. Crosby, the too-young captain unable to click with linemates, is one angle.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby llipgh2 on Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:32 pm

tjand72 wrote:You know who else was an effective leader that yelled? Hitler.

:pop:


Ok, I laughed so hard when I read this, coffee almost shot out of my nose. :lol:
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Draftnik on Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:00 pm

pcm wrote:If you confine the discussion from the vague topic of leadership to the subject of getting the most out of the players you play with on the ice (which is what Sykora was talking about), then it's apparent Sykora responds more to Malkin's on-ice leadership style than Sid's abrasive style. Likewise with Malone, Fedetenko, and most every other player who has played with both.

To say Gonchar's "revived career" is the result of Sid's leadership seems to me a great leap in trying to defend your point of view Draftnik. I'd say it is much more likely Gonchar took to Malkin, who makes greatness look easy and fun. Malkin is definitely no floater. But his style gets the most out of those you would call a floater.

The disappointments so far this season open up the door for questioning the leadership of this team. Crosby as captain is going to take the brunt of that criticism. All talk is just speculation on the part of fans since we can hardly qualify the situation inside the dressing room with facts. The one fact that the team is outside of the playoffs is enough to make people look at the situation from all angles. Crosby, the too-young captain unable to click with linemates, is one angle.


Crosby is the Pens Captain, not the captain of his line. He leads the entire team. Using Sykora and Malone as examples of NHL players with relevant opinions on anything is comical. Malone was an indifferent player for most of his career and only got serious when he was playing for an UFA contract. Sykora's indifference is well chronicled and 30 GMs basically told him he was too lazy and too much of a risk for anything other than a 1 year late signing UFA deal in 06/07. I don't doubt both of them like playing with somebody that doesn't chastise them for their carefree ways. On the other hand, Crosby's work rate, intensity, high tempo, etc are what make him one of the NHL's best players in addition to his talent. If Sid didn't play with that passion, drive, ferocity, etc he wouldn't be the player he is. It is absurd to think Sid should dumb his approach down to sink to the level of Sykora and Malone. All that would create is 3 lazy players instead of 2.

Look at Sykora this season:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pp/pgl.cgi?player=sykorpe01&year=2009

17 goals, scored in 11 of 45 games played. The number of multi-goal games is striking. He clearly is capable of raising his level of play, but he doesn't do it on a consistent enough basis despite playing much of that time with Malkin and even some of that time with Malkin and Crosby.

Also, look at his career:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/sykorpe01.html

The only 2 times he topped 30 goals his shots per game averaged ~ 3.5. He has been at 2.5 shots per game with the Pens with a bit less ice time per game than those seasons, but certainly not enough to justify a full shot less per game. Sykora is the one with the problem despite playing with Malkin. Sykora needs to be kicked in the a## by somebody and forced to work harder to get into scoring position more often so he can get more shots and goals. Despite Sykora's self professed fondness for playing with Malkin he isn't backing it up on the ice with an effort that indicates Malkin is pushing Sykora to work hard. I do not mean this as in indictment of Malkin. Sykora is obviously the one that needs to look in the mirror and work harder regardless of who blows him kisses or curses him.

Despite the LGP anti-Ovie vibe that shots on goal are a bad thing, it is an indication of how hard goal scorers are working and trying to score goals:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?service=page&page=playerstats&fetchKey=20092ALLAASAll&viewName=summary&sort=shots&pg=4

Sykora ranks 99th in the NHL in SOG. That is a pretty pathetic output IMO for a guy allegedly working hard because he loves playing with Malkin. Shooting the puck and scoring goals are the only reasons Sykora is in the NHL.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby 71 on Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:02 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Where are the great sports Captains that led with a soft touch?


Mario.


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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby pcm on Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:18 pm

Sykora is what he is. But to think his play in the 1.5 seasons he's been here has been anything of a disappointment is mind-boggling to me. Last year was his most productive since playing on the top line of the 2001 Devils. He's not far off those marks this season, and yet in his interview he seems to think he can do better.

I know you're trying to discredit the messenger by saying Sykora's opinion doesn't matter because he's a floater (I'd ask Lou L's opinion on that over Burke or Carlye). But in a situation where the team's leadership is at issue, his opinion is a lot more valid than any of ours. He blatantly questions Therrien's tactics and not-so-blatantly questions Crosby's... the team's two leaders.

Whether you want to put stock in that is up to you. I tend to draw from it less a criticism of coach and captain --- everyone responds to different types of leadership in different ways --- more so, it seems an indictment of the "specialness" of Zhenia Malkin.
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Re: Translation of a long interview with Petr Sykora

Postby Draftnik on Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:37 pm

pcm wrote:Sykora is what he is. But to think his play in the 1.5 seasons he's been here has been anything of a disappointment is mind-boggling to me. Last year was his most productive since playing on the top line of the 2001 Devils. He's not far off those marks this season, and yet in his interview he seems to think he can do better.

I know you're trying to discredit the messenger by saying Sykora's opinion doesn't matter because he's a floater (I'd ask Lou L's opinion on that over Burke or Carlye). But in a situation where the team's leadership is at issue, his opinion is a lot more valid than any of ours. He blatantly questions Therrien's tactics and not-so-blatantly questions Crosby's... the team's two leaders.

Whether you want to put stock in that is up to you. I tend to draw from it less a criticism of coach and captain --- everyone responds to different types of leadership in different ways --- more so, it seems an indictment of the "specialness" of Zhenia Malkin.


Last season was not Sykora's most productive since 01. He was more productive in 02/03 with ANA and not coincidentally, his work rate as a goal scorer was 3.65 shots per game that year. Despite his self professed love for playing with Geno, Sykora isn't putting forward the same kind of effort (3.5 shots per game) as he did on 00/01 and 02/03. If he loves playing with Geno so much why isn't he working as hard as he did in those seasons? I agree Sykora's production is in line with his salary and expectations because his decade plus of NHL floating has set the baseline.

Which Lou L are you referring to? The Lou L that traded Sykora for Jeff Friessen and Oleg Tverdovsky or the Lou L that lavished a $20M-6 year deal on Dainius Zubrus when Sykora was signing a $5M-2 year deal in July 07?
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