Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Pitts on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:29 am

I'd rather try my damnedest to trade Whitney for Horton since it pretty well a given that Bouwmeester will go UFA this summer. For Armstrong, I'd offer any lower tier player other than Biz, Godard and Cooke. Armstrong just may be the medicine for what ails Sid.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby farnham16 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:45 am

Jesse wrote:I'm not being sarcastic. Whitney is one of my least favorite Penguins. He drives me up a wall. I'm sorry to disappoint some people, but I can't stand him. Save his solid play in the cup finals, he has been more or less an eyesore for the last two or three years. He's positionally unsound, he's soft in front of the net and in the boards, his defensive coverage is questionable, and his grossly overrated on the power-play. Outlet passes are great and mostly accurate, but that doesn't make a fine defenseman. I'd move him. We've got Gogo and Letang growing at a fine pace, and plenty of help on the way in the future.

I'm not saying trade him for Colby Armstrong straight up. Frankly, I'm tired of Colby Armstrong. I don't care about him being BFF with Sid or being hilariously funny in the locker-room. He's a dime a dozen player.

What I would like to see is the Pens use Whitney to get a top-flight winger. It's a more pressing need at this point.

Sorry, Digitalgypsy. Haha.


I'm with you on this one. Why I might not dislike Whitney as much as you do, I would detinitely like to see a winger be brought in for him.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Jesse on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:47 am

Pitts wrote:I'd rather try my damnedest to trade Whitney for Horton since it pretty well a given that Bouwmeester will go UFA this summer. For Armstrong, I'd offer any lower tier player other than Biz, Godard and Cooke. Armstrong just may be the medicine for what ails Sid.


No offence to you, Pitts, but if Crosby is "ailing" because they traded his friend, he had better retire right now, because there's no place for that in the NHL.

Crosby is "ailing" because he doesn't have a top flight winger. He does now, actually, and it's Evgeni Malkin, but when Marian Hossa was here, and everything was peachy, the only people that talked about Colby Armstrong were the puck bunnies that thought his schnoz was cute and missed his funny jokes. On the ice, Colby was a dime a dozen guy.

I also agree with you about Horton. The situation makes sense for Florida. Horton isn't exactly the pedigree I'd like, but he's got the skills, and this will be his first time playing with a dynamic playmaker.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:48 am

Pitts wrote:I'd rather try my damnedest to trade Whitney for Horton since it pretty well a given that Bouwmeester will go UFA this summer. For Armstrong, I'd offer any lower tier player other than Biz, Godard and Cooke. Armstrong just may be the medicine for what ails Sid.


That's why I've been saying it makes sense if Florida is going to move Bouwmeester, they can get a forward(s) to replace Horton, while the Pens can trade Whitney for Horton and they have their replacement for Bouwmeester.

It makes me wonder if Martin was up here during the Craps game to watch Whitney.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby jimjom on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:51 am

[quote="Jesse"]

I'm not saying trade him for Colby Armstrong straight up. Frankly, I'm tired of Colby Armstrong. I don't care about him being BFF with Sid or being hilariously funny in the locker-room. He's a dime a dozen player.

[quote]

Seriously, there are tons of guys like this in the NHL. Clearly he is Sid's Bergevin, why else do you think he played here on like 3 seperate occasions? Colby will be in a Pens uniform again, if not this year.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby farnham16 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:52 am

Honeslty, I don't really want Armstrong back here. He was nothing special when he was here and sometimes he was even terrible. We don't need a player like him. I wouldn't trade a draft pick for him and I don't know why we would trade with Atlanta unless it was for Kovalchuk. And I just don't see that happening right now.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:54 am

I'm not being sarcastic. Whitney is one of my least favorite Penguins. He drives me up a wall. I'm sorry to disappoint some people, but I can't stand him. Save his solid play in the cup finals, he has been more or less an eyesore for the last two or three years. He's positionally unsound, he's soft in front of the net and in the boards, his defensive coverage is questionable, and his grossly overrated on the power-play. Outlet passes are great and mostly accurate, but that doesn't make a fine defenseman. I'd move him. We've got Gogo and Letang growing at a fine pace, and plenty of help on the way in the future.

I'm not saying trade him for Colby Armstrong straight up. Frankly, I'm tired of Colby Armstrong. I don't care about him being BFF with Sid or being hilariously funny in the locker-room. He's a dime a dozen player.

What I would like to see is the Pens use Whitney to get a top-flight winger. It's a more pressing need at this point.

Sorry, Digitalgypsy. Haha.


I couldnt have said it any better. I'd prefer Frolov over Horton.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby meecrofilm on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:00 pm

^^ Yeah, but with Florida almost certain to lose Bouwmeester, they'd be looking for another D-man who could put up points. If Horton doesn't seem a fair value they could always through in a pick, or Pens could throw in a pick and get another guy back. I don't know, I'm not a GM :lol:
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby maudineormsby on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 pm

All I have to say is: BEAKED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLXjth8hLxU
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Pitts on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 pm

Jesse wrote:
Pitts wrote:I'd rather try my damnedest to trade Whitney for Horton since it pretty well a given that Bouwmeester will go UFA this summer. For Armstrong, I'd offer any lower tier player other than Biz, Godard and Cooke. Armstrong just may be the medicine for what ails Sid.


No offence to you, Pitts, but if Crosby is "ailing" because they traded his friend, he had better retire right now, because there's no place for that in the NHL.

Crosby is "ailing" because he doesn't have a top flight winger. He does now, actually, and it's Evgeni Malkin, but when Marian Hossa was here, and everything was peachy, the only people that talked about Colby Armstrong were the puck bunnies that thought his schnoz was cute and missed his funny jokes. On the ice, Colby was a dime a dozen guy.

I also agree with you about Horton. The situation makes sense for Florida. Horton isn't exactly the pedigree I'd like, but he's got the skills, and this will be his first time playing with a dynamic playmaker.

I'm sure Crosby is not ailing because Colby isn't here, but Colby can play and with a decent edge. If it helps Crosby in some way to feel better (whether it shows or not), I'm cool with him returning. As others have said, I'd MUCH rather have Colby on the 3rd line than Mirage Satan.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby sina220 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:20 pm

As it stands now I'd much rather have Army playing 3rd line right wing than Satan at 3.5 mil. But I also read somewhere recently that Atlanta has all intentions to re-sign Army because they like his presence around their lockerroom and young players, and his 13 goals so far. I tend to agree with the latter.

And if Antropov could be had for a pick or prospect then let's do it. One of the 3rd rounders we have (ours or Tampa's) and/or Kevin Veilleux?
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:44 pm

All I know is...

Jaysmiter LOVES the idea...
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Sarge on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:59 pm

My two cents on Armstrong and how he might fit with this team.

I think that Armstrong is, ideally, a very good third line RW and a very good PK'er. In a perfect world, on a perfect team, that's where he'd play. But, this isn't a perfect world...

You can debate whether or not Sid and Malkin's deals are actually looking like a legitimate hometown discount, especially in light of the recent Zetterberg signing but for better or worse those are the deals we're locked into. With 17.4M tied up in two players, they each can't have two $5M wingers to play with them. It will take smart bets on wingers to fill these roles. Inevitably we're going to end up with 1-2 guys who we'll say "I think ________ is really a third liner." So if we're going to end up with third liners masquerading as top six players we should make sure they are ones that fit.

Players like Crosby are most successful when they have time and space. In my opinion, a big part of the reason that Satan failed with Crosby is that they had Dupuis on the other side. Neither one of these guys created time or space for Crosby to do his thing. There are two main ways to create time and space:

1) other skilled players - opponents respect these guys in and it amounts to less double-teaming of Crosby. With Satan and Dupuis, neither of these guys did this and Crosby always had at least two guys on him most of the time. When playing with a really skilled player, he has more space because the other teams respect that other player. You saw this when he played with Hossa, and you can see it when he plays with Malkin now. The problem with these types of guys is that they are expensive. I really think, we'd have to make a major trade (Whitney, Staal, Letang) to get a skill guy. This seems unlikely at least in the short term (My pick would be Erat from NSH to fill this hole). It seems to me, our best hope for this type of a player is to draft and develop him. I think Landon Ferraro in the '09 draft might be a good fit if he's still around.

2) players with a physical presence - opponents respect (or fear) these guys because they know when they're coming at them, they will get hit. This is pretty simple. Players are less aggressive when they have to look over their shoulder. When their minds are focused on this, they cannot focus on double teaming a player like Crosby, and they also cannot take liberties when they are on the ice. Part of the problem, though is that this type of player also must have at least a little bit of skill, or else their spot on a top line is wasted. Some examples of this, I feel are Malone last year with Malkin. Around the league, you see a guy like Ryane Clowe having a lot of success this way playing a prominent role for SJS. Also, Holmstrom on DET is another guy who really, has a lot of his success because of his physical presence. He's immovable in front of the net, taking one guy away from double-covering one of their stars. It actually seems like we have some guys who *may* develop into this kind of a player in the system in Caputi and CPZ, and maybe more of a long shot with Joey Haddad and Nick Johnson. This is also IMO why Horton from FLA seems like he'd be such a good fit.

As far as Armstrong goes... I think he'd be a decent fit for top six duty, IF the Penguins decide to play Malkin and Crosby together for any length of time, or if the Pens can get a skill guy whose a little bit willing to get his nose dirty to play with Sid. Satan does work because he's strictly a permiter guyReason being, Colby's lurking in the offensive zone and his willingness to play tough would create a little space for Sid and Malkin, IMO. I also think, and you could debate this, but... his offensive sensibilities are a little better than Dupuis, who has a decent shot but, not really much else in the way of finishing abilities. Colby is right handed and showed in PGH his first year with Sid and is showing this year that he can be around a 25-25-50 guy playing about 16-17 minutes per night at ES and on the PK. This isn't ideal, but in this way it could kind of make sense... I'm not sold one way or another, really.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:04 pm

Sarge wrote:My two cents on Armstrong and how he might fit with this team.

I think that Armstrong is, ideally, a very good third line RW and a very good PK'er. In a perfect world, on a perfect team, that's where he'd play. But, this isn't a perfect world...

You can debate whether or not Sid and Malkin's deals are actually looking like a legitimate hometown discount, especially in light of the recent Zetterberg signing but for better or worse those are the deals we're locked into. With 17.4M tied up in two players, they each can't have two $5M wingers to play with them. It will take smart bets on wingers to fill these roles. Inevitably we're going to end up with 1-2 guys who we'll say "I think ________ is really a third liner." So if we're going to end up with third liners masquerading as top six players we should make sure they are ones that fit.

Players like Crosby are most successful when they have time and space. In my opinion, a big part of the reason that Satan failed with Crosby is that they had Dupuis on the other side. Neither one of these guys created time or space for Crosby to do his thing. There are two main ways to create time and space:

1) other skilled players - opponents respect these guys in and it amounts to less double-teaming of Crosby. With Satan and Dupuis, neither of these guys did this and Crosby always had at least two guys on him most of the time. When playing with a really skilled player, he has more space because the other teams respect that other player. You saw this when he played with Hossa, and you can see it when he plays with Malkin now. The problem with these types of guys is that they are expensive. I really think, we'd have to make a major trade (Whitney, Staal, Letang) to get a skill guy. This seems unlikely at least in the short term (My pick would be Erat from NSH to fill this hole). It seems to me, our best hope for this type of a player is to draft and develop him. I think Landon Ferraro in the '09 draft might be a good fit if he's still around.

2) players with a physical presence - opponents respect (or fear) these guys because they know when they're coming at them, they will get hit. This is pretty simple. Players are less aggressive when they have to look over their shoulder. When their minds are focused on this, they cannot focus on double teaming a player like Crosby, and they also cannot take liberties when they are on the ice. Part of the problem, though is that this type of player also must have at least a little bit of skill, or else their spot on a top line is wasted. Some examples of this, I feel are Malone last year with Malkin. Around the league, you see a guy like Ryane Clowe having a lot of success this way playing a prominent role for SJS. Also, Holmstrom on DET is another guy who really, has a lot of his success because of his physical presence. He's immovable in front of the net, taking one guy away from double-covering one of their stars. It actually seems like we have some guys who *may* develop into this kind of a player in the system in Caputi and CPZ, and maybe more of a long shot with Joey Haddad and Nick Johnson. This is also IMO why Horton from FLA seems like he'd be such a good fit.

As far as Armstrong goes... I think he'd be a decent fit for top six duty, IF the Penguins decide to play Malkin and Crosby together for any length of time, or if the Pens can get a skill guy whose a little bit willing to get his nose dirty to play with Sid. Satan does work because he's strictly a permiter guyReason being, Colby's lurking in the offensive zone and his willingness to play tough would create a little space for Sid and Malkin, IMO. I also think, and you could debate this, but... his offensive sensibilities are a little better than Dupuis, who has a decent shot but, not really much else in the way of finishing abilities. Colby is right handed and showed in PGH his first year with Sid and is showing this year that he can be around a 25-25-50 guy playing about 16-17 minutes per night at ES and on the PK. This isn't ideal, but in this way it could kind of make sense... I'm not sold one way or another, really.


The problem with comparing Sid/Malkin to Zetterberg on the hometown discount is that Zetterberg isn't in his early 20's. He's 29 and this was going to be his last big deal probably. If he were to take a deal for 6 or 7 years till he was 35, he would be past his prime. It all works out for him anyways. Also, on the backend of the deal, if Zetterberg retires early, they have cap savings.

For Sid/Malkin to do something like this, they would have had to sign 20 year deals, and even then it wouldn't maximize what they're going to make. These guys have two more deals for big money in them at least.

I would take a fajita burrito from Chipotle for Satan.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:07 pm

Also, if the Pens can get a top 6 LWer, then Armstrong makes sense in the top 6 to passify Sid. If it were Kovachoo - Sid - Armstrong, that'd be fine since we have Dupuis playing there now.

I'm hoping RS learned his lesson with Satan. That cap space would be valuable right now.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Sarge on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:09 pm

farnham16 wrote:
Jesse wrote:I'm not being sarcastic. Whitney is one of my least favorite Penguins. He drives me up a wall. I'm sorry to disappoint some people, but I can't stand him. Save his solid play in the cup finals, he has been more or less an eyesore for the last two or three years. He's positionally unsound, he's soft in front of the net and in the boards, his defensive coverage is questionable, and his grossly overrated on the power-play. Outlet passes are great and mostly accurate, but that doesn't make a fine defenseman. I'd move him. We've got Gogo and Letang growing at a fine pace, and plenty of help on the way in the future.

I'm not saying trade him for Colby Armstrong straight up. Frankly, I'm tired of Colby Armstrong. I don't care about him being BFF with Sid or being hilariously funny in the locker-room. He's a dime a dozen player.

What I would like to see is the Pens use Whitney to get a top-flight winger. It's a more pressing need at this point.

Sorry, Digitalgypsy. Haha.




I'm with you on this one. Why I might not dislike Whitney as much as you do, I would detinitely like to see a winger be brought in for him.



I actually like Whitney and don't consider an eyesore or positionally unsound all of the time, but I can see how a trade of Whitney makes a lot of sense. For me to be OK with it though, a few other things have to happen.

1) Goligoski extended to a deal that's friendlier than Whitney's. Say, 4 yrs/10-12M.
2) Extend Gonchar as well, he's the best in the biz at PP-QB. He's 34 yrs old this year, and will be 35 when his contract expires next season. I'd say talk to him now about signing an extension next year to the tune of 5 yrs/18.5M, structured like this: 5.5-5.5-5.5-1-1, similar to Zetterberg in DET. This makes his cap hit 3.7M.
3) This one is kind of a bonus, but... I'd say it further boost the case for trading Whitney if the scouting dept. thinks that Alex Grant has the potential to turn into an NHL caliber puck-moving D-man.

Trading Whitney would probably allow the Pens to get a solid winger in return, maybe even one that is signed, like Erat or Horton.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Sams_Dog on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:16 pm

If bringing back Armstrong helps the chemistry in the room I'm all for it.

Satan for Colby.
Fedotenko for Colby.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Why So Serious? on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:18 pm

All I can say is that I am much more interested in giving up Whitney then Staal.

While I do believe we have Whitney at a nice bargain price, we have a plethora of solid young puck moving d-men in the fold for the upcoming years. The core guys down the line include Letang, Goligoski, Strait, Sneep, Grant, Orpik, etc... That to me is a solid bunch. And if you can add some scoring punch for the top 2 lines by giving up #19 for immediate success and possibly for future success, why not? I'm all for it if an offer is out there.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby pcm on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:20 pm

Colby is an RFA and will get a pay raise on his 1.2 m.

Whitney may very well be expendable. I'd rather trade GoGo, who is sitting in the wings right now. But trading Whitney frees up cap space and will net more in return. Horton and Eriksson are two names that come to mind. While I like guys like Frolov and Kozlov, they only have 1 year left on their deals. I'd only trade Whitney for a long-term asset.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Why So Serious? on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:21 pm

Sams_Dog wrote:If bringing back Armstrong helps the chemistry in the room I'm all for it.

Satan for Colby.
Fedotenko for Colby.


1) Maybe
2) No Way!

Feds has proven to me atleast, that he is more than serviceable. He was playing lights out hockey before he broke his hand. And he was starting to gain a lot of chemistry playing with Malkin and Sykie before the injury. As a matter of fact, I want to see Feds resigned after this season is over. He has been solid and one of the more consistent wingers on this team for a big stretch of games before he got hurt.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby tluke53 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:25 pm

Colby is the new Aleksey Morzov, which means we have 2 or 3 more years of "He's coming back" threads.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby meow on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:25 pm

I wouldn't trade a single Penguin on the NHL roster for him at this point. His role has been filled and surpassed by Fedotenko. Anyone who says otherwise has a man-crush on Colby and needs to take the wool off their eyes.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby pcm on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:25 pm

Why So Serious? wrote:
Sams_Dog wrote:If bringing back Armstrong helps the chemistry in the room I'm all for it.

Satan for Colby.
Fedotenko for Colby.


1) Maybe
2) No Way!

Feds has proven to me atleast, that he is more than serviceable. He was playing lights out hockey before he broke his hand. And he was starting to gain a lot of chemistry playing with Malkin and Sykie before the injury. As a matter of fact, I want to see Feds resigned after this season is over. He has been solid and one of the more consistent wingers on this team for a big stretch of games before he got hurt.


If I was Shero, I'd try and re-sign Tank and Sykie each for 2 years at their current salary. The cost certainty of having one top line booked for $14 million is gold.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Pitts on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:26 pm

I agree WSS -- I'm keeping Fedotenko and Sykora on this team.
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Re: Pens interested in Colby Armstrong

Postby Jim on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:57 pm

Whitney and Satan for Kovalchuk and Armstrong
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