How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

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How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby the HockeyGod on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:47 am

Do any of you remember that scene in back to school when the snooty business professor is lecturing the class on how to run a company? He espouses a variety of information, but it's only partial and isn't wholly applicable in the real world. Perhaps someone else has mentioned what I'm about to say in some form before, but I think I may finally understand where this growing sentiment that Crosby is so over-rated is coming from. At least a portion of it anyway. Fantasy hockey.

I hate fantasy sports. I think it's a big waste of time. But then again, one may say the same thing about posting a comment of this length on a message board. Regardless, It seems like I'm in the minority regarding fantasy sports. Many people love fantasy sports. They spend exorbitant amounts of time tweaking their line-ups, trading players, paying cash to get into leagues, all that crap. They live and die by it. They act as if it's actually representative of reality, and that may be where some of this Crosby is so over-rated crap comes from.

I decided to look at TSN Canada's player power rankings a little while ago. I don't know exactly why. I don't really give a crap. I haven't had a fantasy team of any type in years, which I soon abandoned out of boredom. The only thing good about it was the clever name (for any Family Guy fans out there), the Quahog Fighting Chickens. But anyway, I looked at the expanded rankings and I immediately noticed Sid was not among the top 20. I was shocked by this.

I don't know much about fantasy hockey. I don't know exactly how points are accumulated and these rankings are made. I don't even want to. But upon seeing these rankings, the idea that people were basing their opinion of Sid (to some degree) on his impact on a fantasy hockey team hit me like a lightning bolt. Could this be?

I'm blissfully ignorant of all this fantasy stuff. However, occasionally when I decide like arguing with people who think Crosby stinks and Ovechkin is the best player ever, and I reflect on those conversations for a moment, I realized my initial hypothesis might have some merit. All the time, these people say, " Crosby is one dimensional. All he can do is pass. He can't score goals. Ovechkin has more hits now than Crosby will have in his whole career. Etc " .They say this stuff as if it actually mattered. Or at least, as if it was clear proof Ovechkin is far and away the better player. I realize now their entire argument as to why Ovie is clearly better directly correlates to how much more valuable Ovechkin is to a fantasy team to that of Crosby.

It could just be coincidence. After all, it's been proven through statistics that global warming directly correlates to the dwindling number of pirates in the world today compared to the past ...RAmen. But I don't know. I think there's something more to this 'Ovechkin fantasy impact hypothesis' thing. I'm not saying it's all of it. I have a hard time believing Semin, Roenick, and Kostitsyn are saying what they're saying because of fantasy hockey. They could just be stupid.

So tell me what you think. Could I be on to something here? Have I just repeated something others have said on this board in the past? I'm ignorant of fantasy hockey, so that's entirely possible. But the next time I hear these arguments regarding Ovechkin's God-like status and Sid's mythical deficiencies, I know exactly what will pop into my head...

" Now we must decide where to build our factory "

" How about fantasy land"
Last edited by the HockeyGod on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Bob McKenzie on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:01 am

I could've swore when I looked the other day, Crosby was 8th among centers. Malkin was ranked 1st among centers.

I wouldn't put too much into those rankings. If Crosby heats up, he could be #2 by next week.

Those rankings are hogwash IMO.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:39 am

I hear with the fantasy sports hate -- I'm a little indifferent to it because I know I would be an out of control monster if I got started with it! I spend WAY too much time following the Pens as it is.

That said, it does seem to be a huge deal in hockey fan forums. Let's say someone starts a thread about a specific player -- they had a good/bad game, would look great with Sid or Malkin, is out with an injury, suspended etc. Within two replies of the original post there will be someone talking about how great/bad this will be for their fantasy team. Without fail. :D
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby bringitonhome on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:42 am

I have ADD, I couldn't read all of that. sorry.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Waffles on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:21 am

The tl;dr of it amounts to:

Crosby doesn't have alot of the random, individual stats that ovechkin does, and that places ovechkin on the top of the Power Rankings that you always see on SC or TSN.

This makes ovechkin look better, thus creating a perception that crosby is not good, based on his position on these power rankings.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:24 am

Whats a widget? And if you reference Back to School you have to mention the triple Lindee somewhere in the post
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Durbano on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:28 am

Could I be on to something here?

Maybe ... but I think it has more to do with Gretzky's old quotes about Sid, combined with the instant-gratification age in which we live. I'm aware of the excellent numbers Sid has put up, but when the original expectation (maybe too strong a word) is that he's got a real shot at breaking Gretzky's records, people may look at the scoring race and wonder why he's not leading by 25 points. In turn, they may think, "Well, he's not that good."
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby pfim on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:41 am

I play fantasy hockey and watch NHL hockey. The two are completely different and I have no trouble distinguishing between the two when I have opinions on certain hockey players.

I also don't get too caught up in what others have to say about hockey players, no matter what their experience and qualifications. I have my opinions and if they're wrong, so be it.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Admin on Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:46 am

Posts like the one above are why pfim is a serious point-scorer on my LGP Poster Fantasy team.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Indyman on Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:50 am

Nice (long) post...

I don't think Fantasy hockey is the reason people think Sid is over-rated. If fact I think people think he's over-hyped, not over-rated...but that's a different story...

The NHL made Sid the face of the NHL because they needed a young stud to sell the game after the lock out - Because he was a high profile junior, good ol' polite Canadian boy. A lot of people were sick of hearing about him before he even hit the NHL. Now, every little thing he does get magnified, and he is unfairly villafied.

Then we have Ovechkin - who everybody seems to be in love with right now. To me he is like a excitable, big dumb dog that slobbers all over the place and wets himself when you walk in the room. While his little act of acting like every goal is a cup winning goal was cute and even a little refreshing for a short while - it has turned painfully annoying and disrespectful...people will tire of his showboating soon enough (except Caps fans of course) As someone mentioned before, he is the anti-Crosby.....much like Lemieux was considered the anti-Gretzky back in the day.

In my opinion neither of these guys will be one of the all time greats until they hoist at least one cup over their heads. Ovechkin can hoot and holler like a 12 year old and bang into the glass after every goal, and pretend he's a rock star all he wants - he's nothing until he wins a cup.

I'm just glad our guy is doing it like a professional and not an ass clown.

Right now, in my fantasy sports league (Yahoo) AO is about 500 points ahead of Sid - I think it will be a lot closer at the end of the year

And dude - just because you don't like fantasy sports - doesn't mean it sucks....

jeez
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Stevo on Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:56 am

Your whole short story could haven been summed up with....."people think crosby is overrated because he isn't that great of a fantasy hockey player"
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:38 am

Indyman wrote:Right now, in my fantasy sports league (Yahoo) AO is about 500 points ahead of Sid - I think it will be a lot closer at the end of the year


Does your league give points for shots, because i think AO has about 500 more shots then anyone else in the NHL :-)

Maybe they should give points for passes that should be converted (Sid would at least then only be down by 200)
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Indyman on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:40 am

yup - shots count :(

Sid 162
AO 314
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:51 am

Indyman wrote:yup - shots count :(

Sid 162
AO 314


You know what i find really funny about the AO debate when people say he is the best goal scorer in the NHL, he takes more shots then anyone else!!!! here is the proof (top 5 in goals)

AO- 31 G (314 shots)
Jeff Carter - 30 G (204 Shots)
Thomas Vanek 29 G (155 Shots)
Zach Parise 28 G (197 Shots)
Patrcik Marleau - 26 G (164 Shots)

He has taken 110 More shots then Carter and 159 more shots then Vanek!!!
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Indyman on Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:29 pm

Well....you can't score if you don't shoot....the last Pens/Caps game was really interesting, because they (Craps) were constantly shooting from all over the ice....it was easy to see that we were pretty overwhelmed by that - but hopefully it opened our eyes a little.....you get goals from shots on net - not fancy behind the back passes, and constant predictable back passes.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Ginger on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:05 pm

pfim wrote:I play fantasy hockey and watch NHL hockey. The two are completely different and I have no trouble distinguishing between the two when I have opinions on certain hockey players.

I also don't get too caught up in what others have to say about hockey players, no matter what their experience and qualifications. I have my opinions and if they're wrong, so be it.


Ditto everything you just said...for those among us suffering from ADD. :D

I hate fantasy sports, I never play them. I think it's a fact of human nature we will compare one player to another under any circumstances, whether feasible or not. If we have a favorite, he's automatically elevated in our minds. We will find ways of 'fixing' the reason to suit how we feel.

My favorite players in order are, Malkin, Ovechkin & Crosby. However, my favorite teams are, Penguins, Penguins & Penguins...see how I see it? None of it is altered by fantasy. Okay well, maybe a little, but I'm who I am, how can I change that? :wink:
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Indyman on Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:11 pm

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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby BuriesIt on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:17 pm

I agree with the statement that too much was expected of Crosby when he came into the league. Unfortunately a lot of people/experts/fans look at his production and say well he was supposed go get 150+ points a year!!! All the hype and media attention wasn't his fault, but is blamed on him.

However I disagree with the side that says Crosby is the best player in the NHL. At this point in his career, he is definitely not in my opinion. There are more complete, better players in the league right now. The advantage Crosby has is that he's this good this young, and presumably has more growing to do as a player.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:18 pm

pfim wrote:I have my opinions and if they're wrong, so be it.


They are.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby pfim on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:32 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
pfim wrote:I have my opinions and if they're wrong, so be it.


They are.


They're my opinions, technically they can't be wrong. It was a trick declaration.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:38 pm

pfim wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
pfim wrote:I have my opinions and if they're wrong, so be it.


They are.


They're my opinions, technically they can't be wrong. It was a trick declaration.


I stand by my opinion.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby brwi on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:03 pm

pfim wrote:I play fantasy hockey and watch NHL hockey. The two are completely different and I have no trouble distinguishing between the two when I have opinions on certain hockey players.



Same here. What makes a fantasy player better than another may have no relation to NHL reality. In leagues where penalty minutes is a stat, a guy who takes a lot of minor penalties like Getzlaf is even better than just his point production. Then there is the "shot" category, an area where AO is going to rule. Throw in +/- stats and you weed-out some good players who happen to be on bad teams. How much a NHL player makes doesn't mean a damn thing in fantasy hockey, but it's often discussed any other time when hockey is mentioned.

Sid went 4th overall in the league I'm in as I drafted him after AO-Malkin-Brodeur had been chosen. Anyone with half a brain in fantasy hockey is going to have talent in the first couple of rounds. It's later on in a draft and waivers where you separate the men from the scrubs. I'm killing this year as I got Kessel and Krecji at the end and they have both been on fire for half the season. Grabbing my favorite fatty Tim Thomas and Clemensen off of waivers really helped my goaltending when MAF was out and when he's struggled.

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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby brwi on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:08 pm

darkstar57 wrote:
Indyman wrote:yup - shots count :(

Sid 162
AO 314


You know what i find really funny about the AO debate when people say he is the best goal scorer in the NHL, he takes more shots then anyone else!!!! here is the proof (top 5 in goals)

AO- 31 G (314 shots)
Jeff Carter - 30 G (204 Shots)
Thomas Vanek 29 G (155 Shots)
Zach Parise 28 G (197 Shots)
Patrcik Marleau - 26 G (164 Shots)

He has taken 110 More shots then Carter and 159 more shots then Vanek!!!


AO has a very quick release and his shots are bullets. You rarely see goaltenders able to to control his shots without a rebound, so it's in his linemates best interest too for AO to fire, fire, fire the puck. You got a great shot, when the goalie stops it there is usually a decent rebound available.....you ought to be shooting non-stop!

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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby the HockeyGod on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:04 pm

darkstar57 wrote:Whats a widget? And if you reference Back to School you have to mention the triple Lindee somewhere in the post


That's a good point. The triple lindee is legendary.
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Re: How about fantasy land: The truth about Sid

Postby the HockeyGod on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:07 pm

Stevo wrote:Your whole short story could haven been summed up with....."people think crosby is overrated because he isn't that great of a fantasy hockey player"


Yeah, but that wouldn't be much fun to write :cry: . It also excludes references to Back to School and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Last edited by the HockeyGod on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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