Would sending Goligoski down...

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Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Number Nine on Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:59 pm

Help or hurt his development. I only bring this up because I noticed on TIOPS that they may be considering sending him down to WBS.

I think this would be a stupid idea, he has learned all he can at that level. He needs to learn the speed of the NHL in the defensive zone. Bench or trade Boucher and get him back in the lineup.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby beerman on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:01 pm

It would certainly be better for him to play down there than sit on the bench here. That being said he should be up here playing ahead of either of those options, at the very least until Sarge comes back.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Mongoose87 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:05 pm

Gogo has been pretty solid this year, I don't understand why he doesn't play over Boucher. But, if he isn't going to, I'd rather see him get top-pairing minutes in the AHL than sit in the box up here.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:16 pm

He'd be down there if it were up to me.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Rocket_Tocchet on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:24 pm

He's got to be playing somewhere. If it's not going to be Pittsburgh then they might as well let him play in WBS.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Matthew Monstar on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:31 pm

I'd send him down. He has some points yes but his defensive game hasn't been too good and he's not very confident on the blueline in the offensive zone. 80 percent of his shots were blocked and taken the other way for quality chances..Even on the powerplay.

He's young....give him more time or trade him
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby lifetimefan on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:35 pm

Therrian's scratching of Gologoski is puzzling at best. He has been a top performer on the PP. He has been relatively solid defensively. He should start bvefore Boucher or Eaton at this point. If Therrian is going to continue to play favorite to those two, send him to WBS. The kid needs to play on a regular basis to develop.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:43 pm

I realize that +/- isn't the be-all and end-all in determining a player's worth. But it can be used for comparison purposes within a team. Here are the Pens' defensemen:

Player +/-
1 Rob Scuderi 9
2 Alex Goligoski 7
3 Mark Eaton 2
4 Hal Gill 2
5 Philippe Boucher 1
6 Ben Lovejoy 0
7 Kristopher Letang -1
8 Brooks Orpik -4
9 Ryan Whitney -8

Now, this doesn't delve into quality of opponents. It also doesn't address when the numbers were compiled. For instance, Whitney's return coincided with the slump (chicken and egg argument), while Goligoski's ice time has steadily dwindled. Nonetheless, it seems odd to be scratching your second-best +/- guy in favor of two slower-than molasses defensemen who are well past their primes in Boucher and Gill.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Henry Hank on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:49 pm

I don't have a problem with Goligoski not playing in the NHL, I think his D is pretty weak at this stage and could use more work. The team needs to tighten up on D so he's a logical guy to scratch when you have other offensively talented guys available. I don't like him just sitting in the press box, though. It wouldn't be bad for him to go back down and play big minutes for a little while in the AHL, plus it provides some cap relief. That's one thing that's kind of puzzled me. As far as I know, they never told him to move out of the hotel so I don't know what they're keeping him around for if he's not going to play.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:58 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I don't have a problem with Goligoski not playing in the NHL, I think his D is pretty weak at this stage and could use more work. The team needs to tighten up on D so he's a logical guy to scratch when you have other offensively talented guys available. I don't like him just sitting in the press box, though. It wouldn't be bad for him to go back down and play big minutes for a little while in the AHL, plus it provides some cap relief. That's one thing that's kind of puzzled me. As far as I know, they never told him to move out of the hotel so I don't know what they're keeping him around for if he's not going to play.


Maybe he goes down when Orpik gets healthy?
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Henry Hank on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:00 pm

True, I forgot that Orpik's out. I think it's inevitable that he goes down, although I've been saying that all season. If everyone's healthy when Gonchar's back, they're up to nine defensemen. Something will have to give with a couple of them, I'd guess.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Elivenspire on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:05 pm

Goligoski should be playing up here. Unlike Boucher, I've seen him actually defend a 2 on 1 like a defender is supposed to. He isn't a physical player, but I dont see how people think Boucher's defensive game has been that much better. Gogo is a cheaper alternative at this point for a marginal (at best) difference in defensive play and an upgrade on the offense side. That aside, you don't develop in the box, so I'd rather see him in Wilkesbarre than not see him in Pittsburgh.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby npv708 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:09 pm

my D pairings go like this

Whitney-Orpik
Letang-Eaton
Scuds-Gogo

1o/1d

Letang and Eaton was a great pairing last night offensively speaking.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby PensBeerGeek on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:09 pm

Putting a waiver-exempt player in the press box for long periods of time is always a bad idea, in my opinion.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:12 pm

If the penguins +-'s doesn't show you how meaningless the stat is, I don't know what does. MInus scuderi and whitney, that list is almost a perfect ranking from bottom to top of best defensive play this year.

I guess that makes sense though, because those are the guys that are playing against top pairs.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby K2 on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:14 pm

He should absolutely be sent down if he's not going to play here. That said, Boucher should not be playing ahead of him
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:19 pm

Henry Hank wrote:True, I forgot that Orpik's out. I think it's inevitable that he goes down, although I've been saying that all season. If everyone's healthy when Gonchar's back, they're up to nine defensemen. Something will have to give with a couple of them, I'd guess.


It really sucks to be him. But no way will they regularly play more than three offensive defensemen at a time, nor should they. Whitney's return and the acquisition of Boucher meant GoGo became a spare part. Only if Whitney, Letang, Boucher, or Gonchar is injured would I expect to see Goligoski get any time if everyone's healthy.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Draftnik on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:20 pm

The empty net goals for and against need to be stripped out to provide meaningful context. Typically Crosby, Malkin, and somebody else (1, 2, or 3) are out when the Pens are playing against or with an empty net so it kind of evens out for the Forwards. On D though it is usually Whitney as the only Dman with the Pens empty net during the big losing patch. When the Pens are playing against the empty net Scuds probably picked up a few +/- since MT has defensive Dmen out to protect the 1 or 2 goal lead. Gogo probably lost a couple of +/- because he probably was the lone Dman in Whitney's role when the Pens played with an open net during Whitney's absence.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Angle on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:28 pm

lifetimefan wrote:He has been a top performer on the PP. He has been relatively solid defensively.


Wow, a top performer on a 19.5% power play is like the smartest kid on the short bus.

Furthermore, the team powerplay scored 4 goals in the last 5 games... Gog was dressed for 2 of these 5 games... one of these games the Pens were shut out on the PP, and the other game, Gogo wasn't even on the ice for the PP goal. I think his point totals (7 powerplay points) are more a function of playing with Crosby and Malkin and getting significant powerplay ice time with the injuries to Gonchar and Whitney, than an indication of skill.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby the riddler on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:30 pm

I'd rather see him sent down if he's not going to play. I don't see where he fits in when Gonchar comes back. They limited his time on the pp when he was in, and Gonchar will own all the minutes when he comes back, which is good. Goligoski has had a solid rookie season, and he has shown that he has a lot of offensive skill. He will be capable at some point to play where Gonchar is, hopefully.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Angle on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:39 pm

I tend to think that Whitney and Letang are more the future of this team's puck-moving defensemen than Gogo.... Gogo is small... he'd even make a small forward, which may limit his upside. Letang is also small, but he has a few pounds and maybe an inch or two on Gogo, not to mention he's shown a willingness to make a hit now and again. Whitney is a big guy and, if he can continue developing to the point that he can take over for Gonchar if and when he leaves, will be a very economical solution (I think he'll be making $4 million, where other top defenders make at least $5?)

I'd be an advocate of dangling Goligoski as trade bait. I'm not sure what he would bring in, but if he could bring in a long-term solution top-two line wing (especially he he's signed to a long term cheap deal), I say go for it.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby the riddler on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:49 pm

Goligoski has had limited time playing in the NHL, I don't think there is any reason to get rid of him yet. He is capable of scoring goals from the point. I don't see Whitney as a long term answer to playing Gonchar's position on the pp. Letang and Goligoski are more suited for that role than Whitney is. I think Goligoski's fate will ultimately be determined by how long Gonchar stays here.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:14 pm

Draftnik wrote:The empty net goals for and against need to be stripped out to provide meaningful context. Typically Crosby, Malkin, and somebody else (1, 2, or 3) are out when the Pens are playing against or with an empty net so it kind of evens out for the Forwards. On D though it is usually Whitney as the only Dman with the Pens empty net during the big losing patch. When the Pens are playing against the empty net Scuds probably picked up a few +/- since MT has defensive Dmen out to protect the 1 or 2 goal lead. Gogo probably lost a couple of +/- because he probably was the lone Dman in Whitney's role when the Pens played with an open net during Whitney's absence.


Good point Drafty. here are the adjusted numbers:

Player +/-
1 Alex Goligoski 10
2 Rob Scuderi 4
3 Mark Eaton 3
4 Philippe Boucher 2
4 Kristopher Letang 2
6 Ben Lovejoy 0
7 Hal Gill -1
8 Ryan Whitney -5
9 Brooks Orpik -7
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby offsides on Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:20 pm

I like Gogo but sitting around here is doing him no good.

Even strength scoring he is 10th
G-2
A-10
P-12
Power Play scoring he is 5th
G-4
A-3
P-7
Over all he is 8th on the team in scoring. He would be playing on my team, and probably will play a lot for someone if not us.
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Re: Would sending Goligoski down...

Postby ulf on Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:05 pm

we're over halfway through the season, there's no chance he'll ever be back down there, imo.
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