Interesting Kessel Stat

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Interesting Kessel Stat

Postby Mad City Mike on Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:49 am

Phil Kessel has 11 goals in 26 games for Minnesota.

Pens second round pick Michael Gergen has 12 goals in 27 games for Minnesota-Duluth.

None of Gergen's goals has come on the PP. 7 of kessel's 11 have.

Hmmmm.
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Postby Bowser on Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:13 pm

I just don't get it.

Why the "hate" for Kessel by so many people? He's not Crosby, Phil never asked to be even rated by the moron GMs to be better than him. I think he has an NHL shot and with the proper guidance, he'll be a fine NHL winger.

I don't see him flubbing one-timers like Ouellet on the power-play. If the Penguins have a chance to draft him and pass, then I'll be fine with it because I hold Chuck Grillo in high regard.

He's seen the kid play hundreds of times.
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My Opinion Changed Last Night

Postby Mad City Mike on Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:27 pm

Bowser wrote:I just don't get it.

Why the "hate" for Kessel by so many people? He's not Crosby, Phil never asked to be even rated by the moron GMs to be better than him. I think he has an NHL shot and with the proper guidance, he'll be a fine NHL winger.

I don't see him flubbing one-timers like Ouellet on the power-play. If the Penguins have a chance to draft him and pass, then I'll be fine with it because I hold Chuck Grillo in high regard.

He's seen the kid play hundreds of times.


Here is what one Badger said of his classless display:

"Maybe put your hand there for a second, but to skate around the whole rink doing that? I'm going to question his character for doing something like that," Badgers captain and Madisonian Adam Burish said. "If this were a different league, maybe somebody would have taken it a different way and taken it into their own hands."

I don't hate him, but I do think he's overrated, based on what I saw in the four games he played against Wisconsin this year.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:48 pm

Did you see the WJC in ND last year? Malkin did the same thing against Team USA. I don't recall any LGP posters blasting Malkin for the exact same thing.

Kessel is the same age as Erik Johnson, but is playing a much higher level of competition. I would have no problem if the Pens drafted EJ, but fans have to remember he is infinitely less visible playing with the NTDP. his ranking is more or less based on 6 or 7 WJC games. There is not as much visibility to pick his game apart. Kessel is playing in the league with much older players. Many guys play a year of US JR after HS so he is playing against a ton of 22/23 year olds. Guys don;t even see that many physically mature guys in CHL hockey because of the limit on overage JRs. It is laughable to see Kessel's college stats ripped, then Toews praised (not necessarily by you) as Kessel is blowing Toews away. Others like Frolik, Mueller, etc were infinitely behind Kessel at the WJC. Kessel infinitely outperformed the #2 pick behind Crosby (Bobby Ryan), Rob Schremp, and basically everybody other forward on team USA but somehow they all escape the criticism.

Like I said at the other board. I respect your opinion for at least having seem Kessel play and having seen many of his games this year versus Wisconsin and others plus the WJC I personally have been surprised at his play compared to last year in the U20 & U18 WJC. His play this season though has been light years better than any other forward eligible for the 2006 draft in spite of how he looks compared to last season. The latest Woodlief RLR column at USA Today should be required reading for all Kessel bashers.
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Postby randy on Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:03 pm

Kessel will be just another above average american player like doug weight and tkachuk, never leading or winning anything.

Why wait for him to develop? and we have enough young players. Move that pick for some established mid 20somethings that can contribute now.

Malkin wasnt 1/4 the hot dogging jag off that ovenchicken was at the WJC in ND
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:13 pm

It is ridiculous to say Kessel will be like Weight or Tkachuk. Nobody can say anything with certainty about an 18 year old. His game is much closer to Mike Modano's in terms of American players and for all we know he will be a courageous warrior like Modano when he played in the Cup finals versus Buffalo with a broken wrist.

Under the new NHL, trading high 1st round picks for mid 20 year old good players can be extremely risky with the new UFA rules. Guys will be UFAs after 7 years of NHL service, so it makes much more sense to exploit assets on entry level contracts then their 2nd contract so you have them for the full 7 years instead of trading them for guys you can only keep for a couple of years before they are eligible for UFA and max deals.

How does Ovechkin's WJC showboating change the fact that Malkin did the exact same thing Kessel did last night. I'm not ripping either player by the way and Ovechkin has turned out just fine in spite of his WJC behavior.
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Postby DelPen on Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:17 pm

I don't think it's going to matter, we are going to finish 29th and some team above us will knock us down to 3rd pick after winning the lottery and Johnson and Kessel will be gone making all of this moot.
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Postby PensFanBryan on Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:49 am

I watched some of the USA World Junior games this year and I must say I wasnt impressed with Kessel. He didnt over shadow anyone in the Tourney. He scored 1 goal! If he is as good as he is said to be he should have dominated.

There were two things I was impressed with from Kessel, his speed & his faceoff ability. I watched the game vs. Czech, the game I think Kessel scored in, and i dont think he lost a faceoff in the game. Not quite as fast as Koltsov, but he is as effective as koltsov, because he has control. Koltsov is constantly out of control.
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Postby Ron` on Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:38 am

So now based on what you just provided, is he a top 2 pick? A better Koltsov that can take draws?
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Postby Bowser on Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:59 am

I've never seen the hate for a top prospect like I have seen for Kessel. I believe one of the main reasons for it, is that he's American and the dominant Canadian press has been able to project their agenda to the unknowing masses.

I'm not going to question those who have seen the kid play but I have a good idea, he's being over analyzed to the point that Crosby was last year.
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Postby freq019 on Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:21 am

Bowser wrote:I've never seen the hate for a top prospect like I have seen for Kessel. I believe one of the main reasons for it, is that he's American and the dominant Canadian press has been able to project their agenda to the unknowing masses.

I'm not going to question those who have seen the kid play but I have a good idea, he's being over analyzed to the point that Crosby was last year.


That and he's got Lindros parents or maybe thats the press too?
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Postby Bowser on Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:26 am

I've read the things about Kessel. He's not the only kid with problematic parents. I don't even need to leave Pittsburgh to see how bad parents are, when it comes to hockey.

The Amateur Penguins were playing Mon Valley this weekend, the parents on both sides were embarrassing. Yelling for their kids to take a number, go hit another kid, etc.

Where is the organization's leadership?

Where is the common sense for parents, this is just a game.

Kessel will not be another Lindros.
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Pitts

Postby Pitts on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:19 am

DelPen wrote:I don't think it's going to matter, we are going to finish 29th and some team above us will knock us down to 3rd pick after winning the lottery and Johnson and Kessel will be gone making all of this moot.


Agreed. :( Thus we will end up With a Staal brother! :D
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Postby Pitts on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:21 am

Ron` wrote:So now based on what you just provided, is he a top 2 pick? A better Koltsov that can take draws?


I think his hands are far above where Koltsov's aren't! I would view Kessel as Crosby's finisher.
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Postby Jerez on Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:45 pm

Bowser wrote:I've never seen the hate for a top prospect like I have seen for Kessel. I believe one of the main reasons for it, is that he's American and the dominant Canadian press has been able to project their agenda to the unknowing masses.

I'm not going to question those who have seen the kid play but I have a good idea, he's being over analyzed to the point that Crosby was last year.


I don't think I'm expressing "hate" for him. But since I live in Madison these days, I guess I have a different perspective on him. He is covered a lot here, unsurprisingly. We are fans of the UW Badger hockey team, of course, and have watched most of their games, both in person and on TV. We saw Kessel play against them on TV in the fall when UW beat Minnesota both games. He didn't have a point. He didn't have much of an impact on the game. That's watching on TV, though, so you can say we might have missed some of his play.

But we went to the game on Friday, and despite Minnesota winning 5-4, Kessel still didn't have a single point. He fell a lot, he coughed up the puck a lot, he didn't make any plays to his teammates when he did have the puck. He simply did not impress at all that game. Granted, he was probably nervous. Heck, he was back in his hometown (though he hasn't played there since midget or something), where people felt he dissed UW by choosing Minnesota, and the students were booing him every time he touched the puck. But as they were quoting both Minnesota and UW players before the game, everybody has that happen to them, and they gave examples where players playing back in their hometowns (for other teams) have come up with big games in front of friends and family. Kessel didn't deliver on Friday.

We watched the game Saturday on TV, so again might have missed a lot behind the play. But Kessel wasn't a factor for most of the game. He finally scored a goal in the third period, and he acted like a ******* (is anybody other than Netwolf allowed to say that?). Yes, he's young, and yes, others have done the same (not for as long as he did, though, skating around the ice and taunting the whole crowd). But it wasn't even that spectacular of a goal. It's just that he FINALLY did score, and for that he thinks he's some big sh--stuff? Not warranted, from what I've seen.

Hey, he skates very fast. He can shoot the puck, I guess. He is still young. But I'm mostly responding to some saying he's better than Crosby. Hardly. Sid last year on a college team would have been the best player on the team -- any college team.

And when I say I don't want him on my team, it's because we have already seen what happens when a "star" player who wants to be the center of attention isn't actually the number one on the team -- he starts dying alive and quits playing. Do you really think a player with the attitude of Phil Kessel would be happy playing on the same team as Crosby and Malkin? If he were a team player the way Sid seems to be, sure, I'd take him in a flash. But he's a guy who's going to want a whole team built around him, ala Jagr, in order to be successful. And someone probably will be happy to do so. But why the Penguins? We're already building our team around Crosby, and I'm very, very happy about that.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:59 pm

Jerez wrote: He finally scored a goal in the third period, and he acted like a ******* (is anybody other than Netwolf allowed to say that?).


No. :twisted:
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:09 pm

NHL GMs and scouts were the people making the Kessel comparisons to Crosby. By all reports including a recent interview in THN Future Watch issue, Kessel is a very low key guy.

The most important thing about the Pens #1 pick is they get the best player available. Drafting the "next" Sidney Crosby might not be an option. It is much less likely as things stand right now that any of the other draft eligible prospects will approach Crosby than Kessel.

As far as comparing him to Jagr, if Kessel wins 5 Ross trophies, a Hart, a few Richards (before it was an actual award), helps the Pens win 2 Cups, and provides numerous other memorable playoff performances, I'd say the Pens ended up with a great draft pick.
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Postby Jerez on Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:35 pm

Draftnik wrote:NHL GMs and scouts were the people making the Kessel comparisons to Crosby. By all reports including a recent interview in THN Future Watch issue, Kessel is a very low key guy.



Hmmm, that's not his rep here in Madison. And the interviews I've seen, he's very, um, "confident."

Maybe he really is a nice kid. Maybe he was just "acting out" in his own backyard when the other kids were making fun of him. It happens.

As far as how good he is, I'm only relating my opinion after watching him play one game in person, three on television. I've seen Sid play three games in person, many on television. I still say Kessel has a long, long way to go in one year to reach where Crosby is now. But it's only my opinion. :D
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Postby Ron` on Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:00 pm

Eric, my opinion on kessel is not based on any American or Canadian press hype. It is my opinion formed from watching him in games and at varying levels of competition. It's not a hatred thing.

I see some selfishness and lack of developmental improvement. Consider the accelerated programs he has been involved with. There's no reason he shouldn't show improvement year to year. To me he's no better this year than last. Only thing that has changed is his age and no longer surprises teams with his "bull rushes".

I just don't see it working out as a solid top two NHL pick. If you have some great deal in the wings to trade him for, then pick him. But I suspect he will be another disappointment if the Pens pick him.
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Postby SnowPlow on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:51 pm

As a avid NCAA D1 hockey fan I follow a lot of teams and there's not exactly hatred towards Phil they just are sick of hereing about him and think he is over rated compared to other players who are better then him and they dont any attention or anything.
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Postby Reilly on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:03 pm

Erik Johnson has 0 points in college.
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