Take THAT, Bibbsy Eeyore

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Take THAT, Bibbsy Eeyore

Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:01 am

"Penguins officials have no shortage of things over which they can agonize. Like how to inject respectability into their record, and where the franchise might be based in 18 months.

But what some people outside the organization [and inside the damn TV broadcast booth] regard as goalie Marc-Andre Fleury's penchant for giving up untimely goals isn't one of them, according to coach Michel Therrien.

Fleury's reputation for performing poorly in high-pressure situations dates to the third period of the title game at the world junior championships a little more than two years ago, when a botched clearing attempt contributed to a late comeback by the United States.

And while his highly regarded Cape Breton club subsequently fizzled in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League playoffs, Fleury actually has been involved in very few high-stakes games since. Nonetheless, every time he allows a meaningful goal, be it in regular play or a shootout, someone questions his ability to perform under pressure.

What usually goes unmentioned is that Fleury is a No. 1 goalie in the NHL at an age when even the most-gifted prospects still are learning the position. And that saves he made earlier in those games often are the reason they're close when it's late.

"He's young," Therrien said. "He just turned 21 three months ago. Yes, we want him to make the key save at the right time, and he's doing that most of the time. There are going to be games when he's not able to make it, but that's part of developing young kids. If you don't put him out there, he's not going to get that experience."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06040/652573.stm

The guy is 21 friggin' years old. Is there another 21-year-old goalie in the league right now? I sure can't think of any. And who was the last guy that excelled at 21? Luongo comes to mind. DiPietro? Nope, he spent most of that year in the minors, putting up stats that weren't as good as Fleury's. Patrick Roy? His save percentage at 21 is worse than Fleury's this year, and for a far better team. So where all this crap comes from, I have no idea. Yes, he fails to make every save. What goalie doesn't? But give the kid some time here. if he giving up untimely goals at 25, then I will be concerned. Until then, just shut up![/b]
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Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:59 am

Marc Andre Fleury has become my ONLY reason to watch Pen's games. Even Crosby has dissappeared on him.
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Re: Take THAT, Bibbsy Eeyore

Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:19 am

Mad City Mike wrote:"Is there another 21-year-old goalie in the league right now? I sure can't think of any. [/b]


Hannu Toivonen
Cam Ward
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Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:22 am

Are those 2 #1's or back-ups? I ask because I'm not sure.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:23 am

Toivenen was starting in Boston until an injury, I believe.

Ward is the backup in Carolina, but plays 1 out of 3 games.

Those 2 just came to mind because of last night's game, and Car. being tops in the league.
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Postby dboss on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:11 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:Toivenen was starting in Boston until an injury, I believe.

Ward is the backup in Carolina, but plays 1 out of 3 games.

Those 2 just came to mind because of last night's game, and Car. being tops in the league.


I'm sorry, but playing 1 out of 3 games is not a #1 goalie and NOWHERE near the same load Fleury is being asked to carry. So, given Fleury's age, ability, pressure, etc. I happen to think he is doing a hell of a job. How about this question, who was the last 21 year old goalie to face 35-45 shots EVERY game, with an underacheiving team and still make as many saves as he does? I think there is much more to criticize about this team than Fleury's contributions.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:39 pm

dboss wrote:How about this question, who was the last 21 year old goalie to face 35-45 shots EVERY game, with an underacheiving team and still make as many saves as he does? I think there is much more to criticize about this team than Fleury's contributions.


Probably Luongo.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:24 pm

dboss wrote:I'm sorry, but playing 1 out of 3 games is not a #1 goalie


Right. That's why I said he's a backup.

dboss wrote: I think there is much more to criticize about this team than Fleury's contributions.


There's enough to fill up at least 20 more threads about individual players. Errey calling them out in it is what we're talking about.
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Postby dboss on Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:38 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:
dboss wrote: I think there is much more to criticize about this team than Fleury's contributions.


There's enough to fill up at least 20 more threads about individual players. Errey calling them out in it is what we're talking about.


Exactly! Which is why the last thing Errey should be criticizing game in and game out is Fleury's play. Which goes to Errey being a complete moron on TV. He displays the typical 'veteran' mentality to disparage a 21 year-old kid who is learning the ways of the NHL, but shows no ability to criticize veteran players such as LeClair, Recchi, Gonchar, etc.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:40 pm

He doesn't criticize Gonchar? Hmm.
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Postby dboss on Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:56 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:He doesn't criticize Gonchar? Hmm.


Not as much as he does with Fleury and Gonchar has been the biggest disappointment this year. I didn't see you bringing up Recchi or LeClair...Is that because you agree? If so, why doesn't he? Do you think it might have something to do with the old boys club? If he is an analyst he can't just pick on the people he has never played with previously. Come on...MT doesn't criticize Fleury and NOBODY is safe in his book.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:30 pm

Why so defensive?

Nope...I wish he would criticize the others just the same, or even more. That's exactly my point. Read my posts in this thread before you get so defensive.

By the way...MT: "There are going to be games when he's not able to make [the big save]."

Errey points out those times.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:32 pm

When was the last time you heard him criticize an opponent, though? All I ask is fairness here.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:39 pm

"Boy, the Bruins could have used that empy netter to prove they're better than the Pens. They hit the post, and that's just not how you put a team away."

When we play well enough to create any criticism to come the other way, I'll be a very happy fan.

(By the way, I'm ignoring the Kovalchuk thing, because that deserved criticism on all accounts)
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Postby dboss on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:40 pm

Not being defensive, we just have different view points and mine is obviously the correct one. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, do you ever hear him criticizing Recchi or LeClair? If not, why not? Are they playing so well that they are safe from criticism? In Errey's defense there isn't really anything for him to be positive about at this point in time, but I do think he is being grossly unfair to Fleury. He can't criticize Fleury all the time and fail to mention people that are an even larger factor in the Pens horrible play.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:55 pm

To quote a very wise man, 3 or 4 posts above this one...

"I wish he would criticize the others just the same, or even more."

I just don't think the MAF criticism is off base. Everyone deserves it. The goalie happens to come into play every game. Thibault was criticized, Tugnutt was criticized, Barrasso was criticized. They play every game, and are involved in every game-losing goal.
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Postby dboss on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:02 pm

To quote a very wise man 2 posts ago.

dboss wrote:....we just have different view points and mine is obviously the correct one. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I agree that MAF deserves criticism, not the point. The point is that he concentrates most of it on MAF and little anywhere else. MAF makes 5 game-saving goals every game, but is still Errey's target. I'm just saying he needs to sprinkle it around A LOT more than he does.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:19 pm

Right. When did I say otherwise?

Again, seems like a defensive comment for no reason?

Mr. Rendell, is that you?

Hehe, I think we're done here. Thanks.
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Postby dboss on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:22 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:Right. When did I say otherwise?

Again, seems like a defensive comment for no reason?

Mr. Rendell, is that you?

Hehe, I think we're done here. Thanks.


WHOAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! That went WAY TOO FAR!!!!
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Postby Scott on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:43 pm

Errey does a great job. I understand you all feel Fluery is the second coming...but what Errey is saying is the truth.

It is not picking on MAF. Whether this kid is a mite or a squirt, there are times when he has to shut it down.
That is the majority of the Errey comments. By the way, it is the truth. Doesnt mean MAF is no good, but those times when that happens he has to come up with that save. Thats all Bobby is saying.

Guess what...MAF would be the first one to admit that he needs to close the door when it gets tight. He would also say, yeah, Bobby is right, I wasnt playing a good angle there.

Get some thicker skin people.

P.S. Errey is critical of everyone on this team. The softness of Gonchar,,,the ill advised blind passes of Crosby...etc etc
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