I Can't Take This Anymore

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I Can't Take This Anymore

Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am

I tried to watch last night’s game to the bitter end, but I failed. I gave up watching after that perfect screen by Scuderi (Fleury’s favorite defenseman) on the third goal. I just couldn’t take it anymore , and I’m not sure how much more of this I can take. Tomorrow night, for instance, the Pens play Carolina and it conflicts with the Olympic opening ceremonies. I know which one I’ll be watching, and it ain’t the Pens. The chances of them coming within 5 goals of the Canes are nil. Anyway, what follows is an old-fashioned MCM rant. I have tried to bite my tongue all year, but I just can’t take it any more.

This is, bar none, the worst team in hockey. It is a disgrace to the uniforms they wear. There is no talent. There is no effort. There is no direction. There is no guidance. There is nothing that a normal NHL team has.

It starts at the top, and , yes, I mean the TOP. Between Mario and CP, they put this debacle of a team together. Make no mistake, Mario had at least some say in the guys they signed, and how much was offered to them. To not blame him is to have your head in the sand. But the clueless GM gets the majority of the blame. Had he been doing his job for the last 10 years, they would not have been in this predicament. Had he properly drafted and developed players, “survival modeâ€￾ would have meant selling off stars, but replacing them with young guys in the minors who were ready for NHL action. None of that happened, and why this idiot still has a job is a testament to how pervasive FOM status is. I for one, will be happy when the team is sold, so that decisions are based on merit rather than cronyism.

As for the coach, well, let’s just say right now the coach simply does not matter.
Record under Edzo: 8-17-6
Record under Therrien: 4-17-5

You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. Do I think Therrien is a good coach? No, I have seen no evidence of that. The lack of effort that got Edzo fired is becoming just as glaring now. There is still no accountability, otherwise Shane Endumbcott would not be taking up roster space. Seriously, the team I have seen out there the last week is the same team Is aw before Edzo got the boot. Don’t give me that they played Ottawa twice. Do you realize Ottawa has not won a game against a team other than the Pens in their last 6? They are not playing well at all. But the Pens made them look like the Red Army team.

And why is that? Because they have very few guys on this roster who should be playing in the NHL. Let’s look at it.

Crosby—oh yeah
Recchi—in a supporting role maybe
LeClair—yeah, right
Rita—no way
Surovy—only if he’s hot, which doesn’t happen too often
Ouellet—borderline due to inability to play 5-on-5
Malone—only when he feels like trying
Roy—maybe, but at half the salary
Boguniecki—nice supporting player
Endicott—not even AHL caliber
Armstrong—yes
Koltsov—needs to try Olympic speed skating, does not belong in the NHL
Gonchar—yes, but at half the salary
Whitney—not right now he doesn’t, he is just bad, maybe in the future
Orpik—borderline
Cross—stinks
Melichar—ditto
Jackman—ditto
Cairns—at least can play a role
Scuderi—borderline
Fleury—of course
Caron—no way

See, not much there. So we are reduced, as always, to talking about the guys in the pipeline, like Malkin, Welch, and, well, that’s about it as far as top prospects go. Where is the help going to come from? Where is the scoring going to suddenly emerge from? I just don’t see it. Malkin will help, of course, but they really don’t have one winger, either in Pittsburgh or on the way, who you can say is a goal scorer. It really is pathetic when you sit down and analyze it.

And that’s why I have lost hope, not only for this year, but for the future as well. Until this organization is cleaned out from the top down, it will be hard to rediscover that feeling of hope for the future. Because even if they have good prospects, they always seem to flop when they get to the bigs (see Whitney). That means they are either coached poorly or the organization oversells them. Either way, I have no confidence in anyone in the organization to turn this thing around, and that is what distresses me.
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Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:52 am

So, do you trade what will be a #1 or #2 overall pick for some wingers who can score, assuming a deal is out there? I say they need to look hard at that option right now. But, that trade needs to be made by a new GM. Like Rick Dudley.
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I'm with you....

Postby Penspal on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:55 am

I've been a faithful Pens fan for over 20 years, but I've started to turn off games. They simply stink and don't have a chance to win a game. Hockey is a game that usually you get the odd upset, but not with this squad. Have you considered that we are getting older (not sure how old you are, but a Pens fan for over 20 dates me) , we just don't have the patience for "this kind of thing"?

PensPal
p.s. I hate turning it off almost as much as I hate the gauranteed loss. :cry:
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Postby DelPen on Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:57 am

Things would be worse under Edzo. Instead of just being a bad team we would see a bad team with a lot of infighting and things would be downright nasty between the vets and young guys. I don't see any sniping back and forth anymore. Therrien has them all on the same page but unfortunately they are still reading the Book of Suck.

Things will not change until everyone associated with the 1991 Pens team is gone. It's time to move on.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:00 am

Pitts wrote:So, do you trade what will be a #1 or #2 overall pick for some wingers who can score, assuming a deal is out there? I say they need to look hard at that option right now. But, that trade needs to be made by a new GM. Like Rick Dudley.


If they get the top pick, they should dangle it to the Wild for Gaborik plus.
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Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:06 am

Mad City Mike wrote:
Pitts wrote:So, do you trade what will be a #1 or #2 overall pick for some wingers who can score, assuming a deal is out there? I say they need to look hard at that option right now. But, that trade needs to be made by a new GM. Like Rick Dudley.


If they get the top pick, they should dangle it to the Wild for Gaborik plus.


I'm not sure the Wild would be interested. But, if we get the #1 pick, someone's got to want Johnson enough to give a decent set of forwards and a defensive prospect maybe. I understand everyone's fascination with Johnson on this board. But, this team's GLARING weakness is total lack of offensive production. We need capable wingers to work with Crosby and Malkin. I think our defensive prospects are fairly strong. I'd rather get wingers and sign a UFA d-man for a season or two next season.
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we'll all have sore backs...

Postby penny lane on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:32 am

from carrying the franchise around mentally...financially.

Now, on espn1250 more gloom & doom that with the NHL
gambling issue it's a death to the isle of capri plan for the
penguins.

:cry: right now would be the time for a person,
Oprah/Mark Cuban to suddenly become penguin
fans and resue this franchise.

off-ice / on-ice looking for a bright light on horizen
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Postby Tocchet on Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:45 am

I understand everyone's fascination with Johnson on this board. But, this team's GLARING weakness is total lack of offensive production. We need capable wingers to work with Crosby and Malkin.

I've been saying this for about a year now. In the system, the Pens have diddly squat on the wings in terms of scorers:

Surovy -- borderline NHL talent
Ouellet -- ditto
Filewich -- jury's out
Salomansen (sp) -- not transitioning too well to the North American game up in the WHL
Anshokov -- who knows whether he'll ever leave Russia

With Crosby, Malkin, Malone, and Talbot, it seems obvious to me that Eric Christensen will be playing on the wing, so I don't know why the organ-i-zation doesn't move him there right now with WBS -- makes no sense to me at all. Stone also seems like a promising player, so he'll either take over for Malone or need to move to the wing as well.

But otherwise, this team has a dearth of top-line wingers in the system. They MUST address this deficiency early and often in this next draft.
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Postby pfim on Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:51 pm

Tocchet wrote:
I understand everyone's fascination with Johnson on this board. But, this team's GLARING weakness is total lack of offensive production. We need capable wingers to work with Crosby and Malkin.

I've been saying this for about a year now. In the system, the Pens have diddly squat on the wings in terms of scorers:

Surovy -- borderline NHL talent
Ouellet -- ditto
Filewich -- jury's out
Salomansen (sp) -- not transitioning too well to the North American game up in the WHL
Anshokov -- who knows whether he'll ever leave Russia

With Crosby, Malkin, Malone, and Talbot, it seems obvious to me that Eric Christensen will be playing on the wing, so I don't know why the organ-i-zation doesn't move him there right now with WBS -- makes no sense to me at all. Stone also seems like a promising player, so he'll either take over for Malone or need to move to the wing as well.

But otherwise, this team has a dearth of top-line wingers in the system. They MUST address this deficiency early and often in this next draft.


Johnson would fill a glaring weakness as well. I'm not saying they should take him, but saying they lack goal scoring more than a stud defenseman isn't really valid. They need both the same.
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Postby randy on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:02 pm

i have a better idea. move that top pick for one or two wingers who can play with sid now. No point taking a d whos not going to be here for 7 years
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Postby PensStarsFan on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:10 pm

This team is going to linger in the doldrums for another decade if the only option it has is to keep picking top 5'ers in the draft. Whose going to mentor the young kids and compensate for their mistakes while they learn if there's not even at least some MID-level talent?

Has any franchise ever fallen so far, so fast? When did the true downfall begin?

I never thought I'd say this, but I'd almost rather see the team move and have a prospect for improvement than continue to suck it up in Pittsburgh and wipe out all the positives onces associated with this franchise.
Last edited by PensStarsFan on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby randy on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:10 pm

And why is that? Because they have very few fans on this site who should be watching the NHL. Let’s look at it.

jerez—oh yeah
mad city mike—in a supporting role maybe
netwolf—yeah, right
bowser—no way
madden—only if he’s hot, which doesn’t happen too often
stacey—borderline due to inability to play 5-on-5
stopper40—only when he feels like trying
tikkanen—maybe, but at half the salary
judy—nice supporting player
tocchet—not even AHL caliber
geezer—yes
mountaineer—needs to try Olympic speed skating, does not belong in the NHL
d21—yes, but at half the salary
NIN—not right now he doesn’t, he is just bad, maybe in the future
gaucho—borderline
kovy27—stinks
draftnik—at least can play a role —borderline
orpikfan—of course
fastb —no way


this is just a joke :lol:
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Postby MarioLives on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:30 pm

very depressing indeed
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Postby Tocchet on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:39 pm

Johnson would fill a glaring weakness as well. I'm not saying they should take him, but saying they lack goal scoring more than a stud defenseman isn't really valid. They need both the same.

With Gonchar, Orpik, Whitney, Welch, Lannon, and Scuderi, the Pens have six guys for next year's defensive corps. Add in a Cross/Melichar/Cairns/Jackman for the seventh role. Most of those guys, plus Bissonnette and Schneider, are very young. It would be great to get an absolute stud defenseman, but with the normal time that it takes for one to develop, and the dearth of natural skill on the wing, I'd prefer to address the latter with this year's first pick.
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Re: I'm with you....

Postby Rob UK Pen on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:41 pm

Penspal wrote:...I've started to turn off games...

Me too, sadly. Which is a real shame because the Pens seem to be on almost at least once a week over here at the moment. (We have two channels which cover the NHL - showing somewhere between 4 - 5 live games a week.) With the time difference (obviously most games on the east coast start between 12.00am and 12.30pm over here) I usually end up watching the first period and then recording the rest.

However I'm finding that I'm giving up on most games way before the end, which really gets to me. But its so hard to stay with them when you know they're going to lose. The Ottawa game on Monday night being a prime example. I actually stayed up to watch the first period and a half before turning it off.
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Postby tluke53 on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:43 pm

I was present at the "game" last night. All I can say is that I couldn't wait to leave and I have never, ever felt that way about the Pens. I hate to use this analogy, but watching the Pens last night felt much like watching a Pirate game. Aside from a few nice saves I was not excited by this game at all. I can't tell you how dissapointed I was last night. I honestly don't feel like using the last two tickets of my 10 game plane. I am definitly loosing interest. :(
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A few thoughts...

Postby Stoosh on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:44 pm

Randy, thanks from sparing me from your assesment. I'm too fat to try Olympic speed skating! :)
***********
Penny lane,

People need to realize that the arena/IoC/slots deal is completely irrelevant to the situation with Tocchet. The slots license is for slots machines only with the outside chance of evenutally adding table games. There won't be a sports book or anything like that. The Tocchet situation sounds like a secondary enterprise that Tocchet may have been involved in, completely separate from the NHL or any NHL team.
***********
PensStarsFan,

I've said this before, and I'll maintain it. I'd rather have a bad NHL team to watch in Pittsburgh than no NHL team. That's strictly for selfish reasons, as I hope someday to have season tickets for me, my wife, and my kids. I'd love to have the Pens in my own proverbial backyard so that the little Stooshes can see the fabulous Sidney Crosby live and in person on a regular basis.

That said, I understand your frustration. I can deal with the team losing games, but when they lose because there's no effort, it's tough to watch or cheer for.
***********
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Postby Mad City Mike on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:47 pm

randy wrote:And why is that? Because they have very few fans on this site who should be watching the NHL. Let’s look at it. ...
this is just a joke :lol:


I guess that means admin is the idiot in charge :lol:
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Postby Tazman5099 on Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:54 pm

I DVR the games and watch them about an hour and a half after they start. When the Pens get down by 1 goal, I watch at 4x. When the Pens get down by 2 goals, I watch it at 15x. Games go by much faster and it is less painful.

I have just started watching all penalty kills at 4x. Odds are, they'll give up a goal, so why watch at regular speed. :cry:
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Thoughts on where to start...

Postby Stoosh on Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:28 pm

Tocchet did a good job in analyzing the situation with the d-men above. I'll add to that a little bit.

I think they'll send some feelers out for Gonchar at the deadline and I think they'll get some offers. But I don't expect anything coming back to outweigh keeping him here next year. This year notwithstanding, he's historically been one of the best offensive d-men in the game. We already made this mistake once with Zubov. I don't think it's wise to move him unless there's some significant prospect coming back that can help elsewhere.

Orpik and Whitney will be back. Orpik has really come around since the beginning of the year (-6 in 42 games on this club isn't bad), and I really grew to appreciate what he does on the ice when he was laid up with his injuries earlier in the year. Like Gonchar, unless some team blows them away with an offer for him, he should be back.

Welch will be up as well. There's your top four. Lannon, Scuds, Cross, Cairns, Jackman and Josephine Melichar will battle for the remaining three spots. And I'm going to throw in my dark horse here - Kris Letang. Currently playing for Val d'Or in the QMJHL, Letang was absolutely phenomenal when I saw him at camp this year (ask Spoon, Bowser, Jesse or Netwolf as well). Normally, I'd say he needs some seasoning in the minors, but with the new rules placing a priority on mobile d-men who play good physical, positional hockey, Letang could make some noise.

Offensively, we're set down the middle with Crosby, Malkin, Christensen, Talbot and Malone in the mix as possible centers. That's a fairly strong crew there. The problem is that this club is seriously lacking in wingers who can dent the twine - both here and in the system. For all of their talent, Crosby and Malkin are more playmakers than they are snipers, and those types of players need linemates who see the game the same way they see it. I love Colby Armstrong as much as anyone, but he's not the natural scorer that needs to be on a wing with Crosby.

Unfortunately, barring a trade, there's little on the way from WB/S or in the draft. Jon Filewich might be able to help there a little bit, but he's only a first-year pro at Wilkes-Barre right now. I'm not sure he'd be ready to step into top-line duty in the NHL next year. Ryan Stone is a center who might be able to move to wing. Ryan Malone's recent success at center could prompt them to deal someone like Christensen, but who knows what he could net in return. Carcillo isn't a natural scorer, and he's crazy to boot. His future is on the third line in the NHL.

Part of the reason the defense might be looking so bad this year is because the offense doesn't have enough players capable of generating chances and keeping the puck in the offensive zone. This is why I'd consider taking Kessel over Erik Johnson if we're in such a position.

I love the potential of a draftee who is already 6'4", 225 patrolling the blueline down the road for us, but that's just it. It would be down the road. To me, Johnson seems like the next generation's Chris Pronger. Pronger debuted with Hartford as a 19-year old rookie, and he was AWFUL during his first year or two. He was lost defensively. The game just moved too quick for him. He didn't begin to really establish himself until 1996-97.

Even if Johnson is NHL-ready (and I'm not sure he is), he'd likely follow a similar path. Kessel would stand to be more NHL-ready, and he'd help significantly on the offensive end.

Their other option, of course, would be to trade out of their pick, at which point I would hope they address the holes at wing.
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Postby Pitts on Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:59 pm

ziggystardust wrote:
Pitts wrote:So, do you trade what will be a #1 or #2 overall pick for some wingers who can score, assuming a deal is out there? I say they need to look hard at that option right now. But, that trade needs to be made by a new GM. Like Rick Dudley.


NO!

you have a chance at landing a true number one defenseman! why pass on that?


Uh, because we have absolutely no one who can score a goal on this team. I thought I made that abundantly clear. In fact, I think the team is making that abundantly clear.
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Postby Jamie on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:47 pm

ziggystardust wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Mad City Mike wrote:
Pitts wrote:So, do you trade what will be a #1 or #2 overall pick for some wingers who can score, assuming a deal is out there? I say they need to look hard at that option right now. But, that trade needs to be made by a new GM. Like Rick Dudley.


If they get the top pick, they should dangle it to the Wild for Gaborik plus.


I'm not sure the Wild would be interested. But, if we get the #1 pick, someone's got to want Johnson enough to give a decent set of forwards and a defensive prospect maybe. I understand everyone's fascination with Johnson on this board. But, this team's GLARING weakness is total lack of offensive production. We need capable wingers to work with Crosby and Malkin. I think our defensive prospects are fairly strong. I'd rather get wingers and sign a UFA d-man for a season or two next season.


the team has absolutely no number one option defensively. they have two top options in the system offensively.

aside from an ace goalie, nothing helps your team more than a defenseman who can do it all at an exceptional level


The terrible offense on this team is contributing to making the D look so bad. I know our D is terrible, and I am not going to argue that. But when your offense can not maintain possession in the offensive zone for more than 5 seconds at a time, ALL of the pressure is then on the D. It is then especially tough on the D, when the forwards won't collapse down into the zone to help out, which has been the case quite frequently. This team needs goal scoring wingers just as bad as as a #1 d-man.
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Postby spoon on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:39 pm

randy wrote:NIN—not right now he doesn’t, he is just bad, maybe in the future
kovy27—stinks


Man you couldnt be any more right! PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-UUUUUUUU
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