Casino Details Hidden

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Casino Details Hidden

Postby dboss on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:23 am

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune ... 22140.html

I wonder why O'Connor won't release the local impact studies??? Maybe that is what he was paid for in his campaign contributions. Slimebag! :evil:
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Postby Pitts on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:24 am

Because it's quite apparent to even the casual observer that there really is no room or traffic corridors to fit a casino and its' patronage into Station Square. But, that's where all the politcos want it to be. :D
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:29 am

All it will take is one lawsuit to get this stuff made public, I would imagine.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:34 am

This just stinks to high heaven. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why the public should not be allowed to see the details of these things before the hearings and before a selection is made. it is just more evidence that the fix is in and that SS has already got it, even if their proposal is not the best for the city. As was said above, I cannot imagine a Freedom of Information request would be denied if somebody tried it. Sure, keep confidential information secret, but you cannot tell me the public has no right to see the impact statements.
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Postby Pitts on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:39 am

"They'll be public after one of (the applicants) is accepted," said O'Connor spokesman Dick Skrinjar.

What the hell good does that do?????? Well, here we go again...more letters and phone calls! I hope someone does file a lawsuit. This in no way should be confidential information. This impacts all our lives!
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Postby Bowser on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:46 am

It is time for the Trib and PG to file a lawsuit claiming the city, county and state is blocking access to a public document.

The other question, has the city, county and state done its own economic impact for each bid? Those studies must be made public. O'Connor is doing a bang up job for Harrah's and Ratner family.
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Postby td_ice on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:48 am

Yep, Beano Cook was right when he called local politics, "organized crime".
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:52 am

CRIMINAL!

Recently there was another post on here about politicians appearing on KDKA right? (What was the hosts name again?)

Anyway, next time the mayor appears on a radio broadcast, he needs to be asked about this, again, and again, and again, until he provides answers.

Seriously, what justification could they possibly have for why these records should not be made public?

Start calling the talk shows, and writing the letters now folks. No need to mention which proposal you back, just express your outrage at the fact that these studies are not being expose to 'the light of the sun'
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:52 am

td_ice wrote:Yep, Beano Cook was right when he called local politics, "organized crime".


How about DIS-organized crime?
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Postby dboss on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:57 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:CRIMINAL!

Recently there was another post on here about politicians appearing on KDKA right? (What was the hosts name again?)

Anyway, next time the mayor appears on a radio broadcast, he needs to be asked about this, again, and again, and again, until he provides answers.

Seriously, what justification could they possibly have for why these records should not be made public?

Start calling the talk shows, and writing the letters now folks. No need to mention which proposal you back, just express your outrage at the fact that these studies are not being expose to 'the light of the sun'


I believe that Onorato's on with Marty Griffin (KDKA 1020AM) every 2nd Thursday of the month at 10am. I also know that O'Connor has recently followed suit. I believe his appearances are scheduled for the last Thursday of every month, same station, time, etc. I will try and post a reminder on the days they are scheduled to appear.
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Postby Scott on Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:28 pm

It just gets better and better with this all the time.
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Postby cojac on Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:08 pm

O'Connor needs hung upside down by his feet atop usx tower and then he talk about anything you want 8)
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Postby Jamie on Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:41 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:All it will take is one lawsuit to get this stuff made public, I would imagine.


I don't even think it will take a law suit. Just the right person to fill out the appropriate paper work for subpoena.
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Postby BurghThing on Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:53 pm

I just emailed Conte:

With reguards to your column today "Casino details hidden", I sincerely hope your paper is filing lawsuit to make these documents public as soon as possible. It is the responsibility of the press to be the watchdogs of our society.

I think if enough of us ask the news outlets, we'll see the documents.
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Postby Tocchet on Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:32 pm

"They'll be public after one of (the applicants) is accepted," said O'Connor spokesman Dick Skrinjar.

I've heard that O'Connor is one of the dumbest people in Pittsburgh, and it seems like he surrounded himself with equally stupid staff members.

Not to get all legal on y'all, but I'm not sure whether these private impact studies become a "public record" under the Pennsylvania Right to Know Law ("Law") simply because the city government now possesses them.

Under the Law, a public record is defined as "any account, voucher or contract dealing with the receipt or disbursement of funds by an agency or its acquisition, use or disposal of services or of supplies, materials, equipment or property." The term also includes "any minute, order or decision by an agency fixing the personal or property rights, privileges, immunities, duties or obligations of any person or group of persons," or any documents "closely connected" to any of the above.

Here, the impact studies were performed by private entities, not public ones, and such studies would not be deemed a minute, order or decision. Without qualifying as a "public record" in the first place, the Law will not apply.

That all being said, public pressure, especially by the local newspaper and media organizations, is the best way to obtain access. The outrageous and illogical stance being held by O'Connor -- no access until AFTER a decision is made -- needs to be called out to ensure that this information is out there for public consumption.

If I had the time, I'd look into another issue related hereto -- whether the failure to provide these impact studies before allowing public comments is somehow a violation of Pennsylvania's Administrative Procedures Act ("APA"). It just seems ridiculous to have a public comment hearing on an issue when that issue is not fully disclosed; it makes the hearing nothing more than a meaningless charade, and I would hope that the APA prevents such a result.
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Don't hold your breath

Postby HomerPenguin on Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:25 pm

The PG is still as far as I can tell clearly anti-arena. They printed Myron Cope's letter because it was written by Myron Cope, and it's nice that their associate editor came out in favor of an arena but that doesn't mean the paper is going to bust its hump attacking a guy they backed for mayor. I guess the Trib could be convinced to apply some pressure if you told them that the studies also prove that the Clintons ran drugs through Mena Airport in the 1980s, but absent that I don't think they have much of a dog in this hunt. Even if it would damage O'Connor, there's a better chance that I'll be elected pope than that a Republican will ever be elected mayor of Pittsburgh.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:32 pm

I'm not so sure about the PG. They had an editorial a while ago in favor of an arena, and another one last week that said what a great decision it was to build the other two stadiums, even though it was unpopular at the time. They have printed numerous pro-Pens letters to the editor, and at the end of the day they are the ones that decide what letters get printed. They are historically a Democratic mouthpiece, but on this issue they've given close to equal time on the editorial pages.
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Postby dboss on Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:41 pm

BurghThing wrote:I just emailed Conte:

With reguards to your column today "Casino details hidden", I sincerely hope your paper is filing lawsuit to make these documents public as soon as possible. It is the responsibility of the press to be the watchdogs of our society.

I think if enough of us ask the news outlets, we'll see the documents.


Any response from Conte?
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Postby BurghThing on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:19 pm

Nothing yet, but here's another thought I just had.

These studies were part of the submitted proposals, correct? Why don't the Pens/IoC make theirs available to the public and force the Cleveland group's hand?

And yes, to everyone I talk to I make sure I emphasize that they are a Cleveland group, who will take money earned here and funnel it back to Cleveland.
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Postby Pitts on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:24 pm

BurghThing wrote:And yes, to everyone I talk to I make sure I emphasize that they are a Cleveland group, who will take money earned here and funnel it back to Cleveland.


That is a key point I use whenever I talk to any about this issue.
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Postby Admin on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:28 pm

BurghThing wrote:And yes, to everyone I talk to I make sure I emphasize that they are a Cleveland group, who will take money earned here and funnel it back to Cleveland.

I'm not sure I see this distinction. IoC isn't Pittsburgh-based either.
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Postby Tocchet on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:31 pm

These studies were part of the submitted proposals, correct? Why don't the Pens/IoC make theirs available to the public and force the Cleveland group's hand?

Excellent point, unless the Pens/IoC impact study also has some ugliness to it which could be used against them. If it does not, this is a great idea and could really paint the Station Square group into a corner.
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Postby BurghThing on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:37 pm

Admin wrote:
BurghThing wrote:And yes, to everyone I talk to I make sure I emphasize that they are a Cleveland group, who will take money earned here and funnel it back to Cleveland.

I'm not sure I see this distinction. IoC isn't Pittsburgh-based either.


No they aren't based in Pittsburgh, but:

A) they ARE willing to GIVE the city a free MUF (at least I think thats the buss-acronym of the day)

and

2) they aren't from CLEVELAND, home of the scummy browns (nuff said)
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:39 pm

To be honest, since the impact studies are penned by the bidders themselves, NONE of them are going to contain any 'smoking guns'.

The real issue is that the process has become so political that the politicians think they can actually get away with keeping information from the public. That they don't need to be accountable.

First thing that needs to be done is to use this issue to teach the politicians a lessson. NO YOU CAN NOT SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS. We demand that you act in the best interest of the public at large, not in your own self interest.

I have no problem with the best proposal winning... If that ends up being Forest City, then Shame on the Pens and IoC.

But let's make sure that the winner is what's best for PITTSBURGH. Not Harrisburg, not Philthy, and certainly not CLEVELAND.

PITTSBURGH FIRST - Because Pittsburgh takes care of it's own!

Edited additon: These politicians have screwed up the city of Pittsburgh so bad that I'll never have the opportunity to move back home. I'm getting more and more bitter everyday over this.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:42 pm

td_ice wrote:Yep, Beano Cook was right when he called local politics, "organized crime".


Beano Cook is a silly old queen who hasn't had an original thought in 30 years.
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